Lacrosse

[dyedwab]

I was one of the founding members of the lax club at RHS, way back in the early 70s, 15 years before they made lax a varsity sport. We practiced four days a week at 7:00 a.m. for the whole school year, and the only competition we got was in the Fair Lawn summer league.

As a Fair Lawn native, I remember that LAX was our big spring sport, over baseball. We were ok, but as you recall, few teams locally really played the sport...Ridgewood and Fair Lawn were two of the few that had established programs...

I love watching lacrosse and am glad to see its expansion and development and gratified to see Duke's success on the field

[BD80]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BD80
Frankly, women ARE ... not demonstrating enough interest in sports! There simply are not enough women interested in sports to generate the creation of enough spots for women at the high school and college levels to balance the interest level of the men.

I eagerly await your data to back up this point of your argument since everything hinges on it.

You doubt this?!? Have you ever been involved in high school or college athletics? Ever have kids in sports? Ask any AD in college or high school. Better yet, get involved. Personally, I have been involved at the high school level in trying to create women's sports teams to achieve the necessary "balance" to add a men's sport. We were initially successful in creating a women's lacrosse team, but the team is currently suffering from lack of interest. We also drew vociferous complaints from coaches that we were cannibalizing the other women's teams of the relatively few women interested in sports, and thus jeopardizing the viability of those teams. Go look at intramural programs on college campuses, take a look at sports fields or basketball court as you drive around each day. In real life this isn't a close call; there are overwhelmingly more men interested in participating in sports than women.

Yes, this is a central point of my argument. As I originally stated, I recall there being studies which showed this, but I rely more on anecdotal evidence. Franky, I haven't the patience to belabor the point with people like you.

If you honestly see as much interest in participating in sports from women as men, I guess I will concede my argument. No honest person has ever said there is the same level of interest.

More likely, you are refusing to admit what is plainly true. Demanding "proof" is the essence of the problem. The only truly quantifiable "equality" is to create equal numbers of opportunities, and this simply ignores reality. Any attempt to quantify the disparity in interest levels is susceptible to challenge as to the exact number (ie it should be higher or lower), so it is easier to just allow boys to be screwed over. After all, haven't men had all the advantages for so long? It is time they were disadvantaged, isn't it?

Do you also need proof that women are different from men? How is the difference to be quantified?

Tell me if you honestly think there are as many women interested in participating in sports as men.

Tell me if you honestly think it is fair that men's teams are being cut despite more than sufficient interest in the teams.

[prefan21]

I'm for amending Title IX, if there's a way to do it that doesn't unduly jeopardize the opportunities for women. As it stands, it's a bit like a school that gets 2:1 male:female applicants sticking hard and fast to a 50% men, 50% women admissions policy.

[hughgs]

You doubt this?!? Have you ever been involved in high school or college athletics? Ever have kids in sports? Ask any AD in college or high school. Better yet, get involved. Personally, I have been involved at the high school level in trying to create women's sports teams to achieve the necessary "balance" to add a men's sport. We were initially successful in creating a women's lacrosse team, but the team is currently suffering from lack of interest. We also drew vociferous complaints from coaches that we were cannibalizing the other women's teams of the relatively few women interested in sports, and thus jeopardizing the viability of those teams. Go look at intramural programs on college campuses, take a look at sports fields or basketball court as you drive around each day. In real life this isn't a close call; there are overwhelmingly more men interested in participating in sports than women.

Yes, this is a central point of my argument. As I originally stated, I recall there being studies which showed this, but I rely more on anecdotal evidence. Franky, I haven't the patience to belabor the point with people like you.

If you honestly see as much interest in participating in sports from women as men, I guess I will concede my argument. No honest person has ever said there is the same level of interest.

More likely, you are refusing to admit what is plainly true. Demanding "proof" is the essence of the problem. The only truly quantifiable "equality" is to create equal numbers of opportunities, and this simply ignores reality. Any attempt to quantify the disparity in interest levels is susceptible to challenge as to the exact number (ie it should be higher or lower), so it is easier to just allow boys to be screwed over. After all, haven't men had all the advantages for so long? It is time they were disadvantaged, isn't it?

Do you also need proof that women are different from men? How is the difference to be quantified?

Tell me if you honestly think there are as many women interested in participating in sports as men.

Tell me if you honestly think it is fair that men's teams are being cut despite more than sufficient interest in the teams.

Since you're done with your diatribe, I eagerly await your answer to my question. I see just as many woman who are interested in sports as men. I'm not claiming that what I see is true for the entire sports community, you are the one making that claim. So, I ask again where is your data?

[BD80]

Since you're done with your diatribe, I eagerly await your answer to my question. I see just as many woman who are interested in sports as men. I'm not claiming that what I see is true for the entire sports community, you are the one making that claim. So, I ask again where is your data?

Sorry, thought I had answered your question. I've seen data referred to but don't have it to cite to you. I do have the anecdotal evidence that I referred to. Strong, convincing evidence of having TRIED to find girls willing to participate in sports (ANY sports that we could create a team for) and talking to the girls' coaches and several ADs who lament that there are not nearly as many girls interested in participating in sports. This was a huge issue throughout the area as we tried to develop a boy's lacrosse program in Southwest Michigan and found Title IX a solid obstacle.

Now will kindly answer my questions?

Do you honestly think there are as many women interested in participating in competitive team sports as men?

Do you honestly think it is fair that men's teams are being cut despite more than sufficient interest in the teams?

Here's another question, what exactly is your sampling in which you find "just as many women interested in sports as men." I truly do disbelieve your assertion. Fitness sessions or classes don't count. We are talking about competitive sports teams. (Include competitive cheering - that is certainly a team sport).

[hughgs]

Sorry, thought I had answered your question. I've seen data referred to but don't have it to cite to you. I do have the anecdotal evidence that I referred to. Strong, convincing evidence of having TRIED to find girls willing to participate in sports (ANY sports that we could create a team for) and talking to the girls' coaches and several ADs who lament that there are not nearly as many girls interested in participating in sports. This was a huge issue throughout the area as we tried to develop a boy's lacrosse program in Southwest Michigan and found Title IX a solid obstacle.

I truly do disbelieve your assertion.

Since you "truly disbelieve my assertion" then I don't see why I should believe your assertion. So I repeat my question what data do you have that supports your contention?

[BD80]

Since you "truly disbelieve my assertion" then I don't see why I should believe your assertion.

Ah, this is the well-reasoned type of intercourse one can expect from Title IX proponents. "Don't ask me for facts or reasons, this is just the way I feel it should be. I don't care who it hurts, it is not hurting me!" Thanks for being so honest.

Well, I am sorry I pointed out to you that Title IX has been turned into a poorly reasoned social engineering project which causes more harm than good. We now return you to your regularly scheduled program of denial.

If you do ever wish to honestly explain what sampling of people would lead you to believe that women are as interested in participating in team sorts as men, I for one am willing listen. I think it is important to understand how there can be such a huge disconnect between the the judicial interpretation of Title IX and the real world.

[burnspbesq]

Ah, this is the well-reasoned type of intercourse one can expect from Title IX proponents. "Don't ask me for facts or reasons, this is just the way I feel it should be. I don't care who it hurts, it is not hurting me!" Thanks for being so honest.

Well, I am sorry I pointed out to you that Title IX has been turned into a poorly reasoned social engineering project which causes more harm than good. We now return you to your regularly scheduled program of denial.

If you do ever wish to honestly explain what sampling of people would lead you to believe that women are as interested in participating in team sorts as men, I for one am willing listen. I think it is important to understand how there can be such a huge disconnect between the the judicial interpretation of Title IX and the real world.

Y'all should really take this little spitting contest either private or to the public policy board. It seems to be locked into a non-productive cycle of "you first." I'm also seeing a fair amount of one side projecting the deficiencies in its own case onto the other. Just sayin.'

FWIW, where I live (Orange County, California) there is ample anecdotal evidence of equal participation and equal interest by boys and girls, at every level from age 5 through high school varsity competition. Just drive around to the schools and parks whose facilities are used by youth leagues on a Saturday, and notice the gender of the players. Then log onto the website of either the Los Angeles Times or the Orange County Register and review their high school sports coverage.

[DevilAlumna]

To get this on-topic, (and because if this was posted in another thread, I missed it):

Duke Men's LAX crushed UNC Friday evening, 17-6! They face UVA in the ACC Championship today, 3:30PM EDT.

[Indoor66]

To get this on-topic, (and because if this was posted in another thread, I missed it):

Duke Men's LAX crushed UNC Friday evening, 17-6! They face UVA in the ACC Championship today, 3:30PM EDT.

and it is being televised on FCSA! (Channel 723 in Fort Lauderdale, FL Comcast area.)

[SMO]

To get this on-topic, (and because if this was posted in another thread, I missed it):

Duke Men's LAX crushed UNC Friday evening, 17-6! They face UVA in the ACC Championship today, 3:30PM EDT.

9F9F9F9F9F9F

Anyone know if today's contest on the tube in the Northeast? NJ specifically?

[Lavabe]

Y'all should really take this little spitting contest either private or to the public policy board. It seems to be locked into a non-productive cycle of "you first." I'm also seeing a fair amount of one side projecting the deficiencies in its own case onto the other. Just sayin.'

FWIW, where I live (Orange County, California) there is ample anecdotal evidence of equal participation and equal interest by boys and girls, at every level from age 5 through high school varsity competition. Just drive around to the schools and parks whose facilities are used by youth leagues on a Saturday, and notice the gender of the players. Then log onto the website of either the Los Angeles Times or the Orange County Register and review their high school sports coverage.

Agreed completely (FWIW, similar conditions here in suburban Atlanta).

If you do set up a discussion at PPB, you might want to skim through the Chronicle of Higher Education over the last year, as there have been several conflicting issues going on, and you'd be discussing more than anecdotal evidence. Also, a number of books that are useful points of discussion have come out in the last year, including one co-authored by Duke former swimmer (now lawyer) Nancy Hogshead-Makar.

Cheers,
Lavabe

[Indoor66]

The game is on FSCA!

[jjasper0729]

Does anyone know when the ncaa tournament is and wwhen the first game will be (if duke hosts any)?

[Ignatius07]

It's my impression that the seeds have yet to be announced, but at the least Duke still has one regular season game against St. John's (today at 1pm) left before the NCAA tournament.

[DukieInKansas]

Does anyone know when the ncaa tournament is and wwhen the first game will be (if duke hosts any)?

Seeds will be announced tonight and the tournament starts next weekend. Men & Women.

[merry]

Duke just beat St John's. They announced afterwards that if Duke is selected to host there will be a game here next Saturday 5/10.

We arrived at the game after it was in progress and my 13 year old exclaimed there's NO ONE here! There was actually a pretty nice crowd but he is used to seeing the stands packed for lacrosse! How cool.

Also worth noting, during the game Greer broke the NCAA scoring record.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Duke just beat St John's. They announced afterwards that if Duke is selected to host there will be a game here next Saturday 5/10.

We arrived at the game after it was in progress and my 13 year old exclaimed there's NO ONE here! There was actually a pretty nice crowd but he is used to seeing the stands packed for lacrosse! How cool.

Also worth noting, during the game Greer broke the NCAA scoring record.

Also worth noting was that absolutely SICK between-the-legs goal by Danowski! That alone was worth the price of admission....had there even been a price of admission! Honestly....you folks who don't come out and enjoy this really don't know what you're missing.

It's also really heartwarming to hang around a bit after the game and watch our guys take time to grin, shake the hands and visit a bit with the starry eyed kids hanging on the fence. Gosh! They make you proud, bless their hearts.
Love, Ima

[hughgs]

Ah, this is the well-reasoned type of intercourse one can expect from Title IX proponents. "Don't ask me for facts or reasons, this is just the way I feel it should be. I don't care who it hurts, it is not hurting me!" Thanks for being so honest.

Well, I am sorry I pointed out to you that Title IX has been turned into a poorly reasoned social engineering project which causes more harm than good. We now return you to your regularly scheduled program of denial.

If you do ever wish to honestly explain what sampling of people would lead you to believe that women are as interested in participating in team sorts as men, I for one am willing listen. I think it is important to understand how there can be such a huge disconnect between the the judicial interpretation of Title IX and the real world.

I have never said that I support or reject Title IX. You made a statement about the basic premise of Title IX. I simply asked to give us some data to support your contention. At the same time I gave you anecdotal evidence that refutes your contention. Then you responded that you didn't believe me.

And now we've come to the crux of the problem. You're correct to question my anecdotal evidence. I agree that anecdotal evidence means nothing when arguing whether the basic premises of Title IX are true or false. Maybe what I see is an anomaly. But, by the same token why should I believe your anecdotal evidence. How do I know that your situation is the norm? And that's why we look for facts, not anecdotes to prove our points.

And so, once again, since you issued the original statement, I ask where's your data? You've made some wild accusations about Title IX and haven't backed any of it up with any real data. It would be like saying that you're the world's expert in nuclear physics (man, I hope you're an English major). Without any credentials or any evidence there is no reason to attach any significance to your pronouncements.