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Thread: USC in trouble

  1. #41
    Hopefully, the one good thing that will come out of all this is that maybe everyone will start to realize that the NBA rule madating one year of college is idiotic. If a kid has zero interest in college, forcing him to go for one year in order to have the opportunity to play in the NBA is silly.

    Alternatively, if the NBA is slow to recognize this and colleges start to stay away from kids that are clear risks, maybe it will give rise to a stream of high school kids that go over to Europe to play for a year.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvtucker View Post
    Hopefully, the one good thing that will come out of all this is that maybe everyone will start to realize that the NBA rule madating one year of college is idiotic. If a kid has zero interest in college, forcing him to go for one year in order to have the opportunity to play in the NBA is silly.
    A-men!

    Make it like baseball. Go out of high school or stay in school at least 3 years. That is how it should be. It makes perfect sense and allows a college basketball program to plan its future roster better as opposed to wondering every year who will stay and who will go. It makes perfect sense and provides meaningful value for both sides -- pro and college ball.

    Sigh-- oh well.

    --Jason "I would love to see several prominent coaches step up and begin to advocate loudly for this system" Evans

  3. #43
    I know its a ways off, but IIRC the NCAA and NBA are in talks about a 2-year minimum that would go into effect sometime around 2010-2012? DBR definitely had something about this on the main page not too long ago. (I'm on deadline at work so didn't have time to search thoroughly and link, sorry...)

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    A-men!

    Make it like baseball. Go out of high school or stay in school at least 3 years. That is how it should be. It makes perfect sense and allows a college basketball program to plan its future roster better as opposed to wondering every year who will stay and who will go. It makes perfect sense and provides meaningful value for both sides -- pro and college ball.

    Sigh-- oh well.

    --Jason "I would love to see several prominent coaches step up and begin to advocate loudly for this system" Evans
    Biggest reason why it should never be like baseball--to make things fair, if you make a kid entering college stay for 3 years, you should also make the school commit to the kid with a 3 year scholarship. And that ain't happening.

    I'd rather it be like ice hockey. Going to college is a perfectly acceptable route to the pros. And teams can draft kids at any point in their college career. If a kid has zero interest in college, the OHL is a valid option In fact, the OHL is a better route to the pros if all you're interested in is hockey.

    The D-League already exists, it wouldn't take too much of a change to make it a valid route to the NBA instead of college.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ugadevil View Post
    Good thing Stanford hired a basketball coach who will take it to both schools!

    I sure hope so. Of course, to hoop there you need to be able to read; which could prove a major disadvantage.

  6. #46
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    Durham

    Doyel Strikes Again

    Jim Rome brought Gregg Doyel on his radio show this afternoon to discuss the whole USC-OJ Mayo fiasco.

    Of course, Doyel had to take his obligatory shot at Duke. When asked about the prevalence of these Guillory-Mayo type relationships in college athletics and how Tim Floyd claims he knew nothing of the monetary relationshi\p between the two, Doyel brought up how Corey Maggette had a relationship with a known drug dealer who undoubtedly gave Maggette money in high school while Krzyzewski claimed he had absolutely no knowledge of it. This is really the first I've heard of this story but if anyone has any credible information on this, I'd be interested to hear about it. I'd rather take your word than take Doyel's.

  7. #47
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    Deeetroit City

    Some punishment unavoidable

    It is disreputable that Floyd and USC may avoid severe sanctions because they will not be deemed "repeat offenders" because the Bush violations are still going through the investigative process.

    Floyd will still have to pay the piper via a lost scholarship because Mayo almost certainly will not graduate. It is also doubtful that OJ has been making the academic progress now required each year. His quotes on the issue seem to indicate he is no longer on campus and is concentrating soley on preparing for the draft and the pre-draft workouts. Doesn't sound like he will be finishing whatever course load was required. Of course, Floyd must have more than enough scholarships if he can throw one away on the rapper buddy of DeRozan, the next one-and-done recruit.

    USC deserves the harshest punishment, the rules violated were to establish fair competition amongst academic intitutions. Duffy should also be decertified for funding someone as stupid as Guillory. Mayo will pay in the long run - his "brand" has been diminished, but more his character reputation with owners will suffer. Owners are starting to look at the people upon whom they are gambling hundreds of millions of dollars. Mayo is looking like a risk when max contract time comes in 4 years.

    It is interesting that Chase Buddinger will fly back to Arizona to take his ONE final (story linked on DBR front page about Miles Simon). Interesting that he can spend weeks training in California and still qualify to take a final. Interesting that he only has one final. Interesting that he is keeping is options open.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Classof06 View Post
    Jim Rome brought Gregg Doyel on his radio show this afternoon to discuss the whole USC-OJ Mayo fiasco.

    Of course, Doyel had to take his obligatory shot at Duke. When asked about the prevalence of these Guillory-Mayo type relationships in college athletics and how Tim Floyd claims he knew nothing of the monetary relationshi\p between the two, Doyel brought up how Corey Maggette had a relationship with a known drug dealer who undoubtedly gave Maggette money in high school while Krzyzewski claimed he had absolutely no knowledge of it. This is really the first I've heard of this story but if anyone has any credible information on this, I'd be interested to hear about it. I'd rather take your word than take Doyel's.
    http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news?s...yhoo&type=lgns

    This is a fairly good recap of the Maggette case. From the article:

    "Duke has a wrinkle in its defense. Maggette took his money before he was enrolled at the school. Crudup and Camby took theirs while in college.

    "At no time when he was associated with Duke did [Maggette] take the payments," Burness said. "It is very different when someone is enrolled."


    I don't think there was ever a penalty imposed on Duke, but I may be wrong (a fine perhaps?).

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    I don't think there was ever a penalty imposed on Duke, but I may be wrong (a fine perhaps?).
    Perhaps the "penalty" was him leaving after only one year.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    It is disreputable that Floyd and USC may avoid severe sanctions because they will not be deemed "repeat offenders" because the Bush violations are still going through the investigative process.

    Floyd will still have to pay the piper via a lost scholarship because Mayo almost certainly will not graduate. It is also doubtful that OJ has been making the academic progress now required each year. His quotes on the issue seem to indicate he is no longer on campus and is concentrating soley on preparing for the draft and the pre-draft workouts. Doesn't sound like he will be finishing whatever course load was required. Of course, Floyd must have more than enough scholarships if he can throw one away on the rapper buddy of DeRozan, the next one-and-done recruit.

    USC deserves the harshest punishment, the rules violated were to establish fair competition amongst academic intitutions. Duffy should also be decertified for funding someone as stupid as Guillory. Mayo will pay in the long run - his "brand" has been diminished, but more his character reputation with owners will suffer. Owners are starting to look at the people upon whom they are gambling hundreds of millions of dollars. Mayo is looking like a risk when max contract time comes in 4 years.

    It is interesting that Chase Buddinger will fly back to Arizona to take his ONE final (story linked on DBR front page about Miles Simon). Interesting that he can spend weeks training in California and still qualify to take a final. Interesting that he only has one final. Interesting that he is keeping is options open.
    didnt boozer manage to complete summer school classes while playing for the U20 team one summer? I could be wrong but I think that was the case.
    My Quick Smells Like French Toast.

  11. #51
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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by devilish View Post
    Perhaps the "penalty" was him leaving after only one year.
    I think Maggette had come and gone from Duke by the time the Piggie case came to light. Now, whether, this was known behind closed doors, and contributed to a mutual decision for Corey to leave early...I have no idea.

    It still gripes me that we didn't use our bench more in that '99 Title game vs UConn. Maggette played a grand total of 2 minutes, if I recall.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    I don't think there was ever a penalty imposed on Duke, but I may be wrong (a fine perhaps?).
    If there was a penalty imposed on Duke, I'm sure I and every other college basketball fan would've heard about it. It would probably be like heaven on Earth for most fans.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvtucker View Post
    Hopefully, the one good thing that will come out of all this is that maybe everyone will start to realize that the NBA rule madating one year of college is idiotic. If a kid has zero interest in college, forcing him to go for one year in order to have the opportunity to play in the NBA is silly.

    Alternatively, if the NBA is slow to recognize this and colleges start to stay away from kids that are clear risks, maybe it will give rise to a stream of high school kids that go over to Europe to play for a year.
    You make a good point. For discussion purposes...if the NBA stuck with an eligibility threshold of at least one year after high school, but permitted guys to go to college or the D-league, would that really work?

    Wouldn't an OJ Mayo still perhaps choose USC or whatever to gain greater exposure and a chance to play in the big stage NCAA tournament?

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Classof06 View Post
    Jim Rome brought Gregg Doyel on his radio show this afternoon to discuss the whole USC-OJ Mayo fiasco.

    Of course, Doyel had to take his obligatory shot at Duke. When asked about the prevalence of these Guillory-Mayo type relationships in college athletics and how Tim Floyd claims he knew nothing of the monetary relationshi\p between the two, Doyel brought up how Corey Maggette had a relationship with a known drug dealer who undoubtedly gave Maggette money in high school while Krzyzewski claimed he had absolutely no knowledge of it. This is really the first I've heard of this story but if anyone has any credible information on this, I'd be interested to hear about it. I'd rather take your word than take Doyel's.
    If the drug dealer came into Coach K's office saying that he represented Maggette then maybe, maybe, you could make an argument that the situation was similar.

    If the drug dealer hung out in the Duke locker room and attended Duke games with Maggette's tickets...

    If Maggette had a $1000+ TV set in his dorm room paid for by the drug dealer...

    The key factor here is the fact that there is no way USC can claim it had no idea that Mayo had a relationship with a very shady character. That shady character delivered Mayo to USC and was around the player/program constantly this year.

    I am guessing that the "drug dealer" here is Myron Piggie, who did provide about $2000 to Maggette and several other players who were on his AAU sumemr team in Kansas City. To the best of my knowledge Coach K and Duke never had any contact at all with Piggie and Piggie certainly did not hang out around Durham while Maggette was here.

    To compare the two situations would seem to be quite a bit of a stretch.

    --Jason "Gregg Doyle will never forgive K for not letting Gregg write that book" Evans

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    I think Maggette had come and gone from Duke by the time the Piggie case came to light. Now, whether, this was known behind closed doors, and contributed to a mutual decision for Corey to leave early...I have no idea.

    It still gripes me that we didn't use our bench more in that '99 Title game vs UConn. Maggette played a grand total of 2 minutes, if I recall.
    11 minutes. I don't recall him playing very well.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Beem View Post
    11 minutes. I don't recall him playing very well.
    Thanks, Karl...

    I've followed Duke basketball for over 40 years, and I think the 1999 title game pains me more than any other game.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvtucker View Post
    Biggest reason why it should never be like baseball--to make things fair, if you make a kid entering college stay for 3 years, you should also make the school commit to the kid with a 3 year scholarship. And that ain't happening.
    I thought that scholarships pretty much HAVE to be renewed every year unless there is sufficient cause to dismiss a player from the team. This prevents schools from simply cutting players for younger/better ones whenver they are available. This in effect guarantees 4-year scholarships, so long as the player abides by the rules.

    Someone, please correct me if I'm off-base on this.

  18. #58

    The story on Corey

    First the facts... Corey Maggette did in fact take money from his AAU coach - Myron Piggie, a guy who was arrested and convicted of dealing drugs. As I recall, the amount in question was about $2K but that doesn't really much matter.

    Duke took a huge pounding after all this came to light, mainly on the charges that "they should have known" about Piggie and the rest of the guys on that AAU which Wetzel declared was known around the AAU circuit as "Team Cash 'n' Carry." Interestingly, none of the guys who were so adamant about what Duke should have known about Maggette and the rest of his teammates were confident enough in the story to write about it before Maggette and the rest of his teammates signed with colleges. So the idea that "everyone knew" is hard to reconcile with the fact that nobody was reporting what "everyone knew" when it was happening.

    BTW - the last fan base who should be in a position to criticize Duke for their involvement with Maggette would be the folks just down the road wearing the ugly blue uniforms. Maggette's AAU team, the Kansas City Children's Mercy Hospital 76ers was underwritten by two major sources. The first was Nike, the second was Tom Grant, a wealthy Kansas City businessman. Tom also happened to be a major University of Kansas booster.

    The 76ers had a great array of talent to go along with Maggette. Kareem Rush (who dumped almost 30 points on Duke in the 2001 NCAA Tournament game against Missouri) and his brother JaRon Rush (who was as talented as Kareem and their other brother Brandon but basically drank himself out of basketball) combined with Korleone Young who went straight to the NBA and then straight overseas when it was clear he couldn't play.

    The short story to all of this is that it was Tom Grant who hired Piggie and it was Tom Grant who was a huge benefactor of all those guys on that team, especially JaRon Rush who was driving around in a car that was paid for by Grant. To be fair, Grant actually does do a lot of charitable work and has paid for more than a few kids' college tuition.

    But, the timeline of things goes something like this:

    • Grant hires Piggie and funds the operation
    • Rush verbally commits to Kansas
    • The whole Piggie mess becomes public knowledge and Grant fires Piggie
    • Rush makes some sort of public statement along the lines of he doesn't like the way that Roy Williams substitutes but that he "still may go to Kansas."
    • Roy cuts ties with JaRon
    • JaRon signs with UCLA


    So if JaRon honors his original commitment to Kansas then Ol' Roy is right there in the middle of all of this, perhaps even worse since JaRon Rush was the guy who really got paid by Piggie. The question is, since Rush didn't waiver on his commitment until after Piggie was fired by Grant, how much of what went down was controlled by Piggie?

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by El_Diablo View Post
    I thought that scholarships pretty much HAVE to be renewed every year unless there is sufficient cause to dismiss a player from the team. This prevents schools from simply cutting players for younger/better ones whenver they are available. This in effect guarantees 4-year scholarships, so long as the player abides by the rules.

    Someone, please correct me if I'm off-base on this.
    You're off base here.

    There is nothing at all to prevent schools from simply cutting players for younger/better ones when they are available. No conditions are necessary. In fact, at many places the only thing that needs to happen is that the coach to makes a decision not to renew a player's scholarship. It happens ALL the time, particularly when there's a change of coaches at a program. Thankfully, it doesn't happen at Duke.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    You make a good point. For discussion purposes...if the NBA stuck with an eligibility threshold of at least one year after high school, but permitted guys to go to college or the D-league, would that really work?

    Wouldn't an OJ Mayo still perhaps choose USC or whatever to gain greater exposure and a chance to play in the big stage NCAA tournament?
    And that is offset by the dollars that Mayo could make elsewhere. Even for a player with no qualms at all about taking money, there's a limit to how much you get under the table. At a eruo league team a player can make 6 figures if he's good enough to be thinking about being one and done in college. With the D-league, I bet a guy like Mayo could warrant a 6 or 7 figures salary, easy.

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