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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Edouble View Post
    Yeah, if we'd gone to 3 Final Fours with the current roster, then losing TK would be a blip on the radar b/c we'd be returing 7 out of our top 8 players coming off of a Final Four season.

    With recent early exits, TK's transfer is, as I put it "icing on the cake". Or maybe I should say, adding insult to injury. TK tansferring is not the low point of the last two seasons, but it's kinda just one more thing that makes you go ugh.

    UCLA is in a completely different situation than us. For them, this transfer is a minor sniffle. It's kind of like when Andre Sweet transferred. We were in the midst of a very dominant time period and it didn't really seem like much to cough at. TK leaving after the results of the past two seasons gives me a lot more pause.
    I think this is very well put and echoes my sentiment as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edouble View Post
    Hmmm, not sure if I buy that they will have transfer issues, as Quentin Thomas never transferred despit being recruited over twice. Maybe they can convince kids to stay around really well, or maybe Q is just a special case. It seems like there's no precedent to suggest that they will have transfers.

    If your precedent is that we have had transfers here in Durham, I'd say that's not enough to go on. I think that Q hanging around for four years is stronger evidence that they will not have transfer problems, and that they are able to retain a deep bench of guys that could get more PT if they went elsewhere.
    Have to agree with you again. It sure does seem like someone is going to be unhappy, if not more than one person, but you have to look at precedent when making predictions like this. My guess is that they can keep 'em happy for 1 year when they are 5 deep in the frountcourt, but when they go to being 7 deep there, I dont see how Roy or anyone else can possibly keep them happy, unless there's something going on we dont know about.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA

    Thanks for the props

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkyJ View Post
    ... but when they go to being 7 deep there, I dont see how Roy or anyone else can possibly keep them happy, unless there's something going on we dont know about.
    Wow, you mean like some Stepford Wives reprogramming type stuff?

    I'd believe it. The whole place is like some kind of sick dream-like (nightmare) world all covered in that horrible powder blue.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by keithg View Post
    BTW, the divorce is actually down from 20 years ago, but I get your point.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18600304/
    Cool. Thanks for the link. That is really good news. In my geographic and demographic situation, it still seems epidemic, so it is good to see the trend headed in the right direction.

    The figures suggest that the Duke administration did the right thing in the seventies and really turned around that rising divorce rate of Duke graduates! Maybe we should have Coach K contact them to figure out how to curtail the transfer thing.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Edouble View Post
    Yeah, if we'd gone to 3 Final Fours with the current roster, then losing TK would be a blip on the radar b/c we'd be returing 7 out of our top 8 players coming off of a Final Four season.

    With recent early exits, TK's transfer is, as I put it "icing on the cake". Or maybe I should say, adding insult to injury. TK tansferring is not the low point of the last two seasons, but it's kinda just one more thing that makes you go ugh.

    UCLA is in a completely different situation than us. For them, this transfer is a minor sniffle. It's kind of like when Andre Sweet transferred. We were in the midst of a very dominant time period and it didn't really seem like much to cough at. TK leaving after the results of the past two seasons gives me a lot more pause.
    This is awesome. I get to add even more names to my list and bump that thread back up. Curiously, I'm still waiting for an answer from Gary...

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Latta6970 View Post
    I know you posted as if to say (and you may be right) UNC will have some transfers due to having too many big men. But having watched Duke last season, when they didn't have anyone to replace Shelden with against UCONN in the Final Four, when Duke had to start Greg Newton and then knowing the trouble we are having recruiting height and beef. Well let's just say it must be a nice problem to have and it doesn't sound like match ups down low will be in Duke's favor any time soon against UNC.
    Yup their front court will be pretty solid for years but they don't get a solid wing/SG commit until 2010 (Reggie Bullock).

    2009 will be a serious down year with Hansbrough, Ginyard, Green, and Ellington all gone leaving William Graves as their top wing scorer/defender.

  6. #26

    Yeah Coddle

    Quote Originally Posted by dw0827 View Post
    I am a bit confused about the point you are making in this paragraph especially as it relates to kids these days and how best to handle them. I don't want to put words in your mouth, so could you please explain what you mean a little differently?

    Personally, I wouldn't coddle the current generation. Be direct, honest, set goals, demand performance, follow through on consequences . . . and if they don't like it, fine, let them transfer.

    Coaching goes beyond winning ball games. Its also about making men out of boys, IMO . . . and its a mean nasty world out there and they need to be prepared for it. There are no trophies for 10th place where I work . . .
    Coddle is a good word, I'm relying on your spell check abilities to make sure it's spelled right. God no, I'm not saying Duke SHOULD coddle players or Coach K should bargain with players so they won't transfer. But let's face it star athletes have always been shown favoritism in school from middle school and beyond. They are all used to getting their way and never hearing no. Think how it must have been for a freshman like King to be all everything best player in the state and on his team come to Duke last season. He was the third or lower most heralded FRESHMAN and his butt felt more pine that in his entire life. Call it ego or being a prima donna, but the guy wasn't used to playing 2nd string or 2nd fiddle to anyone. But then you can take a guy like Scheyer who started as a freshman, make him your sixth man (perhaps still should have been starting) and he thrived. You can't tell from player to player.

    But it's not just athletes these days who are coddled IMO, it's all kids from the time they are in elementary school even through college. Not everyone fits the stereotype granted, but so many have a sense of entitlement because they have been given so much yet had to work for so little. (No I'm not going to start telling how I used to walk to school 10 miles every day, barefoot in the snow, up hill both ways.) But accomplisment is drilled into their brains and they aren't allowed to experience failure at anything. Graduation ceremony for kindergarten? Umm, it's kindergarten, yay you colored without going outside the lines, yay, here's your cap and gown! And in sports or any competition they know they are going to get a medal / ribbon / gold star win or lose. So what is the point of giving everything you've got or improving?

    I truly believe at least lately a lot of Duke's transfers or early NBA defections came out of this mindset in todays society. I think it made some guys ignore advice to stay in school because they had only known success. And I think when the going got tough on some guys, they got going instead of toughing it out because they had experienced very little rejection or negative feedback. I am just saying this may be and IMO is part of the problem with certain transfers and early defectors. As to what Coach K and staff should do about it, you got me?? Bobby Knight was a hard pottymouth!pottymouth!pottymouth! year after year and for a time it worked, but at some point that style of coaching stopped attracting top flight talent. Coach K has had an incredible run and will continue to rack up victories and bring in bodies. He is a hard pottymouth!pottymouth!pottymouth!, but a kinder more gentle hard pottymouth!pottymouth!pottymouth! than Bobby Knight. I'm not saying he should pat players on the back, rub their heads and tuck them in at bedtime. I love the way he coaches, and as stated before I respond to a good profanity laced reaming better than sugar coating any day. But I'm a different generation and I wasn't raised think I'm okay and you're okay.


    Think of players that transfered and then think of players like Carawell and James who toughed it out for four years to blossom as seniors. If I'm not mistaken those two were from St. Louis and the DC area's. Places where you had to be tough, you went through trials and tribulation and you had to work before you were given anything. If anyone disagrees that's fine, but todays middle / upper class suburbs kid feels he / she is entitled to a lot more than that same kid would have 10, 20 or 30 years ago. It's made them in general softer and less able to handle setbacks and road blocks. I love the sweet finesse and instant quality game in a Grant Hill, Dunleavy or Scheyer. But I'll take the toughness of a Dockery, Wojo or James who persevered due to having come from back grounds where they were given nothing and ended up succeeding.


    OK, I just read back through what I typed and it replaced a word with "potty mouth" each time. That is hillarious!!!!!!! I'm litterally holding my sides laughing. Can you imagine Coach K callig a time out and saying, "What the potty mouth are you guys doing out there"? That's not the potty mouth play I called and you potty mouth sure aren't playing defense like we potty mouth discussed in the potty mouth locker room"!!!!!! I need a box to carry with me that bleeps "potty mouth" and covers up any profanity I use. The mods don't think I use discression about what I post, but I assure you even though a situation I'm picturing in my head using the "potty mouth" censor box is hillarious I am not going into detail.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Texas/NC
    OH MY... check this one out everyone. Welcome to Indiana Coach Crean!

    http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/8096300/Indiana's-Holman-to-transfer

  8. #28

    Thanks

    Thanks for the clarification.

    And I generally agree with your take on this.

    If . . . and I repeat . . . if somebody transfers because he isn't getting playing time, then I'm good with it. Please, transfer. Go elsewhere and I wish you all the best. Sorry it didn't work out.

    And I'm not casting aspersions at any of the guys who have transferred in recent years. I didn't know them, I don't know why they transferred, and I wish them every success.

    I am of the belief that playing time is earned (in practice) . . . its not a birthright . . . its not an entitlement. If a guy isn't getting enough PT, I trust the coaching staff to have a good reason for it. I also trust the the staff hasn't lost its touch with the kids of today.

    This whole transfer issue is, IMO, nonsense. As Jumbo and others have pointed out, virtually all elite programs have transfers. So what. It means nothing.

  9. #29

    Yes and No

    Quote Originally Posted by dw0827 View Post
    Thanks for the clarification.

    And I generally agree with your take on this.

    If . . . and I repeat . . . if somebody transfers because he isn't getting playing time, then I'm good with it. Please, transfer. Go elsewhere and I wish you all the best. Sorry it didn't work out.

    And I'm not casting aspersions at any of the guys who have transferred in recent years. I didn't know them, I don't know why they transferred, and I wish them every success.

    I am of the belief that playing time is earned (in practice) . . . its not a birthright . . . its not an entitlement. If a guy isn't getting enough PT, I trust the coaching staff to have a good reason for it. I also trust the the staff hasn't lost its touch with the kids of today.

    This whole transfer issue is, IMO, nonsense. As Jumbo and others have pointed out, virtually all elite programs have transfers. So what. It means nothing.

    On the surface it looks like no big deal, two or three years down the road it can come back to haunt you. And truth be told I would put King transfering near the top of the ones that worry me. We all saw him play, we all know what he is capable of even though for whatever reason that play declined as the season went on. When Christian Ast transfers I say, "ehhh okay". Billy McCaffery transfers I say, "what you didn't want another ring"? King transfers and I say, "I don' want to see Nova in the NCAA tourney in a few years".

  10. #30
    This whole transfer issue is, IMO, nonsense. As Jumbo and others have pointed out, virtually all elite programs have transfers. So what. It means nothing.
    What a load of nonsense. There's quite a few separate issues here.

    A) A number of those kids that transferred did squat here or at their next institution (quite a few in fact). Who analyzed their game and gave them offers? Is our scouting off?

    B) Are we like every other school without an academic reputation to maintain? Are we a factory that tells kids to leave?

    So why are we comparing ourselves to the herd? That's a pathetic standard.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Regenman View Post
    What a load of nonsense. There's quite a few separate issues here.

    A) A number of those kids that transferred did squat here or at their next institution (quite a few in fact). Who analyzed their game and gave them offers? Is our scouting off?

    B) Are we like every other school without an academic reputation to maintain? Are we a factory that tells kids to leave?

    So why are we comparing ourselves to the herd? That's a pathetic standard.
    "The herd?" Are you kidding me? Yeah, Duke should be held to a standard that is completely different than any program in the country. Give me a break.

    Of course Duke has academic standards to uphold. What does that have to do with transfers? Regular Duke students transfer too. Duke is also recruiting elite basketball players. These kids were all top-notch high school players with high standards of their own. They want to play. If they are stuck behind the bench on a team filled with 10 other guys just as competitive, talented and smart as they are, guess what? They might choose to go somewhere else to showcase their skills. And what's wrong with that? Basketball is a full-time job for these kids in addition to going to class. Are you going to blame some of them for wanting to see time in actual games? Duke isn't the best place for everyone. Some kids realize that in high school. Other kids realize that after they've spent some time there. That's life, especially when kids are involved -- whether they're part of the "herd" or part of Duke.

  12. #32

    I agree

    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
    "The herd?" Are you kidding me? Yeah, Duke should be held to a standard that is completely different than any program in the country. Give me a break.

    Of course Duke has academic standards to uphold. What does that have to do with transfers? Regular Duke students transfer too. Duke is also recruiting elite basketball players. These kids were all top-notch high school players with high standards of their own. They want to play. If they are stuck behind the bench on a team filled with 10 other guys just as competitive, talented and smart as they are, guess what? They might choose to go somewhere else to showcase their skills. And what's wrong with that? Basketball is a full-time job for these kids in addition to going to class. Are you going to blame some of them for wanting to see time in actual games? Duke isn't the best place for everyone. Some kids realize that in high school. Other kids realize that after they've spent some time there. That's life, especially when kids are involved -- whether they're part of the "herd" or part of Duke.
    I agree with everything Jumbo said, Duke isn't the only school to have athletes transfer, regular students transfer too and so far the guys that transfered ended up washing out where ever they chose. And if a player is sitting behind two guys for playing time at the same position it's their perogative to hit the road if they choose.

    Here's a different view most all of us can remember though. The 1999 team that lost to UCONN in the national championship was freakin' loaded. IMO one of the best teams NOT to win it all ever. That team would run other teams out of the building. Bring in five guys, take out five guys, everyone played and as long as the winning continued everyone was happy working towards a goal of a national championship. Okay I guess those days are gone for Duke and every school. But that team would try and put their scrubs in with ten minutes to go and still keep increasing the lead. There wasn't a me first attitude on that team as far as I could tell (maybe Burgess who tranfered after that season even knowing full well Brand was leaving.) and it seemed they enjoyed playing together. Imagne if Kobe Bryant had been on that team as well, or if they had all stayed to join, Boozer, Williams, Dunnleavy the next season. Can you say DREAM TEAM?


    Is that type of depth, mindset and tallent even possible anymore? It seems if you had similar players these days and some were only getting 20 minutes a game you'd be getting transfers left and right, mid season transfers even. Do players all come in with the mindset to make a pitstop before heading to the NBA now? I can't stand Hansbrough, but to come back to win a Championship, like Shelden and JJ tried to do is admirable. It seems players today, come to college to show off their game so they can punch their meal ticket after a year or two. And truth be told if you have no plans to graduate, why subject yourself to the strenuous academic standards at a school like Duke? Go to Memphis for a season where you won't be distracted by classes and learning.

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