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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK View Post
    So are we judging cred by time on this board?
    Well, yes. That and sporks.

    Look, you seem to be a big fan and that's great. So is everyone else on here. But I will admit that I do look askance at anyone who comes in and immediately starts making waves. I guess maybe it isn't fair, but we get LOTS of people who pop on for short periods of time, say outrageous things or outright trolls the community, and then magically disappear.

    Additionally, you were addressing the "I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.ing" on this board and discussing it with someone who's been here ten years. I'm far more inclined to take the perspective of someone who has been here since its inception.

    This board is the testiest I have ever seen it this season. Lots of overwhelming reactionary BS after each play, much less each game. Along with our high expectations and high level recruits comes some of the nastier sides of fandom that seem to expect perfection from our team in all its forms. And yes, to me, that seems "I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.y," compared to some of our other teams.

    Carry on, and welcome to the community. But don't be surprised if people roll their eyes when someone new to the board starts talking about Big Picture Perspectives.
    Let's go Duke!

  2. #162
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC

    Chloe Kim, the Olympics, and what we want to see from this team

    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    I think part of the reason people complain is that we have yet to really blow anyone (of any consequence) out. Pitt twice and Wake once are the only games that come close and those are two bad teams. It is easier to look past letting off the gas or having to claw back from a deficit against an overmatched team if you can look to dominant performances, but in our case getting down early or getting up and letting teams back into the game has been almost universal. We have dominant stretches but have yet to have a dominant game (against a decent P5 opponent). I think that is where the complaints come from.
    I was thinking about this last night, as I watched snowboarder Chloe Kim win a gold medal. Long story short, her first run ran away from the rest of the field and, by the time it was time for her last run, she had already clinched the gold medal. So, in her "glory run", which, again, was unnecessary for her victory, she bested her ALREADY GOLD MEDAL WINNING SCORE by a margin close to (I haven't looked at the exact score yet) the distance between her first score, and the second place finisher.

    That's what I think people here want to see. It's been the exception, not the rule, that we build a working margin of 10-15 and then expand it. And that's before substitutions, etc. Anyway, a convincing win over a good team when we build lead and don't hang on by our fingernails would be helpful - until the next game when we go on a 7 minute scoring drought and play a team with less talent but more experience in a +/- 3 point contest...

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by dyedwab View Post
    I was thinking about this last night, as I watched snowboarder Chloe Kim win a gold medal. Long story short, her first run ran away from the rest of the field and, by the time it was time for her last run, she had already clinched the gold medal. So, in her "glory run", which, again, was unnecessary for her victory, she bested her ALREADY GOLD MEDAL WINNING SCORE by a margin close to (I haven't looked at the exact score yet) the distance between her first score, and the second place finisher.

    That's what I think people here want to see. It's been the exception, not the rule, that we build a working margin of 10-15 and then expand it. And that's before substitutions, etc. Anyway, a convincing win over a good team when we build lead and don't hang on by our fingernails would be helpful - until the next game when we go on a 7 minute scoring drought and play a team with less talent but more experience in a +/- 3 point contest...
    This is what I have been waiting for all season. I'm just not so committed to this possibility that I'm disappointed every game that is DOESN'T happen. I still say even odds that we do this once in the next three weeks, likely against a good team.
    Let's go Duke!

  4. #164
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Well, yes. That and sporks.

    Look, you seem to be a big fan and that's great. So is everyone else on here. But I will admit that I do look askance at anyone who comes in and immediately starts making waves. I guess maybe it isn't fair, but we get LOTS of people who pop on for short periods of time, say outrageous things or outright trolls the community, and then magically disappear.

    Additionally, you were addressing the "I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.ing" on this board and discussing it with someone who's been here ten years. I'm far more inclined to take the perspective of someone who has been here since its inception.

    This board is the testiest I have ever seen it this season. Lots of overwhelming reactionary BS after each play, much less each game. Along with our high expectations and high level recruits comes some of the nastier sides of fandom that seem to expect perfection from our team in all its forms. And yes, to me, that seems "I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.y," compared to some of our other teams.

    Carry on, and welcome to the community. But don't be surprised if people roll their eyes when someone new to the board starts talking about Big Picture Perspectives.
    I don't even know how long I've been reading and posting on DBR (around 20 years now) but in regards to the bolded section above: Mtn.Devil is right. I don't know if it's just a sign of the times but DBR is not super friendly right now. It's still my favorite place to talk Duke hoops but I haven't looked around for a long time. I joined a few Facebook pages that discuss the team and they are downright awful and full of idiots. The discourse here on DBR is not as polite as it used to be and I swear if I see one more condescending post where someone claims an opinion is false because they don't have some obscure stat to back it up...

    One thing to always remember, that I think gets forgotten around here: if you must attack, attack the subject being posted, not the poster.
    Of course, don't come on here and expect to get instant respect. It's earned here just like everywhere else. That's just life.
    Listen to Herm Edwards and "Don't hit send". I can't count how many replies I've typed and then just dumped.

    Hope everyone has a great day.

  5. #165
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by elvis14 View Post
    I don't even know how long I've been reading and posting on DBR (around 20 years now) but in regards to the bolded section above: Mtn.Devil is right. I don't know if it's just a sign of the times but DBR is not super friendly right now. It's still my favorite place to talk Duke hoops but I haven't looked around for a long time. I joined a few Facebook pages that discuss the team and they are downright awful and full of idiots. The discourse here on DBR is not as polite as it used to be and I swear if I see one more condescending post where someone claims an opinion is false because they don't have some obscure stat to back it up...

    One thing to always remember, that I think gets forgotten around here: if you must attack, attack the subject being posted, not the poster.
    Of course, don't come on here and expect to get instant respect. It's earned here just like everywhere else. That's just life.
    Listen to Herm Edwards and "Don't hit send". I can't count how many replies I've typed and then just dumped.

    Hope everyone has a great day.
    Oh yeah??!? Well, ummmm...., your mom!!!
    "We are not provided with wisdom, we must discover it for ourselves, after a journey through the wilderness which no one else can take for us, an effort which no one can spare us, for our wisdom is the point of view from which we come at last to regard the world." --M. Proust

  6. #166
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    Oh yeah??!? Well, ummmm..., your mom!!!
    Thanks, that honesty made me laugh. My mom's pissed though so you might want to watch your back! (4'10" of quiet fury and that disappointing look we all hate to get).

  7. #167
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Northwest Indiana
    Quote Originally Posted by elvis14 View Post
    I don't even know how long I've been reading and posting on DBR (around 20 years now) but in regards to the bolded section above: Mtn.Devil is right. I don't know if it's just a sign of the times but DBR is not super friendly right now. It's still my favorite place to talk Duke hoops but I haven't looked around for a long time. I joined a few Facebook pages that discuss the team and they are downright awful and full of idiots. The discourse here on DBR is not as polite as it used to be and I swear if I see one more condescending post where someone claims an opinion is false because they don't have some obscure stat to back it up...
    I did that last year prior to the season's start, and it took me 3 games to exit the group. Reminded me of watching high school football in the stands after coaching on the sidelines for a few years; the general lack of knowledge of the game was astounding.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    This board is the testiest I have ever seen it this season. Lots of overwhelming reactionary BS after each play, much less each game. Along with our high expectations and high level recruits comes some of the nastier sides of fandom that seem to expect perfection from our team in all its forms. And yes, to me, that seems "I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.y," compared to some of our other teams.
    Yea I can remember a few times when the mood here was a little rough. The end of the 2007 season comes to mind, or the days right after the now-infamous Skype announcement. I don't think I can remember a time, though, when the expectations (some) people had of the team were so exaggerated. We seem to expect near-robotic precision and dominance. I wonder if, despite our experience last season, people still get pulled in by all the recruiting hype and expect that to translate into a super-team. 1999 was a LOT of fun until the end but the idea of just rolling everyone in sight with a team full of freshmen, even very talented and hyped freshmen, was never realistic.

  9. #169
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    Yea I can remember a few times when the mood here was a little rough. The end of the 2007 season comes to mind, or the days right after the now-infamous Skype announcement. I don't think I can remember a time, though, when the expectations (some) people had of the team were so exaggerated. We seem to expect near-robotic precision and dominance. I wonder if, despite our experience last season, people still get pulled in by all the recruiting hype and expect that to translate into a super-team. 1999 was a LOT of fun until the end but the idea of just rolling everyone in sight with a team full of freshmen, even very talented and hyped freshmen, was never realistic.
    It's a good thing the internet did not exist when Bobby Hurley was a freshman.

  10. #170
    I find it really detracts from my personal ability to enjoy the individual games and moments. Not that the board is in any way responsible for my enjoyment of Duke basketball, I just feel the mood has shifted away from having fun to focusing on the next recruiting class while this one is still learning to play defense.

  11. #171
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    Yea I can remember a few times when the mood here was a little rough. The end of the 2007 season comes to mind, or the days right after the now-infamous Skype announcement. I don't think I can remember a time, though, when the expectations (some) people had of the team were so exaggerated. We seem to expect near-robotic precision and dominance. I wonder if, despite our experience last season, people still get pulled in by all the recruiting hype and expect that to translate into a super-team. 1999 was a LOT of fun until the end but the idea of just rolling everyone in sight with a team full of freshmen, even very talented and hyped freshmen, was never realistic.
    I remember 2015 being pretty ridiculous, too.

  12. #172
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    The worst thing to happen to us as fans was that preseason #1 ranking, which was largely buoyed by Bagley committing so late and overestimation of the freshmen in general. Had we started the season ranked #10 and projected to finish #2 in the conference, a far more reasonable expectation for a team full of freshmen, I don’t think fans would be so up in arms right now.

    And BTW I remember Coach K specifically stating at the start of the season that the media likes to overrate us so that they can act happy when we “fail.” Maybe he knew what he was talking about.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    I remember 2015 being pretty ridiculous, too.
    To me, one of the worst years was 2010. The constant criticism of Lance Thomas and Brian Zoubek and how they should both be benched immediately so we wouldn't be playing "three on five" on offense. How Jon Scheyer might have good stats but the team couldn't win without a "real" point guard. How Coach K couldn't recruit anymore. How we just didn't have enough NBA players to be a championship team. I remember at the Final Four thinking how sweet it was to win after all that negativity all season and maybe the win would finally put all the negative Nellies in their place.

    Now, of course, the team's problem is it isn't exactly like the 2010 team. I guess I should have seen that coming.

  14. #174
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    The worst thing to happen to us as fans was that preseason #1 ranking, which was largely buoyed by Bagley committing so late and overestimation of the freshmen in general. Had we started the season ranked #10 and projected to finish #2 in the conference, a far more reasonable expectation for a team full of freshmen, I don’t think fans would be so up in arms right now.

    And BTW I remember Coach K specifically stating at the start of the season that the media likes to overrate us so that they can act happy when we “fail.” Maybe he knew what he was talking about.
    How dare you accuse the polls or this board of being concerned with reasonable expectations
    1200. DDMF.

  15. #175
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    To me, one of the worst years was 2010. The constant criticism of Lance Thomas and Brian Zoubek and how they should both be benched immediately so we wouldn't be playing "three on five" on offense. How Jon Scheyer might have good stats but the team couldn't win without a "real" point guard. How Coach K couldn't recruit anymore. How we just didn't have enough NBA players to be a championship team. I remember at the Final Four thinking how sweet it was to win after all that negativity all season and maybe the win would finally put all the negative Nellies in their place.

    Now, of course, the team's problem is it isn't exactly like the 2010 team. I guess I should have seen that coming.
    2015 was complaining about one and dones (sound familiar?) and Matt Jones, Rasheed Sulaimon and Amile not having an outside shot.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    2015 was complaining about one and dones (sound familiar?) and Matt Jones, Rasheed Sulaimon and Amile not having an outside shot.
    Yeah, I remember. And about being incapable of playing defense. And about Tyus Jones not being good enough to be the PG on a championship team. (I suppose that was before he was deified.)

  17. #177
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    To me, one of the worst years was 2010. The constant criticism of Lance Thomas and Brian Zoubek and how they should both be benched immediately so we wouldn't be playing "three on five" on offense. How Jon Scheyer might have good stats but the team couldn't win without a "real" point guard. How Coach K couldn't recruit anymore. How we just didn't have enough NBA players to be a championship team. I remember at the Final Four thinking how sweet it was to win after all that negativity all season and maybe the win would finally put all the negative Nellies in their place.

    Now, of course, the team's problem is it isn't exactly like the 2010 team. I guess I should have seen that coming.
    Lance Thomas improved as much as anyone in his career. His senior year he was the best defender on the team and he could guard the 1-4 positions very well. He even began to hit a few mid-range jumpers. As for Zoubs, he was tremendous the last part of that season. He blocked shots and was great at offensive rebounding. If memory serves me correctly, he was really good at getting the offensive board and kicking it out for 3s. Now remember, this is all from this old memory bank, which ain't what it used to be. GoDuke!

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    To me, one of the worst years was 2010. The constant criticism of Lance Thomas and Brian Zoubek and how they should both be benched immediately so we wouldn't be playing "three on five" on offense. How Jon Scheyer might have good stats but the team couldn't win without a "real" point guard. How Coach K couldn't recruit anymore. How we just didn't have enough NBA players to be a championship team. I remember at the Final Four thinking how sweet it was to win after all that negativity all season and maybe the win would finally put all the negative Nellies in their place.

    Now, of course, the team's problem is it isn't exactly like the 2010 team. I guess I should have seen that coming.
    But don't you remember? We won only because the NCAA fixed it so we would avoid all the tough teams.

  19. #179
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    NC Raised, DC Resident
    Quote Originally Posted by dyedwab View Post
    ...That's what I think people here want to see. It's been the exception, not the rule, that we build a working margin of 10-15 and then expand it. And that's before substitutions, etc. Anyway, a convincing win over a good team when we build lead and don't hang on by our fingernails would be helpful - until the next game when we go on a 7 minute scoring drought and play a team with less talent but more experience in a +/- 3 point contest...
    It may just be my eye test playing tricks on me, because I haven't done an empirical analysis of game flow, but there seems to be a very prevalent in-game trend for this team this season (roughly):
    First third: Play well, move the ball, build a comfortable double-digit lead, look the part of the more talented team on the court
    Second Third: Go away from what built the lead (start taking more long jumpers or run stagnant post-up plays), play more individual ball, more zero- or one-pass possessions, stale offense negatively impacts defense--lose the double digit lead, go down comfortably by high single- or double-digits
    Last Third: Use the talent surplus and intensity (or whatever) to get a few stops and run efficient offense to catch up, frequently taking a small lead or closing to a one or two possession deficit...either win a close game or lose a close game.

    End scene. Cue the reaction.

  20. #180
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Lots of examples posted about times when the board was tough on players or teams. Right now, that's not the problem. There's nothing wrong with reasonable criticism of a player or team. There's nothing wrong with frank discussions about shortcomings or the frustrations of having OAD players and a defense they can't play. Right now, it's not just being tough on the team, the tone between posters is just not good. Sometimes I'm reading a thread and it's like little kids in an argument where each feels like they have to get in the last word (and thus the argument goes on too long and gets unreasonable). If you want an example, go read the 'discussion' of the Kyrie trade in the NBA thread.

    Of course people being too hard on the team or players is often the root cause of the issue but somewhere along the lines someone has to be the bigger person and just let it go!

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