Huh? Duke is America's Favorite College Team?

[_Gary]

As for why Duke is so much more hated than anyone else, it's a combination of success (and therefore lots of exposure), our status as an elite private school, and white guys (who are always the most hated Duke players). No other program has that combination, and there's a lot of subconscious psychology involved.

All those things are important and add to the "Duke hatred stew", but I still believe that the primary ingredient is a good dose of anti-Duke bias in the media. Many people seemingly don't want to admit this, but I'm of the opinion that we have to call a spade a spade. If you take that one spice out of the stew I guarantee you we are not hated to the degree we are now. It's by far the biggest reason, IMHO.


Gary

[coastal1]

All those things are important and add to the "Duke hatred stew", but I still believe that the primary ingredient is a good dose of anti-Duke bias in the media. Many people seemingly don't want to admit this, but I'm of the opinion that we have to call a spade a spade. If you take that one spice out of the stew I guarantee you we are not hated to the degree we are now. It's by far the biggest reason, IMHO.

Gary

Honestly??

ESPN, which is the primary source of college bball media, loves Duke.

The poster boy of the network (Vitale) doesnt even try to disguise his love for Duke. Mike Patrick barely does. Bob Knight is obviously loves K. The only prominent person on ESPN who doesnt profess their love for Duke is Bilas, but we all know where his heart is.

Then you look around at CBS/SI/Other networks and its not nearly as noticeable. But you still find Seth Davis, a Duke grad. Gman, who announced the whole ACC tourney - Duke. Bucky Waters - Duke...Packer hates everyone. Raftery doesnt hate anyone.


I'm not keeping score, but I doubt you can find another school w/ as many fans in the media. If anything Duke is the media favorite, not the enemy... Also, follow the money

[_Gary]

Honestly??

ESPN, which is the primary source of college bball media, loves Duke.

The poster boy of the network (Vitale) doesnt even try to disguise his love for Duke. Mike Patrick barely does. Bob Knight is obviously loves K. The only prominent person on ESPN who doesnt profess their love for Duke is Bilas, but we all know where his heart is.

Then you look around at CBS/SI/Other networks and its not nearly as noticeable. But you still find Seth Davis, a Duke grad. Gman, who announced the whole ACC tourney - Duke. Bucky Waters - Duke...Packer hates everyone. Raftery doesnt hate anyone.


I'm not keeping score, but I doubt you can find another school w/ as many fans in the media. If anything Duke is the media favorite, not the enemy... Also, follow the money

Oh my. I respectfully yet strongly agree to disagree with you on this one. ESPN loves the money Duke makes for them, but the studio guys and many of the commentators do NOT love Duke. Using Vitale isn't a good example of a guy that loves Duke because he loves everyone! Patrick is a chameleon who blends in with whoever he's working with. And Bob Knight just started, so let's leave him out of the equation since I'm talking about a cumulative effect that's been going on for a good 7 years now.

I'm not going to go down the list with you on each commentator. Just read the DBR article linked after last year's loss to VCU and you'll get a sense for what I'm talking about. I doubt it's too hard of a find, and it communicates my point beautifully.


Gary

[_Gary]

Here's the article I'm referring to. It's one of the very best on the subject of Duke hating, IMHO. Actually, it's the very best I'm aware of. It should be required reading for DBR members as far as I'm concerned.

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=22259


Gary

[ArtVandelay]

I don't know why this is so surprising to everyone. We've led these polls for some time now. There's a reason why so many of our games are on national TV, and it's not because all those people that hate Duke watch all of our games (although maybe some of them do). It's because Duke has something of a national fan base. I think this is in part due to the fact that it's private, which means we don't automatically offend people's in-state loyalties. Combine that with a winning track record and a reputation (whether warranted or not) of doing things the "right way," and you get a lot of Duke fans.

I suspect that most of us on this board think that intense Duke hatred is much more ubiquitous than it actually is because you take it more personally. Granted, there IS a lot of intense Duke hatred out there, but I suspect a lot of it comes from UNC, Maryland, Kentucky, and other ACC fans (keep in mind that, as this poll reveals, there are a LOT of Carolina fans in this country as well, all of whom hate Duke). I think a lot of people root against or dislike Duke because they're the perennial favorite (call this the Yankee effect), but the deep-seated animosity is not as widespread as some seem to think. I just think everyone here may be a bit too sensitive to it. For instance, fans of most other schools think the media is in love with Duke, while many here seem to think they hate Duke.

[throatybeard]

All those things are important and add to the "Duke hatred stew", but I still believe that the primary ingredient is a good dose of anti-Duke bias in the media. Many people seemingly don't want to admit this, but I'm of the opinion that we have to call a spade a spade. If you take that one spice out of the stew I guarantee you we are not hated to the degree we are now. It's by far the biggest reason, IMHO. Gary

Gary, you keep whining about this just about every time an anti-Duke issue comes up.

[FerryFor50]

I don't know why this is so surprising to everyone. We've led these polls for some time now. There's a reason why so many of our games are on national TV, and it's not because all those people that hate Duke watch all of our games (although maybe some of them do). It's because Duke has something of a national fan base. I think this is in part due to the fact that it's private, which means we don't automatically offend people's in-state loyalties. Combine that with a winning track record and a reputation (whether warranted or not) of doing things the "right way," and you get a lot of Duke fans.

I suspect that most of us on this board think that intense Duke hatred is much more ubiquitous than it actually is because you take it more personally. Granted, there IS a lot of intense Duke hatred out there, but I suspect a lot of it comes from UNC, Maryland, Kentucky, and other ACC fans (keep in mind that, as this poll reveals, there are a LOT of Carolina fans in this country as well, all of whom hate Duke). I think a lot of people root against or dislike Duke because they're the perennial favorite (call this the Yankee effect), but the deep-seated animosity is not as widespread as some seem to think. I just think everyone here may be a bit too sensitive to it. For instance, fans of most other schools think the media is in love with Duke, while many here seem to think they hate Duke.

I think that the haters always are louder than the fans, so it always seems like there are more of them.

Plus, in general, I've found Duke fans to be much more civil and classier than other fans.

[FerryFor50]

Gary, you keep whining about this just about every time an anti-Duke issue comes up.

Who cares if he brings it up? Some people haven't read it before. At least he's consistent.

[ArtVandelay]

Plus, in general, I've found Duke fans to be much more civil and classier than other fans.

In general I've found that most fans consider themselves to be more "classy" than the fans of other schools, particularly their rival schools. I'm not saying you're wrong; I just always find this amusing.

Totally agree that the haters are louder than the fans.

[Duvall]

Who cares if he brings it up?

Whining about being hated just makes you more hateable.

[FerryFor50]

In general I've found that most fans consider themselves to be more "classy" than the fans of other schools, particularly their rival schools. I'm not saying you're wrong; I just always find this amusing.

Totally agree that the haters are louder than the fans.

Well, I went to NC State. Sat in with the fans there. Complete morons for the most part.

And yes, I can see your point.

[FerryFor50]

Whining about being hated just makes you more hateable.

But isn't this thread all about Duke being hated in the first place? It's different if you're whining about it in the "Duke-XTeam Postgame" threads. But it's entirely on-topic.

[_Gary]

Whining about being hated just makes you more hateable.

Firstly, I'm not whining about it. I'm stating one of the reasons that we are hated. I bring this up because some people seem to want to sweep that one element (media bias) under the rug. For instance, in this thread I'm responding to a poster who listed reasons for the hate but didn't mention media bias. So I added it to the list.

Secondly, I'm not worried about Throaty's comments. It's just a part of his spiel to get on my case about pretty much everything I post. It's annoying, but that's about the extent of it.

Thirdly, I bring it up hoping (almost assuredly beyond hope) that people will take notice of this glaring issue and maybe a groundswell will cause at least one person of prominence in the media to rethink the entire thing and do what they can to call the bias out, and bring the issue into the open.


Gary

[VaDukie]

I really think we should have Duke-hatred threads banned. This is just getting old.

[sagegrouse]

Exactly. As I pointed out in this post, according to facebook, Duke is #2 on the favorite list and #1 on the hated list. Here are the updated standings:

Favorite NCAAB Team Pages
1 North Carolina Tar Heels (39,198 Fans)
2 Duke Blue Devils (26,841 Fans)
3 Kansas Jayhawks (20,819 Fans)
4 Wisconsin Badgers (13,887 Fans)
5 Kentucky Wildcats (11,590 Fans)
6 UCLA Bruins (9,274 Fans)
7 Michigan State Spartans (8,963 Fans)
8 Indiana Hoosiers (8,897 Fans)
9 Texas Longhorns (8,625 Fans)
10 Tennessee Volunteers (8,612 Fans)

Despised NCAAB Team Pages
1 Duke Blue Devils (75,464 Haters)
2 North Carolina Tar Heels (36,344 Haters)
3 Florida Gators (10,795 Haters)
4 Ohio State Buckeyes (8,934 Haters)
5 Kansas Jayhawks (8,075 Haters)
6 Indiana Hoosiers (6,217 Haters)
7 UCLA Bruins (4,818 Haters)
8 Texas Longhorns (4,704 Haters)
9 Tennessee Volunteers (4,616 Haters)
10 Kentucky Wildcats (4,601 Haters)

The Harris Poll was done using generally accepted polling methods (as they and other polling companies usually do).

This vote is an on-line tabulation who saw the Web site and chose to vote. It has absolutely no statistical validity. One could assume that is was biased toward younger voters and those who care the most about college b-ball, but who knows?

sagegrouse

[coastal1]

I read that article and a lot of it is interesting, but the Media part isnt very strong. It cites Stuart Scott, yet ignores all the Duke grads in the media. And while that could be differentiated b/c he may be more 'open' in his bias, than that in turn suggests the Duke grads are less 'naked' in theirs (a media trait that is later criticized).

Basically a few anecdotal examples that any major program could point to, and useless speculation of how its somehow worse against Duke. ("When Georgetown’s Jeff Green abandoned his pivot foot before he hit the winning shot against Vandy, there was some discussion, but not what it would have been had he played for Duke.").

Likewise, the Clemson example would arguably have been worse if it was correctly construed as a major ref error that handed the game to Duke rather than a scorekeeper error.

There is certainly criticism of Duke in the media. But to cite a couple random examples and ignore both the positives that others say and the direct ties they have to Duke (Vitale, Bilas, Patrick, Seth Davis, Gman, etc.) doesnt really analyze the issue

[ArtVandelay]

I really think we should have Duke-hatred threads banned. This is just getting old.

Agree insofar as I am consistently surprised by how self-conscious fans on this board seem to be about being hated. It comes with the territory, folks. This coming from a Duke AND Yankee fan (I'm from New York and an alum, not just a bad person), which makes me just about the most hated sports fan in the country. People here need to learn to be more like Yankees fans - "Yeah, you hate the Yankees. I get it. F off."

[blueprofessor]

I agree as I said in the original post: "I realize this isn't a perfect survey of the general population as it's skewed towards a younger crowd, but it gives us an idea." It's for people who chose to actually fill out a bracket via cbssportsline's application. So, mostly people who care somewhat. At least it's not a paltry sample size of only 2,500 like the Harris poll.

...with the respondents chosen randomly.The results are reliable within the margin of error.Look at the other national polls to get an idea of the margin of error for the sample size.It is probably less than 5 percent + or -.The pluralities required to be most loved or most hated ,I'd suppose, are not large, given the significant number of choices available for the respondents.

On the other hand,the Facebook participants are "self-selected",which means they were not randomly selected. Hence, the Facebook survey is not reliable,as it is not a scientific poll.Think of the process of registering one's opinion with the local t.v. station by calling in one's response on any question posed by that station.Every voter,adult, or whatever constituted the universe did not have a chance to be randomly selected.Only those who called responded--they chose to call after "self-selecting" themselves.

Self selecting respondents (volunteers) tend to be people who have strong opinions about the matter or question about which they are registering their opinion.

Best regards.

[Duvall]

There is certainly criticism of Duke in the media. But to cite a couple random examples and ignore both the positives that others say and the direct ties they have to Duke (Vitale, Bilas, Patrick, Seth Davis, Gman, etc.) doesnt really analyze the issue

Please stop citing people with Duke degrees as evidence against the existence of Duke hatred. It doesn't count unless you can find those people actually saying positive things about Duke.

(And it's hatred, not criticism. Criticism requires actual arguments; most Duke-bashing is devoid of content.)

[billybreen]

The worst thing about all this is that Carolina is obviously way more "now" than we are. My Who's Now 2008 bracket is shot to pieces.

Awesome. I look forward to a lively roundtable discussion between Stu Scott, Stephen A. Smith, and Bill Simmons explaining the cultural importance of Nowness.