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  1. #441
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Macon, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeTrinity11 View Post
    I don't follow your line of reasoning here. High school recruiting rankings are most definitely created to measure immediate college impact and are based on current skill level and not potential down the line.
    I think it depends on the site and who is doing the rankings. Jerry Meyer at 247 has said that five star prospects on their site are absolutely rated based off NBA potential. May be different for the other sites.

  2. #442
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Richmond, Va
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    This is a valid point. A lot of kids are delusional.

    Remember, Michael Gbinije once gave in an interview where he claimed that one of the major reasons that he left Duke was that he thought he was a one-and-done talent and that Coach K held him back. He was the No. 28 player in the draft. After sitting out a year at Syracuse, he averaged 3.4 points a year. Finally, as a fifth year senior, he broke out and became a top player. He ended up being drafted No. 49 in the second round. As a rookie, he spent almost his entire season in the NBDL. He played all of nine games for Detroit.

    I don't go into this to trash Gbinije, only to point out how delusional many kids are.

    The trick in recruiting is to avoid kids with this mindset. But I don't know how you do that.
    I think a lot of kids don't realize that size is a whole different animal in the NBA, as in a 6'6" SF in college is undersized to play the same position at the next level and therefore becomes a "tweener" and unless is incredibly talented is likely to struggle. A 6'9" college center will need to play PF in the NBA. Generally, that's a different skill-set. It happens, but more often it doesn't. Michael was a very good player here at Benedictine, but I thought he was marginal to crack our starting line-up; he wasn't a great outside shooter and undersized to play inside. Very good athlete, but I doubt he does much in the NBA. Hope he does!!

  3. #443
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dallas, TX

    Scout.com new rankings

    http://www.scout.com/college/basketb...ball-prospects

    Tre Jones's huge summer sprang his ranking all the way up to #7 overall, just ahead of Darius Garland. Jones is now the #1 point guard in the class according to Scout.

    Duke is involved with 6 of Scout's top 8 . . .

    #1 Marvin Bagley
    #3 Zion Williamson
    #4 Cameron Reddish
    #5 Romeo Langford
    #7 Tre Jones
    #8 Darius Garland

    This class has some serious potential to be explosive if we can land 3 or 4 of those guys.

    Other players on the Duke radar:

    #20 Emmitt Williams
    #63 Jarius Hamilton
    #69 Cole Swider
    #68 David McCormack

  4. #444
    Can Cole Swider be the next Kyle Singer ?

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Ha! Roy "backed off because Hamilton had a terrible summer" only makes sense once the summer has actually happened. The vast majority of the important AAU tournaments and showcases haven't even happened yet.
    This is not a fair comment and shows extreme bias. The Nike EYBL and the Adidas leagues already happened. Clearly enough has happened that Scout felt comfortable updating their rankings and we are all swooning over Tre's jump to #7 overall and #1 PG, not mention being named MVP of the EYBL. I don't see folks here downplaying that based on a lack of summer activity. Everyone is commenting on how great he has been this summer.

    But to address your core point: sure, there are more tournaments to come and Scout's updates do seem early, but there has been a flurry of activity so far and enough action to cause reasonable people to lean in more or less on certain players based on that large cluster of games, ourselves included.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pghdukie View Post
    Can Cole Swider be the next Kyle Singer ?
    Are you serious or was this sarcasm--I have to assume you are serious, at which point my answer is: "Probably not," or really "no freaking way."

    Kyle was a top 5-10 recruit (RSCI #6), Cole is ranked in the 60-100 range. Based on this alone you would think Cole's impact at Duke will be far less than Kyle's--as we've discussed ad nauseum, a guy with that type of ranking is a virtual lock to ride the pine his frosh year and potentially not contribute until he is an upperclassmen, and even then likely as role player.

    Kyle's resume is also VERY strong:
    - Started all but 1 game in 4 years, which is very rare
    - 4th leading scorer in Duke history, just 68 pts behind Laettner
    - 7 leading rebounder in Duke history
    - Final 4 MOP

    Maybe they have similar games (i don't know if that's even true), but based on his ranking alone its extremely unlikely if not virtually impossible that Cole will have the same impact at Duke that Kyle did. Then you look at Kyle's resume and its highly, highly, highly unlikely.

    So no, he won't be the next Kyle.

  6. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by Pghdukie View Post
    Can Cole Swider be the next Kyle Singer ?
    I just got a chance for the first time to see Swider Wednesday -- playing on the same AAU team as David McCormick.

    Singler is a poor comparison. Swider is a very slender, almost frail, 6-8 shooter. Right now that's about all he does well (except maybe to run the floor). I know it's dangerous to read too much into two games, but Swider was almost useless inside. He has a so-so handle, but appeared to have very good hands.

    He does have a BEAUTIFUL shot -- his form is perfect. He gets it off quickly and from a very high launch point. He made 3 of 4 3s in the time I watched him.

    A better Duke comp would be Ryan Kelly (especially early in his career). I know Kelly was ranked a good deal higher. I know cross-racial comps are frowned upon, but he's also very similar to Cameron Johnson, who just transferred from Pitt to UNC.

    McCormick looked very good, very strong. He's lost 40 pounds from his top weight and is now a lean, muscular 265 points. He runs the court well and has a great rebounding arch (he can get a ball that doesn't come right to him).

    I also got to see a number of 2019 prospects that Duke is interested in (they have not offered anybody in the class yet).

    I liked Cole Anthony (the son of the 1991 UNLV point guard) from Archbishop Malloy in New York. He's not a great athlete, but he's amazingly poised and even-keeled for a kid who just finished his sophomore season. I thought he looked like a senior playmaker.

    Matthew Hurt, the 6-10 2019 prospect from Minnesota looks a lot like Swider, except he's much, MUCH tougher inside. A legit 6-10 with a deadly 3-point shot (that he launches even higher than Swider).

    I'll get to see some more 2019 targets Thursday -- the 2018 field is weak because the top guys are all at the U19 tryouts in Colorado Springs. But the 2019 field is VERY good.

  7. #447
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    I just got a chance for the first time to see Swider Wednesday -- playing on the same AAU team as David McCormick.

    Singler is a poor comparison. Swider is a very slender, almost frail, 6-8 shooter. Right now that's about all he does well (except maybe to run the floor). I know it's dangerous to read too much into two games, but Swider was almost useless inside. He has a so-so handle, but appeared to have very good hands.
    He can't be compared to Singler because (a) Kyle was a rough-and-tough football player in HS and (b) Cole has MUCH better hair than Kyle.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  8. #448
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by Pghdukie View Post
    Can Cole Swider be the next Kyle Singer ?
    Remember when we all thought Alex Murphy was the next Kyle? That didn't work out . . .

  9. #449
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    He can't be compared to Singler because (a) Kyle was a rough-and-tough football player in HS and (b) Cole has MUCH better hair than Kyle.
    But can he comb his hair while playing and average 20+ ppg as Luke did? GoDuke!

  10. #450
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    Remember when we all thought Alex Murphy was the next Kyle? That didn't work out . . .
    after years of hoop comparisons, I'm convinced that no one is the next anyone.

  11. #451
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    after years of hoop comparisons, I'm convinced that no one is the next anyone.
    You got that right. 'Nough said!

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    I also got to see a number of 2019 prospects that Duke is interested in (they have not offered anybody in the class yet).

    I liked Cole Anthony (the son of the 1991 UNLV point guard) from Archbishop Malloy in New York. He's not a great athlete, but he's amazingly poised and even-keeled for a kid who just finished his sophomore season. I thought he looked like a senior playmaker.

    Matthew Hurt, the 6-10 2019 prospect from Minnesota looks a lot like Swider, except he's much, MUCH tougher inside. A legit 6-10 with a deadly 3-point shot (that he launches even higher than Swider).

    I'll get to see some more 2019 targets Thursday -- the 2018 field is weak because the top guys are all at the U19 tryouts in Colorado Springs. But the 2019 field is VERY good.
    I have to imagine there is little to no chance Greg would let his son attend Duke, no? Would seem about as close to an anti-lock as possible. That guy LOVES to trash Duke

  13. #453
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    He can't be compared to Singler because (a) Kyle was a rough-and-tough football player in HS and (b) Cole has MUCH better hair than Kyle.
    Trump has better hair than Singler

    (NOTE: this isn't a politically charged statement. I'm merely commenting on the physical feature of a prominent figure).
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  14. #454
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    I just got a chance for the first time to see Swider Wednesday -- playing on the same AAU team as David McCormick.

    Singler is a poor comparison. Swider is a very slender, almost frail, 6-8 shooter. Right now that's about all he does well (except maybe to run the floor). I know it's dangerous to read too much into two games, but Swider was almost useless inside. He has a so-so handle, but appeared to have very good hands.

    He does have a BEAUTIFUL shot -- his form is perfect. He gets it off quickly and from a very high launch point. He made 3 of 4 3s in the time I watched him.

    A better Duke comp would be Ryan Kelly (especially early in his career). I know Kelly was ranked a good deal higher. I know cross-racial comps are frowned upon, but he's also very similar to Cameron Johnson, who just transferred from Pitt to UNC.

    McCormick looked very good, very strong. He's lost 40 pounds from his top weight and is now a lean, muscular 265 points. He runs the court well and has a great rebounding arch (he can get a ball that doesn't come right to him).

    I also got to see a number of 2019 prospects that Duke is interested in (they have not offered anybody in the class yet).

    I liked Cole Anthony (the son of the 1991 UNLV point guard) from Archbishop Malloy in New York. He's not a great athlete, but he's amazingly poised and even-keeled for a kid who just finished his sophomore season. I thought he looked like a senior playmaker.

    Matthew Hurt, the 6-10 2019 prospect from Minnesota looks a lot like Swider, except he's much, MUCH tougher inside. A legit 6-10 with a deadly 3-point shot (that he launches even higher than Swider).

    I'll get to see some more 2019 targets Thursday -- the 2018 field is weak because the top guys are all at the U19 tryouts in Colorado Springs. But the 2019 field is VERY good.
    Thanks for the info.

    I don't like comparisons and even less like comparisons based on players I've never seen, but based on your description, Swider sounds like a taller Andre Dawkins.

  15. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Trump has better hair than Singler

    (NOTE: this isn't a politically charged statement. I'm merely commenting on the physical feature of a prominent figure).
    Luke's hair is more frequently tended to than anyone else on the planet.

  16. #456
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    after years of hoop comparisons, I'm convinced that no one is the next anyone.
    Plus Tax. We like to remind ourselves How smart we think we are.

  17. #457
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    Thanks for the info.

    I don't like comparisons and even less like comparisons based on players I've never seen, but based on your description, Swider sounds like a taller Andre Dawkins.
    You are right to be wary of comps.

    When I compared Swider to Ryan Kelly and Cam Johnson, I was just trying to give you a sense of their games. Not saying that he will be as good as Kelly or that he can't be better than Cam Johnson.

    The one thing we can't see watching AAU or high school ball is his work ethic or his inner fire.

    Watching Matthew Hurt use his quick hands inside for a steal in traffic, I was immediately reminded of Christian Laettner -- who was the same size and also had an effective 3-point shot and had an amazing knack of using his hands in traffic. Would I compare Hurt to Laettner? No -- no way to project the intensity and toughness that Christian brought to the game.

    But stylistically, there is a similarity.

    PS One tidbit about Singler -- he started more wins than anybody in college basketball history. Several players (including Shane Battier) PLAYED in more wins ... but Singler started more often than any of them.

  18. #458
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    after years of hoop comparisons, I'm convinced that no one is the next anyone.
    Are you sure Harold Miner isn't the next Jordan. (He had some sweet dunks, rock the cradle?)

  19. #459
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    after years of hoop comparisons, I'm convinced that no one is the next anyone.
    With opinions like that, you could be the next Colin Cowherd ...

  20. #460
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    You are right to be wary of comps.

    When I compared Swider to Ryan Kelly and Cam Johnson, I was just trying to give you a sense of their games. Not saying that he will be as good as Kelly or that he can't be better than Cam Johnson.

    The one thing we can't see watching AAU or high school ball is his work ethic or his inner fire.

    Watching Matthew Hurt use his quick hands inside for a steal in traffic, I was immediately reminded of Christian Laettner -- who was the same size and also had an effective 3-point shot and had an amazing knack of using his hands in traffic. Would I compare Hurt to Laettner? No -- no way to project the intensity and toughness that Christian brought to the game.

    But stylistically, there is a similarity.

    PS One tidbit about Singler -- he started more wins than anybody in college basketball history. Several players (including Shane Battier) PLAYED in more wins ... but Singler started more often than any of them.
    You mean every 6'8" ish white guy that Duke is interested in *doesn't* necessarily compare to Kyle Singler? Weird.

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