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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Redick and Hansbrough

    Our Carolina friends love to bring this up, and with Hansbrough returning for his senior season and likely to break JJ's scoring record, it's interesting to compare them once more. Here's the thing: They've had remarkably similar career paths.
    -Both are four-year players whose draft stock wasn't particularly high after their junior seasons, despite incredibly high-profile status.
    -Both had a total of eight NCAA Tourney wins through their first three seasons (something to remind your UNC friends the next time they harp on JJ's lack of postseason success).
    -Both reach one Final Four in their first three seasons.
    -Hansbrough has scored 2,168 points so far; Redick had 1,805.
    -Both players have been criticized for receiving too much publicity based on a) their race and b) the school where they played.

    We'll see if Hansbrough is able to achieve the senior-year goal J.J. couldn't reach. But their careers have been remarkably similar to this point.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    Post of the month.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Texas/NC

    The Other Side of the Coin

    They are similar in that they have both been high scoring players in the ACC that have been National Players of the Year, but for every similarity you can find there are even more differences. They are similar because they are great players with succesful teams (like most NPOYs historically). Other than that, their college careers have looked pretty different.

    Hansbrough came in as the #1 option on a rebuilding Tarheel team at the forward position.... he then steadily became better and better from one season to the next. The team has grown with him as they went to the Final Four this last season.

    JJ Redick came in as a sharpshooter who coasted and partied his first two years on natural talent (lots of it obviously) and then started his Duke Career Part Two during the summer before his junior year.

    JJ Redick Final Four- Sophomore Season (Sweet16, Final Four, Sweet16, Sweet16)
    Hansbrough- Junior Season (Second Round, Elite Eight, Final Four)

    JJ- Three point shooter
    Hansbrough- well, basically a completely different skill set in every way

    As was pointed out, their point totals are fully 363 points apart after three years. This is kind of a huge difference.

    I think there are interesting points here, but "Isn't it crazy how similar JJ and Tyler are?" is not something you are going to hear outside of the triangle. They just aren't very similar besides the similarities that naturally come with the fact that they are great players on great high profile teams.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Cambridge, MA
    I 100% agree with you Jumbo and it's something I've said to people for a while now (not on DBR). If JJ Redick was a post player instead of a shooting guard and went to UNC instead of Duke, he would be Tyler Hansbrough. I will add to your list that they both don't have a ton of natural athletic ability and they've both been so successful because they have an absurd work ethic.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueintheFace View Post
    I think there are interesting points here, but "Isn't it crazy how similar JJ and Tyler are?" is not something you are going to hear outside of the triangle. They just aren't very similar besides the similarities that naturally come with the fact that they are great players on great high profile teams.
    I never said J.J. and Tyler were similar. I said they've had similar careers.

  6. #6
    The perception was that Redick failed in the tournament. If you have time Jumbo, how have their tourney careers compared? My perception is that Hansbrough seems to just always do his thing. While Redick faltered in the tournament.

    I expect some of that was the nature of long distance versus post scoring. But it also shows the value of getting the ball inside, whether by penetration of just tossing it down low.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonandblue View Post
    The perception was that Redick failed in the tournament. If you have time Jumbo, how have their tourney careers compared? My perception is that Hansbrough seems to just always do his thing. While Redick faltered in the tournament.

    I expect some of that was the nature of long distance versus post scoring. But it also shows the value of getting the ball inside, whether by penetration of just tossing it down low.
    This site is fantastic for any Duke info. Here are J.J.'s career numbers in the NCAA Tourney:
    15.9 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 1.9 apg, 1.2 spg, .376 FG%, .339 3PT%, .857 FT%. He definitely shoot the ball as well in the NCAA Tourney. It's odd, because in three of his four ACC Tournaments, he shot the ball extremely well. It's more that a few high-profile, lousy NCAA Tourney performances stick out -- 2-for-16 against your boys as a frosh, 4-for-14 vs. Michigan State as a junior and of course 3-for-18 against LSU as a senior. But he had a few excellent NCAA performances as well.

    UNC doesn't have a similar site as far, so I had to do a little math. Hansbrough has averaged 20 ppg and 9.0 rpg in the Tourney on .527 shooting from the field and .753 from the line. In UNC's three Tourney losses, he hasn't been quite as good:
    As a frosh against George Mason, he was 5-for-13 from the field, didn't attempt a FT, had 10 points, nine boards, four fouls and three turnovers.
    As a sophomore against Georgetown, he was 6-for-15 from the field, but did get to take 16 FTs, of which he made 14. So he finished with 26 points, 11 boards and four fouls.
    And this year against Kansas he had 17 and 9 with three turnovers and three fouls. He shot 6-13 from the floor and 5-6 from the line.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonandblue View Post
    The perception was that Redick failed in the tournament. If you have time Jumbo, how have their tourney careers compared? My perception is that Hansbrough seems to just always do his thing. While Redick faltered in the tournament.

    I expect some of that was the nature of long distance versus post scoring. But it also shows the value of getting the ball inside, whether by penetration of just tossing it down low.
    Hansbrough has fared quite well in the tourney in his career. He has never been the reason for his team's losses. This year, he carried them to victory against Louisville (28 and 13) and was the best player in their blowout loss to Kansas (17 and 9). He had 26 and 11 in the G'Town loss last year. And as a freshman, he had 10 and 9 against the eventual Final Four team George Mason. Aside from the GMU game and the USC game (5 and 4), he's been awesome in the tournament:
    2008: 20.2 ppg, 9.4 rpg
    2007: 21.3 ppg, 8.5 rpg
    2006: 17 ppg, 9 rpg

    Redick is tougher to measure, because he was pretty much a scorer only. Here are his relevant stats:

    2003: 15.7 ppg, 41% FG%
    2004: 14 ppg, 42% FG%
    2005: 12 ppg, 25% FG%
    2006: 20 ppg, 38% FG%

    Redick was certainly much more of a negative focal point in our tourney losses. In 2005, he went 5-17 for 16 points in the near-loss to Miss St, and followed that up with a 4-13 against Mich St in the loss. In 2006, we all remember the 11 point, 3-18 night he had. In 2004, he went for 15 points shooting 4-12 against UConn. In 2003, he went 2-16 and had 5 points in the loss to Kansas.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    On the couch

    What will be interesting

    is how the media will deal with Hansbrough this year. I suspect that they will grow tired of him and claim that he is over exposed, and start to pick him apart. Of course the irony in this is that the media is responsible for his over exposure in the first place. I think that Hansbrough and JJ will share this commonalty in their careers as well by the end of next year.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    hans will be his usual dominating psycho-t self. I still say that without a championship, he will merely be a very strong stats story EVEN with all the records. (JJ's included).....if Roy three-peats in chokes(and there is every reason to believe he will)....hans' legacy will suffer from that...

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by oldnavy View Post
    is how the media will deal with Hansbrough this year. I suspect that they will grow tired of him and claim that he is over exposed, and start to pick him apart. Of course the irony in this is that the media is responsible for his over exposure in the first place. I think that Hansbrough and JJ will share this commonalty in their careers as well by the end of next year.
    I don't think Hansbrough will get the same abuse that Redick has gotten. Remember - a fair amount of Redick's "villain" status was due to the fact that he played for Duke. ESPN was in the height of their promotion of the "Duke gets all the calls" phase and the "Duke bashing" phase (at least in the media, as they definitely didn't cut back on televising us). Hansbrough plays on a team that is far less hated nationally.

    Additionally, Redick really played up the villain role, strutting and talking trash to the crowd. Hansbrough looks goofy and has his whole "psycho" image, but pretty much stays focused on the court rather than the theatrics. Not that Redick wasn't focused on the game - just that he also took the time in between possessions to let the crowd know how good he was.

    There may very well be some anti-Hansbrough angst next year due to overexposure, but I don't see any way he gets the same level of grief Redick got.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    Certainly Hansbrough has not gotten the Redick-style grief yet, but many people definitely started to tire of the Chuck-Norris-style comparisons Hansbrough was receiving from the likes of generally respected analysts like, say, Jay Bilas. I think there is strong potential for people to dislike Hansbrough somewhere in the same stratosphere as the hate for Redick, but, I agree, not quite to the same degree.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by freedevil View Post
    I think there is strong potential for people to dislike Hansbrough somewhere in the same stratosphere as the hate for Redick, but, I agree, not quite to the same degree.

    let's all help......


    actually, i see some of the worship trends of Hans beginning to fade. Look at how the refs have begun to call the Hansbro Hop more and more.....and the entire country witnessed the Kansas-no-call type of game it takes to beat the holes...

    I don't think they let him parade to the FT line nearly as much next year.....and as we all saw, when HE doesn't get his way, the rest of the team (and the coach ) kinda falls apart...

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Charlotte, North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonandblue View Post
    The perception was that Redick failed in the tournament. If you have time Jumbo, how have their tourney careers compared? My perception is that Hansbrough seems to just always do his thing. While Redick faltered in the tournament.

    I expect some of that was the nature of long distance versus post scoring. But it also shows the value of getting the ball inside, whether by penetration of just tossing it down low.
    I would submit that in the NCAA tournament losses, Hansbrough did not "do his thing."

    First - my definition of Hansbrough's "thing": during the regular season and ACC tournaments, increasingly over the last 3 years, Hansbrough had become a consistent 20-10 (more like 22-12) guy. He has also tended to dominate the ends of games (with Carolina feeding him the ball and him getting to the line - earned or not). That is what you come to expect from Hansbrough leading up to the NCAA tournament.

    And that is what he has done in several tournament games. But in the losses to Georgetown and Kansas, Hansbrough was dominated inside and became a non-factor for extended and crucial parts of the game. And when he has failed to "do his thing", Carolina has gotten bounced. (I'm not examining the George Mason game because I didn't see it).

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    About 150 feet in front of the Duke Chapel doors.
    Quote Originally Posted by freedevil View Post
    Certainly Hansbrough has not gotten the Redick-style grief yet, but many people definitely started to tire of the Chuck-Norris-style comparisons Hansbrough was receiving from the likes of generally respected analysts like, say, Jay Bilas. I think there is strong potential for people to dislike Hansbrough somewhere in the same stratosphere as the hate for Redick, but, I agree, not quite to the same degree.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonpie23 View Post
    let's all help...
    You know, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. I don't like Hansbrough, but I don't hate him, and, IMO, no one deserves the vitriol spewn at JJ save for the truly despicable.
    JBDuke

    Andre Dawkins: “People ask me if I can still shoot, and I ask them if they can still breathe. That’s kind of the same thing.”

  16. #16
    I just like the fact that we're going to be playing in Chapel Hill on Hansbrough's senior night (possibly on the night his jersey will be going up into the rafters...)
    I feel like it would bookend the Hansbrough era very nicely if that particular part of his career were to mirror JJs...

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfax336 View Post
    I just like the fact that we're going to be playing in Chapel Hill on Hansbrough's senior night (possibly on the night his jersey will be going up into the rafters...)
    I feel like it would bookend the Hansbrough era very nicely if that particular part of his career were to mirror JJs...
    That would be very nice, yes.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    ← Bay / Valley ↓
    Quote Originally Posted by JBDuke View Post
    You know, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. I don't like Hansbrough, but I don't hate him, and, IMO, no one deserves the vitriol spewn at JJ save for the truly despicable.
    gotcha, save it for when D'oherty comes back to coach Carolina

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC

    Bad Guy

    Anyone else think Hansbrough will earn "most hated player" status nationally this coming year based on the fact that most fans will tire of him being pushed so relentlessly like Redick was?

    It's going to be like a professional wrestling heel turn. The backlash will be fun to watch.

  20. #20
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    Mar 2008
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    raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by JBDuke View Post
    You know, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. I don't like Hansbrough, but I don't hate him, and, IMO, no one deserves the vitriol spewn at JJ save for the truly despicable.
    you're right.....let's send him flowers for going his entire college career never losing at cameron....

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