The State Of Women's Basketball

[NYC Duke Fan]

If you look at it from the outside you could say that Duke Women's Basketball is one of the top 20 programs in the country.However, if you examine it really closely you would be disappointed. A few years ago, Duke was right up there with the 2 powerhouses, UCONN and Tennessee under Coach G, and dominated ACC basketball.

Now, we lag far behind UCONN, ( Ellena Della Donne is going there and will team with the young team that they had this year), and Tennessee, ( who recruited 5 McDonald's All Americans). UNC and Maryland have come up to us and probably have overtaken us in the ACC, and I bet that Texas under Coach G will soon be there also.

I see Duke being a very good team but not be one of the top programs any more and not challenging for a national championship in the near future.

As I said, it is disappointing to see the program drop from being one of the elite programs to being just a very good one.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I believe that we are a top 10 program. This year was rough, but you'd expect that with a change like they endured. I think next year will be a much better one to make judgements from. I wasn't thrilled with all of the coaching this year, I think we had some bright spots of promise.
We played well in the post season, including a great performance against Md. In our games against Tennessee, Rutgers, Md. (Reg season), and the first one against UNC we showed we could play with anyone. Next year I'd expect to win a few more of those, but we only really looked bad twice. (UCONN, which I don't count because it was sooo early in a season of change, and the 2cnd UNC game, which was just a disaster.) I'm looking forward to next year, I'll think the program will be just fine.

[godukecom]

the first one against UNC we showed we could play with anyone.

What about that game (which was an exhibition of poor defense, rebounding, offense, and overall lackluster play) showed you the Duke could play with anyone? The first game duke lost by 17, iirc.

[CameronBornAndBred]

You're right, I was thinking both Md. games. Both carolina ones were a disaster.

[NYC Duke Fan]

I believe that we are a top 10 program. This year was rough, but you'd expect that with a change like they endured. I think next year will be a much better one to make judgements from. I wasn't thrilled with all of the coaching this year, I think we had some bright spots of promise.
We played well in the post season, including a great performance against Md. In our games against Tennessee, Rutgers, Md. (Reg season), and the first one against UNC we showed we could play with anyone. Next year I'd expect to win a few more of those, but we only really looked bad twice. (UCONN, which I don't count because it was sooo early in a season of change, and the 2cnd UNC game, which was just a disaster.) I'm looking forward to next year, I'll think the program will be just fine.

I agree the program will be fine, but not elite as we were a few years back. I see no chance of competing for a National Championship in the very near future, especially since as was posted on another thread that Coach P is not a very good recruiter

[godukerocks]

I agree the program will be fine, but not elite as we were a few years back. I see no chance of competing for a National Championship in the very near future, especially since as was posted on another thread that Coach P is not a very good recruiter

FWIW, Sports Illustrated has us at #3 for next year.

[brevity]

Duke can place as low as 3rd among ACC perennial powers and still be a top 10 program. UNC, Maryland, and Duke from the ACC, Connecticut and Rutgers from the Big East, Tennessee and LSU from the SEC, Oklahoma, and Stanford. That's 9 teams, giving a little leeway to add Baylor or maybe Notre Dame.

FWIW, Sports Illustrated has us at #3 for next year.

Out of curiosity, is this the print version? Because SI's Tracy Schultz has us at #5.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ten/index.html

I think next year's Final Four will be anything but business as usual. The biggest names of this season lose too much to graduation. That's not to say that a young UConn team (led by a soph and a frosh) can't stay on top, but that it's tougher without that extra senior leadership to slug their way through the closer games.

Duke should rebound nicely. And watch out for Cal.

[bludev03]

UConn will have Maya Moore, Tina Charles, EDD, and Renee Montgomery in the same lineup. Scaaaaaaaaaaary!

[BlueintheFace]

As I said, it is disappointing to see the program drop from being one of the elite programs to being just a very good one.

It might be disappointing, but it certainly isn't unexpected... and if it is then it might be time to follow a new sport.

If you lose the best post player in the nation (Bales), the best point guard/all around player in the nation (Harding), and one of the best coaches in the nation (Coach G) ALL IN ONE YEAR... I mean, come on. It was bound to be a down year.

[Indoor66]

It might be disappointing, but it certainly isn't unexpected... and if it is then it might be time to follow a new sport.

If you lose the best post player in the nation (Bales), the best point guard/all around player in the nation (Harding), and one of the best coaches in the nation (Coach G) ALL IN ONE YEAR... I mean, come on. It was bound to be a down year.

...And this down year team made the Sweet Sixteen!

[Inonehand]

will get Duke back to the level we were a couple of years ago. While I believe the team could have played better during the regular season, Gail wouldn't have coached this team to a deeper finish in either tournament...it just didn't have the talent. When a beloved coach leaves, there will be tough moments adjusting to different personalities. It just happens. Duke will be back because kids want to come here and Coach P is a good coach. One thing I noticed from her was amazing composure during the tournament. That I was impressed with.

[Bluedawg]

If you look at it from the outside you could say that Duke Women's Basketball is one of the top 20 programs in the country.However, if you examine it really closely you would be disappointed. A few years ago, Duke was right up there with the 2 powerhouses, UCONN and Tennessee under Coach G, and dominated ACC basketball.

Now, we lag far behind UCONN, ( Ellena Della Donne is going there and will team with the young team that they had this year), and Tennessee, ( who recruited 5 McDonald's All Americans). UNC and Maryland have come up to us and probably have overtaken us in the ACC, and I bet that Texas under Coach G will soon be there also.

I see Duke being a very good team but not be one of the top programs any more and not challenging for a national championship in the near future.

As I said, it is disappointing to see the program drop from being one of the elite programs to being just a very good one.

I could not disagree more! to base this off of a coaches first year is unfair and wrong.

WOMEN'S BASKETBALL RANKINGS		
W Basketball AP		
	
1	Connecticut	1249
2	North Carolina	1188
3	Tennessee	1158
4	Stanford	1091
5	Maryland	1027
6	LSU	1014
7	Rutgers	952
8	Texas A&M	858
9	Duke	817
10	California	788
11	Old Dominion	711
12	Baylor	705
13	Oklahoma State	552
14	Oklahoma	535
15	Notre Dame	477
16	Kansas State	436
17	West Virginia	434
18	Utah	426
19	Louisville	371
20	George Washington	352
21	Vanderbilt	263
22	Marist	222
23	UTEP	218
24	Virginia	113
25	Ohio State	86

Texas didn't make the top 25, so, since you based your evaluation on one years performance, what is your foundation for your Texas praise?

I agree the program will be fine, but not elite as we were a few years back. I see no chance of competing for a National Championship in the very near future, especially since as was posted on another thread that Coach P is not a very good recruiter

They wanted to run Coach K out his first year as well. Aren't you glad they didn't??????

[godukerocks]

Out of curiosity, is this the print version? Because SI's Tracy Schultz has us at #5.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ten/index.html

I think next year's Final Four will be anything but business as usual. The biggest names of this season lose too much to graduation. That's not to say that a young UConn team (led by a soph and a frosh) can't stay on top, but that it's tougher without that extra senior leadership to slug their way through the closer games.

Duke should rebound nicely. And watch out for Cal.

In the latest issue, Richard Deitsch has us at #3.

[godukecom]

Duke's success this past year was largely due to the fact that Gail's "leftover" talented recruits (Waner, Black, Smith, Thomas, etc) would simply overpower the lesser teams in a weak acc. Duke had little success when facing a team that was on an equal playing field talent wise.

If P can keep the talent pool high, then that will be great. The jury is still out on her, and a verdict must wait for the time being.

[cbfx3]

We will be fine...

[Duvall]

We will be fine...

I have little doubt of this. But a program that is "fine" will not win a national championship, will not win an ACC championship and will not beat North Carolina.

[JG Nothing]

Coach P will get Duke back to the level we were a couple of years ago. While I believe the team could have played better during the regular season, Gail wouldn't have coached this team to a deeper finish in either tournament...it just didn't have the talent.

This team "just didn't have the talent?" G left McCallie with eight McDonald's All-Americans and three other Parade All-Americans. That is an insane amount of talent. How much talent do you want? By the way, what kind of talent did McCallie leave for Merchant at Michigan State?
To say that G would not have coached this team to a better finish in the ACC or NCAA tournaments is pure speculation and too quickly discounts G's coaching abilities. G had seven straight 30 win seasons between 2000 and 2007. Her teams would reload, not rebuild. You do not seem to appreciate what a truly great coach and recruiter G was.
I hope you are right that McCallie gets us back to perennial 30 win seasons. G left her all the parts to do it next season. However, unless McCallie can recruit at G's level, I seriously doubt it will happen in the long term. My fear is that we have hired a Bruce Weber instead of a Bill Self.

[hughgs]

This team "just didn't have the talent?" G left McCallie with eight McDonald's All-Americans and three other Parade All-Americans. That is an insane amount of talent. How much talent do you want? By the way, what kind of talent did McCallie leave for Merchant at Michigan State?
To say that G would not have coached this team to a better finish in the ACC or NCAA tournaments is pure speculation and too quickly discounts G's coaching abilities. G had seven straight 30 win seasons between 2000 and 2007. Her teams would reload, not rebuild. You do not seem to appreciate what a truly great coach and recruiter G was.
I hope you are right that McCallie gets us back to perennial 30 win seasons. G left her all the parts to do it next season. However, unless McCallie can recruit at G's level, I seriously doubt it will happen in the long term. My fear is that we have hired a Bruce Weber instead of a Bill Self.

Pot, meet kettle. Since Coach G wasn't here to coach the team you have no way of knowing how the team would've done if she had stayed. Second, you are assuming that the high school rankings apply to the college game. And you're not taking into account the differences between the types of players that Coach G recruited and the type players that would've thrived in the offense and defense that Coach P ran. It's all speculation.

[JG Nothing]

Pot, meet kettle. Since Coach G wasn't here to coach the team you have no way of knowing how the team would've done if she had stayed. Second, you are assuming that the high school rankings apply to the college game. And you're not taking into account the differences between the types of players that Coach G recruited and the type players that would've thrived in the offense and defense that Coach P ran. It's all speculation.

My speculation is based on past performance. In 2004, we lose Beard and Tillis. The next year we go 31-5. In 2006, we lose Currie and Bass-Williams. The next year we go 32-2. Yes, we lost Harding and Bales in 2007, but we also got Black back after a season ending injury. There has been virtually no drop off in overall year-to-year performance by G's teams since the 1999 run to the Final Four. She has a track record of nine straight years of consistent excellence. That is not speculation, that is fact. It seems to me the burden of proof is on people who do not think G would have done better than McCallie with last year's team.
Also, you are correct, I am assuming that high school rankings do tell us something about college potential. Anyway you cut it, eight McDonald's All-Americans is eight McDonald's All-Americans. If you honestly think that is meaningless, then what can I say. If McCallie is unable or unwilling to take full advantage of the wealth of talent and athleticism she inherited from G, whose fault is that?

[Duvall]

It's all speculation.

It's speculation informed by the historic performance of two coaches with lengthy track records. You can't compete at the top levels of women's basketball without recruiting elite players, and a lot of them. Gail is one of the top recruiters in the game; McCallie's recruiting has historically been mediocre by high major standards.

And that's that.