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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Crazie'11 View Post
    As a freshman this year, I had the opportunity to live in Tent Scheyer (#30) for 2+ months, and loved every bit of it. Sure it was cold, miserably so at times, but the sheer magnitude of what we were there for was unbelievable.
    Thats a little dramatic

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Udaman View Post
    I must admit (and this is coming from a 1990 grad) that the fact that the tenters have slept out about 150 nights over the past three years to watch the Duke - Carolina game, and we've gone 0-3 in those games - with Carolina leading for about 80% of the total minutes...is kind of funny.

    Guess I would be miffed too if that happened. Then again, the 150 nights of tenting is completely self-inflicted. Back in my four years, we camped out a total of 5 nights to go 1-3.
    I camped out for ~100 nights to go 1-3 (though that Capel shot makes it feel more like 2-2) and wouldn't trade it for the world. This column is embarrassing...

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Crazie'11 View Post
    As a freshman this year, I had the opportunity to live in Tent Scheyer (#30) for 2+ months, and loved every bit of it. Sure it was cold, miserably so at times, but the sheer magnitude of what we were there for was unbelievable. There are no fans more devoted to their team than the Crazies. That being said, 10 of my 11 tentmates were seniors this year, and although they were heartbroken after the loss, none of them had the gall to suggest that our players did not give enough, and that they deserved better. To do so is utterly appalling.

    You can always tell who the fairweather fans are, because they'll stop supporting our team the second we lose. This article smacks of sheer arrogance - we tent for the joy of seeing one of the greatest basketball games on earth and cheering on our team, not because we think it is our birthright as Duke fans to see a win.
    Like I posted to someone before, Yaffe does *not* say that the tenters think that they didn't try hard. I think people are really misinterpreting this line.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Brevard

    And...

    Quote Originally Posted by dukepsy1963 View Post
    it looks like "free speech" is alive and well. But, talk about being "destructive"...yeow....not much constructive criticism as far as I could see. Opinion for the most part.......

    Who would have thunk that a bloody "game" could generate such venom from otherwise intelligent human beings. And I don't mean just Duke fans here by any means. I sometimes seriously think about tearing loose that part of me that enjoys basketball so much. There are plenty of other things that are so much more important.


    Go Duke!
    What became of the concept of a "good (and appreciative) loser"? I dare say most players (regardless of team or school) are; but more and more fans around the world aren't. Why can't we appreciate the "old college try" anymore?

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by appzter View Post
    Like I posted to someone before, Yaffe does *not* say that the tenters think that they didn't try hard. I think people are really misinterpreting this line.
    Seriously... why is this so confusing for people... wal mart fans?

  6. #46
    Past performance breeds future expectations. I understand why some passionate, dedicated fans are disappointed; it's a human response.

    The issue is when people take it to the point of denigrating indviduals. While Mr. Yaffe's article has a pouty tone, it is clear he cares about the team.

    Our current players have left their hearts on the court and I value their involvement. DeMarcus is one of those guys who will have a great career -- playing or post-basketball -- because of his heart and quiet leadership. I expect great things from him. I also expect next year's team to build on this year and surprise some folks next year.

    In general, I think this discussion would go away if Coach K were to come out and say something to the effect of "we had a successful season, but at Duke we have high expectations for our program, and we are committed to delivering on those expectations"...that said, the words are less important to me than the behind-the-scenes actions to make it happen.

  7. #47
    I preferred Greg Beaton's article before the tournament (where he expressed his putting his hopes up on this team not to make his year the first since 98 to never make the final four), but I agree with Yaffe somewhat.

    Naturally, I'm scared my year (Trinity 09) will have the same fate as Yaffe and Beaton's 08 class...the class of 09 is Not looking like it's going to be of that caliber. But I will hope that it matures and becomes so...Greg Paulus was once the #1 rated PG out of HS and I feel Gerald can truly become a superstar next year.

    Maybe we do feel a bit entitled, and I hate the tenter comment in the article. But Duke is the most hated school in the world to the point of being unbearable, and the joy that 3/4 of the sport sites/newspapers seemed to share on Sunday only increases our bitterness as Duke Students in this present time and makes us have these feelings. It's hard to say "Oh well, maybe next year" when so many people are laughing (schaedenfreude much?), especially for those who are graduating without a mark that the critics come to expect from duke.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC

    Great response

    Quote Originally Posted by VaDukie View Post
    I think defining a great season as hanging a banner is a shallow measure of success. And saying that the team 'owes' the students championships for their time in K-Ville is very presumptuous. I think he places far too much value on K calling this a 'great' year. I think there isn't any year K doesn't consider great as long as our guys play hard.
    Frankly, the team doesn't owe faculty or fellow students ANYTHING. I saw 6 of the guys today in class. They are broken hearted about being back with no basketball left to play. One of them said, "You know, it's really hard to get up with no purpose." I think that's true.

    Those of you who feel that the team let you down... try being compassionate and understanding. Have you never failed to live up to an expectation? That's really hard, no matter what the age or area. These guys wanted to bring home a championship from the ACC as well as the NCAA tournament... but it didn't happen for many, many reasons. No reason to bash them.

    Instead, let's look to next year, the first time in a while where we will have a significant upperclass base. Doesn't bring Hurley, Laettner, and Hill back... nothing will (and some of you sound as though teams who don't perform like those aren't worth having!). But there are many positives to look forward to and I, for one, can't wait for the Blue-White game, 2008!
    DukeDevilDeb

  9. #49
    personally I think this whole "2nd class to graduate without a final 4" or next year being the 3rd class is really being blown out of proportion. As if the team didn't have enough pressure going into the tournament, this point was made thousand of times. I'm pretty sure that DeMarcus had to hear it every day. I think it's pretty clear that DeMarcus broke down under the sheer amount of pressure. Yes, Duke players should be able to face challenge and expectation. But there's pressure, there's unnecessary pressure. Instead of appreciating how lucky the other classes were, people take final 4 appearance as something promised to them when they matriculated.

  10. #50
    Condescending to or "threatening" the team with the attitude that they should do a better job next year, or else, is pretty ridiculous. DukeDevilDeb is right; these are still college kids we are criticizing, even the goof who wrote the Chronicle column.
    I'm saddened to hear that the players wake up missing their season but that's a part of growing, too. Coach K knows how to deal with their disappointment, he'll help them through their moments of doubt.
    I'm looking forward to the team banquet in a few weeks, should be very interesting.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    I have a couple points:

    1) I would like to correct everyone in saying that the Class of 2008 has been to a Final Four: a Women's Final Four. In fact, they have seen a championship game. Now, before you go saying that the journalist was clearly referring to the men's team, I would say that I take pride in the success of the women's team just as much as I do the men. In my 4 years at Duke, I always say that our class saw our basketball teams go to 4 Final Fours: men in '01 and '04, and women in '02 and '03. I attended the Men's Final Four in '04 (I still shudder when I talk about it) and the Women's Final Four in '03. I have attended 1st and 2nd round matchups for the men and women alike. So, to say that the Class of 2008 was so unfortunate as to not see a team go to the Final Four, they all forget how close we were to hanging another national championship banner in 2006.

    We also had field hockey go to several final fours and championship games, our lacrosse team has come within an eyelash of 2 national championships despite the recent issues they have had to deal with, and we have a 3-time defending national champion women's golf team. The soccer teams have all had success, with the men's team reaching the final four a few years ago. Football may have had very little to smile about when I was there, but I only missed 1 football game when I was there, so I was there to smile with the team when the chips fell our way. Sure, our school is considered a basketball school, and I'm the first one to harp on the success of our men's teams. But anyone who knows me knows I talk with equal pride about all our teams and their successes.

    2) Tenting is a privilege and a choice, not an entitlement or right. People lose their spots in line or get banished from the tenting process every year for various reasons. It's no one's right to be a resident of K-Ville, it's something they choose to do, and they also choose to follow the rules of K-Ville while they reside there or risk being bumped. When I was HLM, I considered it a privilege and a huge honor to serve as the man in charge. I felt lucky that I was a part of such a unique experience, one that whether people hate our team or not is viewed as one of the best things to do in any college or university in the nation. During my years, we only lost in Cameron 3 times (UNC tenting game '01, UMd tenting game '01, GT student senior game '04). But no matter what, those guys gave it their all every game. Never once did I think that it was something that was supposed to happen for me, and if it didn't then I was owed my experience back. If we lost, it only made us stronger.

    Just remember, we all bleed Duke Blue. We laugh and cheer the good times with the team. Some of us cry and scream during the rough times. But you know what? The best part about being a fan of Duke basketball - men and women - is that the next day, no matter what, you wake up the next day in eager anticipation of the next game, the next play. And do you know why the last loss of the year always hurts the most? Because for me, it means that seven months must go by before that eager anticipation I yearn will be able to return in its fullest.

    So this season didn't end with us playing in April. That doesn't mean that people should panic. If we were Insert-Random-State Directional State University, 28-6 would be something we forever talked about, where we would tell our grandchildren about the glory that was the 2008 basketball season. Getting bounced in the 2nd round wasn't something I wanted to happen. Watching us lose in person wasn't something I wanted to happen. But it did, and even though our season was cut short, for whatever reason, that's no reason to say that this season was the abysmal disaster that Yaffe claims it is. 28-6 is still a great season. It may not have ended with us raising NC banner #4, but we now focus on next year and how we can make 2009 that much better.

    We reload. We retool our offense. We retool our defense. DeMarcus, unfortunately for us, graduates, and we thank him for his galiant 4 years in a Duke uniform as our captain and the rock of our team. Yet, we have 2 great players coming in, and we have the other 10-11 players returning stronger, faster, in shape, and better. We will still be a force. "DUKE" will still be on the front of their jerseys. The entire nation will still hate us. And, I feel, we will respond.

    Now, we still have basketball to watch, as our women have made the Sweet 16. Let's cheer them on, and hopefully they play well enough to punch their own ticket to the Final Four.
    Check out the Duke Basketball Roundup!

    2003-2004 HLM
    Duke | Mirecourt | Detroit| The U | USA

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    Can we cut the guy some slack on the tenting line? I'm a junior who's tented all three years and watched us lose to Carolina all three years. I don't regret tenting, as there were other fun things about tenting with friends and cheering on the team and watching the games even though we lost, but still. . . there's no denying that those losses were very, very frustrating and disappointing. Come on, that's a pretty natural reaction, even for a devoted fan. *Especially* for a devoted fan.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by miramar View Post
    Many of the things he says are fine, but I don't like the tone of the article much. The Chronicle should remember that they are talking about fellow students, not professional players. I remember in the late 1980s that Coach K really took a Chronicle reporter to task for the same problem, with a florid vocabulary no less, but the intrepid reporter was able to record the whole thing, which made for an even more interesting second article.

    We all know that Coach K is fully aware that 28-6 is not great when you start 22-1, but these are his players, all of them young men, and he needs to build them up for next year while also sending DeMarcus out on a positive note. In that sense, he needs to remind them of all that they accomplished, which is easy to overlook because of the problems at the end of the year.

    But of course the author is young too, and is surely disappointed in the outcome just as the players are.

    One thing that I do not like much is the insistence on getting the one and done players. I realize that is the new reality, but I am not sure that is what Duke stands for. Coach K was obviously very upset when Luol Deng left after one year, and I don't know if we really want to follow the Syracuse/Carmelo Anthony example, even though it was successful in the short run.

    Finally, I disagree with the idea that Duke is not improving its players. Different players develop at different rates. Many of us remember how Elton Brand was already the POY by his sophomore year, but also how much Shane Battier improved between that same sophomore year and his POY senior season.

    I really expect to see tremendous improvement for next year, and that won't be affected by the staff's participation in the Olympics. I think Coach K sees that as his duty, which is very commendable on his part.
    I have 2 questions for you. First is where do you see, "tremendous improvement", next year ? Will the team improve...I believe they will, but ,"tremendous improvement", would imply that they could win a National championship and unless you can tell me how they are going to solve the deficiencies that existed this year and were exposed, then I do not see that happening. I am not sure that they will win as many games next year as they did this year based on the fact that the ACC should be a stronger conference.

    Secondly, what is so wrong with having a one and done player on your team if that person could, and I emphasize ,"could ", win you a championship? I am not saying that that the team should be made up of one and done players, but having one on the team is not so terrible. How would the team have looked this year with a Kevin Love, Patrick Patterson ( I know we recruited him heavily), or a Michael Beasley ?

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Atlanta, GA

    Okay DBR....Whats the Take on Today's Chronicle Article?

    Just curious to hear your Duke perspective....I personally hated the "fans sit out the cold for two months to see greatness" bit. Spare me, do you want me to play a violin? Please. Like the fan's sacrifice even begins to compare to what these kids put in 40 to 50 hours a week for this basketball team.

    However, beyond that, was there any fair critiques being made?

  15. #55

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Acworth, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Duke Fan View Post
    I have 2 questions for you. First is where do you see, "tremendous improvement", next year ? Will the team improve...I believe they will, but ,"tremendous improvement", would imply that they could win a National championship and unless you can tell me how they are going to solve the deficiencies that existed this year and were exposed, then I do not see that happening. I am not sure that they will win as many games next year as they did this year based on the fact that the ACC should be a stronger conference.

    Secondly, what is so wrong with having a one and done player on your team if that person could, and I emphasize ,"could ", win you a championship? I am not saying that that the team should be made up of one and done players, but having one on the team is not so terrible. How would the team have looked this year with a Kevin Love, Patrick Patterson ( I know we recruited him heavily), or a Michael Beasley ?
    Well, Michael Beasley wouldn't have been able to stay eligible...

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by ClosetHurleyFan View Post
    Just curious to hear your Duke perspective....I personally hated the "fans sit out the cold for two months to see greatness" bit. Spare me, do you want me to play a violin? Please. Like the fan's sacrifice even begins to compare to what these kids put in 40 to 50 hours a week for this basketball team.

    However, beyond that, was there any fair critiques being made?
    Very little. I agree with Mike Corey's take on the first page of this thread.

    The author Yaffe
    (a) overreacted to / misunderstood the usage of one word ("great") and founded his entire article on this faulty premise
    (b) condescended, as if he had a better understanding of seasons and accomplishment than Coach K
    (c) acted like he, a fan, was owed something.

    Whatever basketball critiques he may have made (and I forget if he made any) were completely muddled by the above.

    Yaffe is (presumably) young. In 10 years, he will probably be embarrassed (one would hope) by the article he wrote. It's not like he deserves to be gutted with a knife or anything. A mistake of youth (one would hope), nothing more.

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by blazindw View Post
    So this season didn't end with us playing in April. That doesn't mean that people should panic. If we were Insert-Random-State Directional State University, 28-6 would be something we forever talked about, where we would tell our grandchildren about the glory that was the 2008 basketball season. Getting bounced in the 2nd round wasn't something I wanted to happen. Watching us lose in person wasn't something I wanted to happen. But it did, and even though our season was cut short, for whatever reason, that's no reason to say that this season was the abysmal disaster that Yaffe claims it is. 28-6 is still a great season. It may not have ended with us raising NC banner #4, but we now focus on next year and how we can make 2009 that much better.

    We reload. We retool our offense. We retool our defense. DeMarcus, unfortunately for us, graduates, and we thank him for his galiant 4 years in a Duke uniform as our captain and the rock of our team. Yet, we have 2 great players coming in, and we have the other 10-11 players returning stronger, faster, in shape, and better. We will still be a force. "DUKE" will still be on the front of their jerseys. The entire nation will still hate us. And, I feel, we will respond.
    Yeah, but we're not Eastern Utah University. OK? We're Duke. 28-6 is shocking when you start out 22-1. If we'd started out 8-5, then you're right 28-6 would be great. Duke, under Coach K, used to have a reputation for peaking in March when it mattered the most. That reputation is out the window.

    I think the article is right on. The writer is focusing on making 2009 better. If this year was great, as you say, then why would we need to make all of these retoolong adjustments to make next year better anyway?

    Respond next year? This was the year we were supposed to respond to losing in the first round of the NCAAs. And the response was to squeak by the first round and get killed in the second round? I appreciate that the writer has the guts to ask the tough questions and point out the obvious, painful truth.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Edouble View Post
    Yeah, but we're not Eastern Utah University. OK? We're Duke. 28-6 is shocking when you start out 22-1. If we'd started out 8-5, then you're right 28-6 would be great. Duke, under Coach K, used to have a reputation for peaking in March when it mattered the most. That reputation is out the window.
    Yep. If that represents a "sense of entitlement", then so be it, but I've heard over and over that Duke basketball is about winning championships. We all know it's absurd to expect a NC or Final 4 every year, but that should always be the goal. Keeping in mind the notion that on "any given night", one team can knock off another, and the inherent unpredictability of the NCAA Tournament - we used to peak in March most years. For the last 3-4 we've peaked in January or early February. That IS a trend, and it would be silly to just ignore it.

    That said, I do think the article somewhat unfairly seizes upon one word used by K - saying this season was "great" is a pretty obvious overstatement, but geez.. he's a coach. Coaches overstate and understate things all the time - particularly when there's a specific reason to, i.e. the desire to *not* toss the players under the bus. They worked hard, they played hard, and K's comments read to me as an attempt to recognize that effort.

    But for anyone that really *does* think this season was "great" - wouldn't we all be laughing hysterically at our "friends" down 15-501 if they achieved similar results? I recall nearly splitting a side laughing at their very similar 2001 season.

  20. #60

    A little harsh

    I think over all the season was better then most thought going in however early wins gave everyone much hope. I do think that the comments about the development problems our big men was right on.

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