I hate UNC!

[Uncle Drew]

Growing up in NC is enough entitlement to say that what I feel towards them is a form of hate--like dad said, not necessarily that you wish them harm but hope something bad happens to them. Their fan base is easily the most arrogant that I have ever had to encounter--they BELIEVE the rhetoric that they spout and it is just unbearable. They are the only people I know who regularly HAVE to contact you if your team loses, regardless if their team was the one who did beat you....and if it was their team that did the deed you never hear the end of it. They will incessantly remind you for the better part of a week and purposely attempt to get under your skin merely for that reason. I know I always root against unc and always will but when they lose I not trying to actively engage them to let them know just how much I enjoyed that they lost (I keep that warm, fuzzy feeling inside and not said to them) but without fail, they will come to me in multiple droves to talk about just to say how they were jobbed/robbed/were hurt/etc. A perfect example of their behavior was with the Belmont game--I'm at work (unfortunately) and while working I've got no less that 5 different unc fans calling me on my work Nextel to remind me we're losing the game at that point. Gee, thanks....now leave me alone so I can work and sweat the bullets in private!! It really is their fans that brings out the hatred but they've had players over the years (Scott Williams, King Rice, Eric Munster-oss, Rasheed Wallace--oh I couldn't stand him...., Vince Carter and his chest-thumping, and now Hanstravel) that have brought the feelings out, too. With Hanstravel it's not so much his aggressiveness (which a lot of times is admirable) but it's just everything he gets away with. I've never seen a guy get away with so much so consistently in hoops this side of Jordan in the nba--constant reach overs, over the back, hip/knee bumps, initiating contact (leaping into defenders arms yet the defender gets the foul every time??), and, of course, the 3 to 4 steps we see him do. That's what bothers me about him. And do I need to mention their coaches? Dean, oh Dean. . .he was just so smug that it drove me mad. D'OHerty made you want to slug him--really, a coach starting trouble with our players on the court and then backpeddles with his arms up like he did nothing? And now ol' Roy. Dad gum it all he frikkin' is the second coming of Dean with his attitude but the stories I've read on the site where he will say and act one way as a public face but behind the curtain is so different says a lot for their program as a whole to me. That's really the breakdown of hatred--fans, players, coaches. They can bring out the worst in their fellow hole fans when they congregate and love nothing more than to insult a Blue Devil. Hope none of you who chose to read my (first!!!!) post fell asleep reading it all but for what I've had to be exposed to from the hole fans since about age 10 to now (age 31) has been a bear to deal with and will have to continue to deal with. Let's strike back hard next year and continue to improve--go Duke!!!

Mojo, that was one of the best posts I have read on here in quite a while. It was almost like you were reading from my diary. Truth be told since 99% of us have little or no interaction with present or former UNC players, most of our loathing is based on what we see on TV and from their fans. (Although George Lynch did spot my Duke sticker at the mall one day and told me, "Duke sucks". To which I replied, "Carolina swallows" and we both had a good laugh.) There are people on DBR who will say they respect UNC as a school, it's players and coaches, and that the Duke vs UNC rivalry needs each other to be good. I am a firm believer that hating one's enemy makes a person try that much harder to defeat said enemy at any cost. Yes I want to see Duke win 24/7, I guess the difference is some Duke fans see Duke vs the Evil Empire as a friendly thing. I see UNC as not only standing in the way of Duke's continued success but the goal of achieving even greater heights of success.

I think one of the things that makes me want to wretch my guts out about UNC is the quote unquote "Carolina Family". Kenny Smith, Stewart Scott, Larry Brown, George Karl, Mitch Kupchak, Roy Williams, Mia Hamm, Michael Jordan etc. all freely extoll the vitues and dogma of UNC in print and any time a camera is aimed on them. I swear it's like some secret skull and bones society where they are all plotting to turn things to putrid blue and give UNC every advantage they can however they can. Duke gets slammed by fans of every school in the country, and it irritates me to know end that they can't see UNC is the Evil Empire trying to keep them down, NOT Duke. Maryland fans have somehow gotten it in their head that Duke is standing between them and greatness. Apparently their memory only goes back ten years and they don't remember UNC rules, in UNC's conference in games being officiated by UNC refs.

I suppose perspective is different if you became a Duke fan while attending Duke. But for those of us who remember when Duke was waaaay down and every bloody college basketball fan in the state of North Carolina seemed to be either a UNC or NCSU fan, it's actually amazing to see what Duke has done in the Coach K era. I can't say I want death, injurry or personal loss on any UNC fan, player or coach. But I do want them to fail on the court / field misreably while at UNC and in the professional ranks. And when a Marion Jones, James Worthy, Lawrence Taylor scandal does hit I do feel for their families and loved ones. But the mere fact they are tarheels makes my sympathy for them much less if non existant.

I did not go to Duke, for financial, GPA, program major and other reasons but I truly admire those of you who did and were able to. When an alum starts spouting off how much better the acadmics are at Duke, it does sound a little elitist. But as an arrogant person I say more power to you and you paid the price to attain a very difficult goal. Duke does get a bad rap for elitism, right or wrong and UNC loves to use that stupid line about being the University of the people and for the people. In other words the school for the common man to attend. We all know UNC is NOT an easy school to get into, if for no other reason than the fact that so many people apply each year. But please someone inform me what is attractive about going to the school of the common man? Who wants to be common? I'm not saying if you are a Duke grad you are entitled, but you should certainly be considered more special than someone who went to Kennesaw State College in Georgia. If our lives are about becoming the best person we can be and learning as much as we can durring this thing called life wouldn't attending a higher HIGHER academic institution me the best choice all things given?

Things between Duke and UNC fans have gotten more heated than they ever were 25 years ago. Duke was viewed as the lovable losers and UNC were the kings of the state. If you went to your local mall you never saw anyone wearing Duke shirts or hats. Well after a few national championships UNC sees Duke as a threat to their 50 year superiority in the state of North Carolina and they aren't quite as perky as they used to be. They will always own the media due to having more journalism majors in this country than there are Al Queda members worldwide. And those grads will take every poshot at Duke they can and blow light blue smoke up the glutimus maximus of anyone stupid enough to bend over. I want to see a nice scandal hit them along the lines of what is going on at USC and Indiana right now. No scratch that I want to see scandal hit UNC like the one that hit CCNY in the 1950's and be done with them for good. You may hate UNC Mojo, I hate them more.

[Stray Gator]

Another morehead story, paraphrased:

morehead committee member: "what other schools are you applying to?"
candidate: "Duke and X, Y and Z universities"
m.c.m.: "Why would you EVER want to go to Duke(apparently asked in about as sarcastic and arrogant tone as possible)?"
candidate: "because I want to stay in the South for college and Duke is the best university in the South"
m.c.m: "oh"

interview ended very shortly after that exchange.

I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.(s)

I don't know where you heard that story, devildeac, but that is precisely what happened to me--and I mean word for word--except the "oh" response from the committee member at the end was more of a "harumph." And the interview ended immediately, with the committee chair saying, under raised eyebrows, "Well, thank you then" and closing his file folder.

[devildeac]

new t-shirt sighting (on my daughter's boyfriend-he's a fine, young intelligent gentleman):

front-"the only thing I hate more than carolina basketball...

back-"is carolina fans"

classic. priceless.

[godukerocks]

I would like to say, that I also hate Johns Hopkins.

[Karl Beem]

I guess JH doesn't hate us.

[godukerocks]

Well, too bad for them, we have championship caliber teams other than just lacrosse.

How did they become such a powerhouse anyway? They don't compete in the same way in any other sport.

Sorry. Lax thread, I know.

[Bostondevil]

Going way back and somehow I doubt it gets read by Aziggazoomba, but when I was growing up in Durham, that's what State fans said, Aziggazoomba, I mean.

It's the DBR, we can spell TarHeel anyway we want. What if one of us went over to IC and said, "Ahem, it's Duke, not (wow, DBR won't let me spell it with 2 o's, maybe that's why we're cleaner around here.)" Would we be treated civilly, I wonder?

I also hate Johns Hopkins now, quite a bit actually. I hate Holy Cross too but for different reasons, although not the women's basketball team, them I like.

A poster on the OTB sent us to IC recently for a thread that I couldn't find. I did however find one about how with Boozer out of the NBA playoffs, once again all Dukies were gone. They then went on to brag about how many UNC players had won NBA Championships including the remarkable careers of Scott Williams (apparently he was on those early '90s Bulls teams with Jordan, who knew?) and Hubert Davis. Hubert Davis! I kid you not. Then there was a small discussion about whether he should count or not because he was no longer actually riding the bench for the Pistons come playoff time. Please.

OK, so no Dukies have won NBA Championships except for Danny Ferry in the Coach K era, so what? Take Michael Jordan away and the Heels have Rasheed Wallace and Hubert Davis (disputed). Some comparison. Let's face it, Wake Forest owns both of us in that respect. Except since Kobe has stated openly that if he had gone to college he would have gone to Duke, I say we get to count his 3.

I know, you can't take Michael Jordan away, but raise your hand if you think he would have been just as great if he'd gone somewhere else for college.

[upstateny]

I think James Worthy had some success in the NBA finals.

[Bostondevil]

The point of thread was the Coach K era. Yes, yes, Worthy finished his career in the early years of Coach K but they were really discussing post '86 stuff.

[CDu]

Going way back and somehow I doubt it gets read by Aziggazoomba, but when I was growing up in Durham, that's what State fans said, Aziggazoomba, I mean.

It's the DBR, we can spell TarHeel anyway we want. What if one of us went over to IC and said, "Ahem, it's Duke, not (wow, DBR won't let me spell it with 2 o's, maybe that's why we're cleaner around here.)" Would we be treated civilly, I wonder?

I also hate Johns Hopkins now, quite a bit actually. I hate Holy Cross too but for different reasons, although not the women's basketball team, them I like.

A poster on the OTB sent us to IC recently for a thread that I couldn't find. I did however find one about how with Boozer out of the NBA playoffs, once again all Dukies were gone. They then went on to brag about how many UNC players had won NBA Championships including the remarkable careers of Scott Williams (apparently he was on those early '90s Bulls teams with Jordan, who knew?) and Hubert Davis. Hubert Davis! I kid you not. Then there was a small discussion about whether he should count or not because he was no longer actually riding the bench for the Pistons come playoff time. Please.

OK, so no Dukies have won NBA Championships except for Danny Ferry in the Coach K era, so what? Take Michael Jordan away and the Heels have Rasheed Wallace and Hubert Davis (disputed). Some comparison. Let's face it, Wake Forest owns both of us in that respect. Except since Kobe has stated openly that if he had gone to college he would have gone to Duke, I say we get to count his 3.

I know, you can't take Michael Jordan away, but raise your hand if you think he would have been just as great if he'd gone somewhere else for college.

I'm not sure I see the point. As you said, you can't take Jordan away. Of course he would have been just as great somewhere else. But that's kind of irrelevant. He DIDN'T go somewhwere else. Wake doesn't have UNC beat in any respect. UNC has Jordan's six, Kenny Smith's two, and Rasheed's one. That's 9 of the 22 in the era that you're discussing. And if you include the two that Worthy won since 1986, then you've got 11 of the 22 titles in which UNC had a key starter involved. So even if you take Jordan's six away, you'd have five for UNC and four for Wake. And if you do the same thing with Duncan that you do with Jordan, it's five to zero.

It's kind of a pointless discussion, if you ask me. UNC has been incredibly prolific in the NBA for decades. We've certainly had less NBA success until recently, but now our players are doing better individually in the League. But who cares? Duke doesn't play in the NBA, and neither does UNC. The "NBA success" thing is the type of argument that UNC fans would make to try to discount the fact that no college basketball team has been more successful in the ESPN era than Duke.

[Bostondevil]

What's my point? That it's a lame argument to compare success of UNC players in terms of winning NBA Championships to Coach K players winning NBA Championships when what you really have is Rasheed Wallace and Kenny Smith. Forgot about Kenny Smith until someone reminded me, who did he play for? Did he start? I think Rick Fox might have been on those Shaq-Kobe Lakers teams too. But those Lakers teams sure didn't win because they had Rick Fox. In that respect, the Spurs didn't win because they had Danny Ferry either. I'm not a big NBA fan, can you tell? I watch the Celtics with my husband but that's about it.

If you're limiting it, truly, to the Coach K era then I say you don't get to count Micheal Jordan's 6 championships because, well, technically Coach K could have recruited him, I suppose, but he was a first year coach at Duke when Jordan was a high school senior. How early did Jordan commit? I'll argue that Coach K missed that opportunity before he ever came to Duke so . . . Recruiting Jordan would be a whole new animal today, he might have even grown up a Devils fan.

I just read the glee expressed in the thread over at IC and thought, lame, lame, lame, particularly when they brought up Hubert Davis as though his riding the bench for the Pistons proves that UNC is better than Duke. In the past UNC has produced better pros, yes, I don't think that's true any longer but I will concede that it used to be true. If the baby blues want to hang onto that to make themselves feel better, well, OK, but it's still lame to talk about winning NBA championships as though these teams wouldn't have done it without a Heel on the roster.

[devildeac]

What's my point? That it's a lame argument to compare success of UNC players in terms of winning NBA Championships to Coach K players winning NBA Championships when what you really have is Rasheed Wallace and Kenny Smith. Forgot about Kenny Smith until someone reminded me, who did he play for? Did he start? I think Rick Fox might have been on those Shaq-Kobe Lakers teams too. But those Lakers teams sure didn't win because they had Rick Fox. In that respect, the Spurs didn't win because they had Danny Ferry either. I'm not a big NBA fan, can you tell? I watch the Celtics with my husband but that's about it.

If you're limiting it, truly, to the Coach K era then I say you don't get to count Micheal Jordan's 6 championships because, well, technically Coach K could have recruited him, I suppose, but he was a first year coach at Duke when Jordan was a high school senior. How early did Jordan commit? I'll argue that Coach K missed that opportunity before he ever came to Duke so . . . Recruiting Jordan would be a whole new animal today, he might have even grown up a Devils fan.

I just read the glee expressed in the thread over at IC and thought, lame, lame, lame, particularly when they brought up Hubert Davis as though his riding the bench for the Pistons proves that UNC is better than Duke. In the past UNC has produced better pros, yes, I don't think that's true any longer but I will concede that it used to be true. If the baby blues want to hang onto that to make themselves feel better, well, OK, but it's still lame to talk about winning NBA championships as though these teams wouldn't have done it without a Heel on the roster.

please let's stop this discussion now! Mods, please remove all these posts discussing unc and the nba. Next thing you know, one of them will get the idea to hang nba championship banners in the dump on the hump and take credit for even more championships the university didn't win.

[rsvman]

new t-shirt sighting (on my daughter's boyfriend-he's a fine, young intelligent gentleman):

front-"the only thing I hate more than carolina basketball...

back-"is carolina fans"

classic. priceless.

I went to a fund-raising walk last weekend and there was a guy there who was a UVa fan and was wearing a decidedly anti-Carolina UVa shirt.
It said: "Friends don't let friends go to Carolina."
Kind of cliche, but mildly amusing. But then, in smaller print, on the bottom of the back of this shirt, it said:

"Partnership for a TarHeel-free America."

That made me laugh out loud. Could we borrow this phrase and get it on some shirts?

[WiJoe]

new t-shirt sighting (on my daughter's boyfriend-he's a fine, young intelligent gentleman):

front-"the only thing I hate more than carolina basketball...

back-"is carolina fans"

classic. priceless.

Please find out where that shirt was purchased.

GOTTA have one.

Jerry in Wisconsin

[Bostondevil]

please let's stop this discussion now! Mods, please remove all these posts discussing unc and the nba. Next thing you know, one of them will get the idea to hang nba championship banners in the dump on the hump and take credit for even more championships the university didn't win.

I wouldn't put it past 'em, but I will comply with your request, devildeac.

[devildeac]

Please find out where that shirt was purchased.

GOTTA have one.

Jerry in Wisconsin

I have asked him to PM you later today or tomorrow. He thinks he bought it at Pro Image, a sports shop at Triangle Town Center, a large mall in north Raleigh.

[ArnieMc]

You can design your own t-shirts at a ton of places for about $25 delivered. I have successfully used t-shirts.com.

[Uncle Drew]

The NBA TITLES / RINGS UNC players have won is rivaled by no other school as much as I loathe to admit it. And while I hate Michael Jordan with a passion, he basically donated rings to other UNC players by insisting they be on the bulls. Scott Williams riding the bench was his call to management who did anything ad everythig he asked. I also recall about his second or third year insisting they trade a Duke player, (Gene Banks maybe?) And a trade went down. Scott Williams has three rings, THREE! I'm not going to even bother researching how many minutes he played per game or how much he scored or rebounded. But it's safe to say Scott Williams deserved those rings like Rosie O'Donnel deserves a Miss America title.


As for Kenny Smith and Worthy they were both starters and key figures on championship teams. That being said Worthy and Smith were both second or third options on the Rockets and Lakers back in the day. So while they definately contributed and did something to earn their rings they certain weren't "the man". Unless anyone here thinks they are better than Hakeen, Magic or Karem. Again while both players were good they were put in the right situations to contribute and with the right players to ride the coat tails of. Perhaps the best player (at least in college) of the 1982 UNC team was Sam Perkins and he never won a ring and only managed a few playoff appearances.


The only Duke players I know to win a ring were Jeff Mulins with the (1974 I think) California (no not Golden State yet) Warriors and Danny Ferry with the Spurs a few years back. Mr. Mullins was a 1st or second option while Ferry saw limited duty. But a ring is a ring for Duke just like it is for UNC players. But quite a few of them thought Carter, Stackhouse and Jamison would have rings by now and they don't. Grant Hill was probably Duke's best shot to be "the man" and get a ring. But injury slowed what was headed for a hall of fame career. Lettner as awesome as he was in college was at best a second or third option in the NBA and never had great players along side him. Boozer and Brand are both high class talent and possible HOF's if injuries don't deter their careers.


Sometimes you have to get in the right, or a better situation to succeeed. (See Mike D in Indy for example.) I doubt JJ will ever be a star but he could certainly be a vital role player on a really good team and win a ring. Maggette and Deng are both great athletes who could be this missing piece for many NBA teams. UNC touting their NBA rings is funny because it took being on the right team for the most part. Aside from Jordan none of their players was "the man" and the year Jordan was allowed to earn fifty million dollars and bypass the sallary cap for a year, that would have been fine with me. But he should have been playing with the Fuquay Varina highschool boys team every night. I'd love to see how he would have done with THOSE team mates.


NBA rings will come, the odds just end up working in Duke's favor when they have so many players on so many teams. The problem is it is mostly out of their hands and up to coaches and executives to decide who plays along with them. Right now if you said what school is producing the best NBA players the answer is very simple...NO SCHOOL. With Lebron, Kobe, Amare etc. skipping college and making an instant impact they out rank Duke, UNC, UCONN, UK etc. It will be interesting to see how any two year rule affects where top players go to school over the next few years. One and dones have gotten schools to the moutain top over the past few years, but aside from Carmello haven't allowed them to plant their school flag on top of Everest.


Does anyone recall a guy by the name of Matt Fish who sat on the bench for four years at UNC but got drafted because of his height and spent another ten years in the NBA riding the bench their too? I can see why players want to attend UNC. Even their bench players have long NBA careers.