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  1. #181
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
    I doubt any of Duke's starters would start for Memphis or Kansas.
    Flat BS.

  2. #182
    For the talk about how depth is so important to win a championship and how we never go deep enough, it's interesting to look at how deep the finalists from this year went in the championship game, in an OT game no less:

    Kansas - 7 players had 5 or more minutes
    Memphis - 6 players had 5 or more minutes (3 played 42+ min with Rose playing all 45 min)

    Clearly, Duke's problem is that we don't play 9-10 players every game I think pretty much every coach goes with his best 7 players or so when it's the most important game of the season (as has been demonstrated by other posters in the past). Although you could argue that Memphis was out of gas in the OT, while Kansas was fresher since they had one more player subbing in. But I think we all know that without Dorsey in OT, Memphis was just at a huge disadvantage.

  3. #183
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    I think that Kansas had the better of the play the entire game. Arthur was magnificant and was the best player on the court. All three Kansas bigs played exceptionally well, and the fourth, the one who was the best against Carolina, was barely needed.

    As for coaching, I think that the coach that made the most misstakes was Self. That box and one, and than the use of a zone after that, gave Memphis the lead that they would not have had in a straight man-up context. I think that the two defenses were designed to confuse and did not. An example of over coaching by a guy who proclaimed that he won the previous game by just letting his guys play.

    The guys in the booth calling Calipari a liar is, to say the least, unseemly. How the hell do they know that he did not tell his guys to foul? He says it on national TV and they say that it didn't happen. They should fire what's his name for saying it.

    How is it possible that Calipari would have lied about such a matter. Think about it. If his players disputed him, and said he falsely threw them under the bus, he's done. Jay needs to apologize, and fast!

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfax336 View Post
    D-Marc certainly would have started for both, there aren't really teams in the country that 3rd team all americans can't start for. I would think that Singler would start for either as well (but definitely Memphis over Dozier) and Henderson would certainly have a chance. Probably not Paulus (as much as I love him) and certainly not Lance though. Ironically enough, Scheyer actually might have the best chance of anybody besides D-Marc.
    For Kansas, who does Dmarc start over?

    Mario Chalmers (tourney MOP) or Brandon Rush (team's leading scorer)? I'm sorry, but from what I saw of Dmarc, the last 2.5 months of the season, there is no way he starts over either of those.

    Who does Dmarc start over for Memphis? Certainly not CDR - maybe Antonio Anderson.

    If Singler is playing more in his natural position, I'm starting Darrell Arthur over him. If he's playing the 4 spot, he might have a better chance, although right now, the 250lb senior Darnell Jackson starts on my team.

    For Memphis, I might start Singler over Dozier. With Dozier being a junior, it would be close though.

    Anyway, bottom line - both teams are more talented than Duke regarless of high school rankings.

  5. #185
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
    For Kansas, who does Dmarc start over?

    Mario Chalmers (tourney MOP) or Brandon Rush (team's leading scorer)? I'm sorry, but from what I saw of Dmarc, the last 2.5 months of the season, there is no way he starts over either of those.

    Who does Dmarc start over for Memphis? Certainly not CDR - maybe Antonio Anderson.

    If Singler is playing more in his natural position, I'm starting Darrell Arthur over him. If he's playing the 4 spot, he might have a better chance, although right now, the 250lb senior Darnell Jackson starts on my team.

    For Memphis, I might start Singler over Dozier. With Dozier being a junior, it would be close though.

    Anyway, bottom line - both teams are more talented than Duke regarless of high school rankings.
    I could see Nelson starting for UNC and Memphis. He'd start for UNC ahead of Ginyard, as he's better both offensively and defensively. He'd start at Memphis ahead of Anderson, despite being probably three inches shorter. He might or might not start at UCLA, as Westbrook is really good with the ball as a second attacking playmaker, and Schipp is a really good perimeter shooter. He certainly COULD start, but it would come down to how Howland wanted to play his rotation. As for Kansas, he would not start over Rush. And given how strong Chalmers is defensively, I'd be inclined to believe he'd be the sixth man there.

    Also, I'd say Singler would start at UCLA at the four spot. Singler might also start at UNC over Thompson. Given what Kansas likes to do, I suspect Singler wouldn't start at Kansas. He might, however, start at Memphis. Memphis had a pretty good post scorer in Dozier and a dominant defensive presence in Dorsey. It would depend whether Calipari wanted Dozier's post scoring or Singler's scoring versatility.

    That said, I think this is a pointless discussion. Nelson and Singler might or might not start given team tendencies, but they'd play substantial (20+) minutes for sure. And we have several other players who have the potential to start on any of those teams given time/experience. Henderson, Scheyer, and Smith, for example, all would bring something very valuable to each of those teams.

  6. #186
    ^ The point is: Duke doesn't have as much talent despite having a "better" recruiting class. You can't put too much stock in high school rankings. They are a pretty accurate estimate, but not science.

    You said it yourself - Duke would likely start no one at Kansas and maybe 1 player at Memphis (Dmarc over Antonio Anderson).

    Sure, many Duke players would make a significant contribution (I have no doubt), but that isn't the point. The two teams playing for this year's national championship were on a different level talent wise.

  7. #187
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    Flat BS.
    Uhhhh, which one of our starters do you think would start for either Memphis or Kansas and who would they start over? I agree with eddiehaskell.

  8. #188
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    The only player I saw on either team who absolutely would have started for Duke as a freshman was Rose. Duke has one senior and one junior getting major minutes. Both Memphis and Kansas have four juniors and seniors getting similar minutes. I don't think there's much difference in the talent level. Memphis and Kansas have more experienced talent than Duke. That's one reason why Duke should be better next year. Our talent gets older.

    Here are the top seven for each team in the general order of minutes played per game.

    Memphis
    Rose Fr, Douglas-Roberts Jr, Dozier Jr, Anderson Jr, Dorsey Sr, Taggert So, Allen Sr

    Kansas
    Rush Jr, Chalmers Jr, Arthur So, Jackson Sr, Collins So, Robinson Sr, Kaun Sr


    Duke
    Nelson Sr, Singler Fr, Paulus Jr, Henderson So, Scheyer So, Thomas So, Smith Fr
    Last edited by camion; 04-08-2008 at 02:44 PM.

  9. #189
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I could see Nelson starting for UNC and Memphis. He'd start for UNC ahead of Ginyard, as he's better both offensively and defensively. He'd start at Memphis ahead of Anderson, despite being probably three inches shorter. He might or might not start at UCLA, as Westbrook is really good with the ball as a second attacking playmaker, and Schipp is a really good perimeter shooter. He certainly COULD start, but it would come down to how Howland wanted to play his rotation. As for Kansas, he would not start over Rush. And given how strong Chalmers is defensively, I'd be inclined to believe he'd be the sixth man there.

    Also, I'd say Singler would start at UCLA at the four spot. Singler might also start at UNC over Thompson. Given what Kansas likes to do, I suspect Singler wouldn't start at Kansas. He might, however, start at Memphis. Memphis had a pretty good post scorer in Dozier and a dominant defensive presence in Dorsey. It would depend whether Calipari wanted Dozier's post scoring or Singler's scoring versatility.

    That said, I think this is a pointless discussion. Nelson and Singler might or might not start given team tendencies, but they'd play substantial (20+) minutes for sure. And we have several other players who have the potential to start on any of those teams given time/experience. Henderson, Scheyer, and Smith, for example, all would bring something very valuable to each of those teams.
    I'd have to disagree. No way Demarcus starts over Antonio Anderson for Memphis and I think him starting over Ginyard is feasible but still probably unlikely. The only one I could maybe see is Singler starting at the 4 for UCLA but Mbah a Moute is no slouch, now. Besides that one, I think you're really stretching, CDu.

    Like you said, however, this is totally pointless speculation.

  10. #190
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh

    t-shirt

    Quote Originally Posted by dukeimac View Post
    This isn't anything to do with the fact that KU beat his team a few nights before this happened.

    Roy's first mistake was to go public with the fact that he was hurt that some KU fans still hold a grudge against him for leaving KU the way he did. He has moved on to UNC and he should more than happy with the UNC support. It would show that he has moved on and was happy with UNC. The hurt feeling might indicate he hasn't.

    Secondly, being he made point 1 publicly known, his act of wearing the jayhawk sticker was bound to make some KU fans a little happier but make some UNC fans worry about his loyalty to UNC.

    Supporting, cheering for a team is one thing but wearing something of theirs is another.

    This all reminds me of that picture of Roy standing next to that guy with the shirt that says "I don't give a #$%^ about North Carolina."
    Correction-it was I don't give a $h1t about north carolina(hope that makes it by the filters/censors

  11. #191
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    North Wilkesboro
    Who do you think Larry Brown wanted to win?

  12. #192

    Ribbon

    I, for one, am appalled that the chicken took the place of the Eve ribbon. This is further proof that ribbons for any cause are just for show. They don't do anything but make the sanctimonious wearer feel better and allow those same people to vilify non-ribbon wearers.

  13. #193
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Chicago
    Well, think of it this way, if he didn't look stupid in the ugly blue jacket, he looked even more like an idiot wearing a sticker on his shirt. I think it was a slap in the face to his UNC team quite frankly. If I was on the team, I would really peeved off.

  14. #194
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Inman, SC & Fort Myers, FL
    Best situation -- Duke goes to final four, and wins game.

    Second best situation -- UNC goes to final four, loses, and is further humiliated by idiotic coach supporting the team who beat them.

  15. #195
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Palatine, IL
    I think right now the comparison isn't fair. Duke this year was clearly not ready for a deep run, so comparising starters is a bit moot. What we should look at is down the road. For example, look at Kansas the past 3 years:

    2005 - lost in first round
    2006 - lost in first round
    2007 - lost in Elite Eight

    That 2004 class that lost in the 2005 first round was the foundation of this year's championship team, with freshmen Kaun, Jackson, and Robinson, now all seniors. 2005, they bring in Rush, Wright (gone), and Chalmers. 2006, they have a nice core now and bring in Arthur and Collins.

    This year they bring in Aldrich . . but they didn't even really need him. They had a senior and junior core that has improved each year and was ready for the big stage this year. Their defense on Rose and CDR last night was outstanding. Every starter that they have will probably start for every other team in America. This is an example of how the "richest" team - ie the most complete collection of talent and athleticism - won.

    And this is why I'm looking forward to the Duke team of 2009-10. Hopefully, these are the 7 guys that we can count on, and compare favorably, to every other team come April 2010:

    4 guards: Scheyer (sr), Nolan (jr), EWill (so), Boynton (fr)

    3 forwards: Singler (jr), Thomas (sr), 2009 recruit* (fr)

    * Obviously, that 3rd forward, the 2009 recruit, is still up in the air. But regardless of whether we get a 5 star, or Zoubek (sr) improves enough to merit 15/20 minutes in a championship game, I think we're covered in that area. That’s 2 seniors, 2 juniors, 1 soph, 2 frosh. THAT is the combination of talent and athleticism that Kansas has this year . . and hopefully will get us far in 2010.

    I also invite you to check out my game blog for the Memphis - Kansas game, hot off the press! Enjoy:

    http://5on5.blogspot.com/2008/04/1s-...blog-ncaa.html

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