Reaction to Duke Chronicle Article?

[wisteria]

Not a rant at all. Very well said. Consider posting it under the Chronicle article.

Don't worry. Tomorrow's Chronicle reader letters will be full of replies.

[VaDukie]

Jumbo,
I respectfully disagree with you here on several points. First of all, a column does not necessarily need to "report." Yaffe made no attempt to report because he is a sports columnist providing commentary. Agree or disagree with his view, this is the purpose of the piece.

Second, Coach K brings in the crazies every year and tells them that they are the 6th man- that they are a part of the team. Coach K feels that the student body SHOULD fill Cameron and fulfill their role on the team. He expects a certain level of performance out of them and is quick to state his disappointment when they fall short (publicly and privately). K firmly believes in this student body-team relationship. That being said, why shouldn't student express disappointment when the team's performance isn't up to the standards set by Duke. If Coach K can criticize the 6th man for not living up to the program's historical standards, why can't the 6th man criticize the team and coach's performance for the exact same reason?

The Crazies give it their all and are criticized when they fall short... the team gave it their all and were criticized when they fell short. Yaffe's article looks at a lot of the same things that I'm sure the coaching staff will look at too. We are all in a state of introspection- those in the starting rotation and those who have come to be labeled by our Coach as the 6th man. Ultimately, we all want to win and such criticism hardly seemed destructive or inaccurate.

Big difference between Cameron Crazies and the players themselves: We're not competing against anyone. If we don't do our best, it's entirely on us. Sometimes our guys just face better teams.

[calltheobvious]

I'm not too familiar with the Chronicle (at least not this one) but isn't this an opinion piece?

If I might be so bold, I think Jumbo's point was not that a column need necessarily contain hard reporting, but that if it's not going to be written very well it needs something, i.e. some reporting, to help prop it up.

There are a lot of mediocre writers (and a few poor ones) who are still decent columnists because they include enough interesting news in their columns to help the readers forget they're not reading James Murray.

[BlueintheFace]

Big difference between Cameron Crazies and the players themselves: We're not competing against anyone. If we don't do our best, it's entirely on us. Sometimes our guys just face better teams.

Thats true, but my point is that by really "making us a part of the team" every year, K has allowed us to invest ourselves enough in the program to feel these emotions of disappointment and betrayal. A valid point though, to be sure.

[Jumbo]

Jumbo,
I respectfully disagree with you here on several points. First of all, a column does not necessarily need to "report." Yaffe made no attempt to report because he is a sports columnist providing commentary. Agree or disagree with his view, this is the purpose of the piece.

Au contraire. Since journalism is my field, I think I actually know something about this subject. Sure a column doesn't need reporting. A good one does. There is absolutely no context for K's quote nor factual support for many of his arguments. It's pure opinion, and unsubstantiated at that.

Second, Coach K brings in the crazies every year and tells them that they are the 6th man- that they are a part of the team. Coach K feels that the student body SHOULD fill Cameron and fulfill their role on the team. He expects a certain level of performance out of them and is quick to state his disappointment when they fall short (publicly and privately). K firmly believes in this student body-team relationship. That being said, why shouldn't student express disappointment when the team's performance isn't up to the standards set by Duke. If Coach K can criticize the 6th man for not living up to the program's historical standards, why can't the 6th man criticize the team and coach's performance for the exact same reason?

Apples and oranges. There is a difference between criticizing results and criticizing effort. And there is a huge difference between entitlement (i.e. -- we slept out in the cold for X) and exhorting (the crowd can be better, which will help us, because they are part of the team).

[appzter]

I also disagreed with that line. There is no point in this season where i don't think they gave their all.

You misread.

But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all.

Nobody thinks the players don't try. All that's being said is that, since we are such a great program, we should hold ourselves to high standards -- standards higher than those that consider a 28-6 second-round exit "great".

Moreover, the fact that our standards seem to have lessened indicates that our program has run into some problems. Yaffe tries to identify those problems as being rebounding/interior play and recruiting (which are, he says, related issues).

I disagree with the promotion of one-and-done players but agree with the idea of the article overall. And like others have said, it's an opinion column. Yaffe states his opinion and backs it up with evidence. Whether you agree with the opinion or think that the evidence is relevant/irrelevant or strong/weak is up to you.

[BlueintheFace]

Apples and oranges. There is a difference between criticizing results and criticizing effort. And there is a huge difference between entitlement (i.e. -- we slept out in the cold for X) and exhorting (the crowd can be better, which will help us, because they are part of the team).

Coach K criticizes the Crazies' effort (attendance) AND performance (loudness) from time to time. Yaffe criticizes the teams' performance (wins and losses) in this article. Both are criticizing performance. Both feel that they deserve better from time to time and both tend to be right.

[dkbaseball]

As a journalist, I found the column to be mediocre writing laced with absolutely no reporting. Yaffe, if you're reading this (and I know you are), you need an editor. Badly.

I would soften this judgment a bit; the writing is competent enough for an undergraduate. I used to be managing editor of Policy Review magazine. If I were line editing the piece, I would make two minor corrections, and re-work a sentence that was less than clear. It's a much cleaner effort than most of even the A papers I got when I was grading undergraduates.

As for the content -- yes, definitely a thumbsucker that could have benefitted from a bit of reporting, and the sense of entitlement was a bit grating. But striking the right tone, supporting your viewpoint, these are the main sorts of things you're learning as an undergrad writer. I think Yaffe's writing has a nice rhythm to it, and I would regard him as promising.

[Jumbo]

Coach K criticizes the Crazies' effort (attendance) AND performance (loudness) from time to time. Yaffe criticizes the teams' performance (wins and losses) in this article. Both are criticizing performance. Both feel that they deserve better from time to time and both tend to be right.

Again, it's apples and oranges. No one is saying Yaffe can't criticize Duke. He just has no grounds upon which to judge effort, which is what he does, nonetheless. K can judge the crowd's effort because, you know, he can hear how loud they are. Additionally, K would never say "I don't work 17 hours a day to see the corners empty in Cameron." He might say, "We should fill the corners in Cameron." One is entitlement. The other isn't. The comment about sleeping out in the cold is pure entitlement.

[buddy]

I think the column accomplished its purpose, which is to get people to look at the basketball program with something other than rose colored glasses. When the team was 22-1 (with the one loss being in OT) and had beaten Carolina (on the road), it was reasonable to hope for a much better finish. At that point the team clearly had overachieved, whether due to a relatively weak schedule, taking advantage of opponents who had not jelled, or whatever. Finishing 6-5, with a solid butt-whipping at Wake, a tense and exciting but otherwise disappointing failure to score against Carolina in the last 5:40, a totally unexpected nail biter with Belmont (BELMONT!!!), and then another solid butt-whipping by WVU, is just inexplicable in light of the first two thirds of the season. Not closing out our opponents at the end of games is very un-Duke like. There is, and should be, a close relationship between the students and the team. (Ted Roof would have killed for such a relationship.) And K has not been bashful about criticizing the students when they don't show up (see last year). Being one of two classes in 25 years or so to not make a Final Four is a little whiny. But those ARE the expectations at Duke. Expectations set by K. For many schools (see Maryland and Virginia Tech) our last two seasons would be stellar. When we are satisfied with those results, our program is bankrupt.

[Spret42]

Again, it's apples and oranges. No one is saying Yaffe can't criticize Duke. He just has no grounds upon which to judge effort, which is what he does, nonetheless. K can judge the crowd's effort because, you know, he can hear how loud they are. Additionally, K would never say "I don't work 17 hours a day to see the corners empty in Cameron." He might say, "We should fill the corners in Cameron." One is entitlement. The other isn't. The comment about sleeping out in the cold is pure entitlement.

There you go.

That line about no one sleeps in the cold just to see players give their all is purely ridiculous. You CHOSE to sleep out in the cold. And if you think doing so entitles them to constant wins life is about to wake em up.

Life will eventually show young Mr. Yaffe that effort doesn't always equate to success. One can put forth maximum effort and still end up flat on his rear end wondering what the hell just happened.

[BlueintheFace]

Again, it's apples and oranges. No one is saying Yaffe can't criticize Duke. He just has no grounds upon which to judge effort, which is what he does, nonetheless. K can judge the crowd's effort because, you know, he can hear how loud they are. Additionally, K would never say "I don't work 17 hours a day to see the corners empty in Cameron." He might say, "We should fill the corners in Cameron." One is entitlement. The other isn't. The comment about sleeping out in the cold is pure entitlement.

I suppose you and I simply disagree on the line about sleeping outside. The Duke players feel confident in their abilities- they feel that if they do their part and try their hardest, the team will live up to Duke standards set over the last 25 years. Their confidence spills over into the 6th Man and the crazies get that same confidence. I'm sure a lot of players are thinking back over the season right now and thinking... "why weren't we more successful? Did we have all the right pieces? We worked so hard and put in so many hours and what do we have to show for it?" I think these are the same questions being asked by Yaffe.

Regarding Effort-- where in the whole article does Yaffe criticize effort? I suppose I am missing something. Please point me to where he questions the players' efforts?

[Bluedawg]

Bingo. I have two reactions:

As a journalist, I found the column to be mediocre writing laced with absolutely no reporting. Yaffe, if you're reading this (and I know you are), you need an editor. Badly.

As a human, I find his saying "But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all" to be reprehensible. The team owes him NOTHING. That sense of entitlement is disgusting, it perpetuates and ugly stereotype of Duke students as spoiled brats and serves no purpose.

I took it for what it was, an opinion piece not a news article.

Your comment concerning the lack of reporting was made clear when, after complaining about Wojo being the "big man coach" and how that can't work, he said

Having never been to practice, it's difficult to say whether that's true.

[RelativeWays]

Betrayal? Disappointment sure, but I'm not sure how any Duke fan could feel "betrayed" unless they threw the post season for UNC.

[Udaman]

I must admit (and this is coming from a 1990 grad) that the fact that the tenters have slept out about 150 nights over the past three years to watch the Duke - Carolina game, and we've gone 0-3 in those games - with Carolina leading for about 80% of the total minutes...is kind of funny.

Guess I would be miffed too if that happened. Then again, the 150 nights of tenting is completely self-inflicted. Back in my four years, we camped out a total of 5 nights to go 1-3.

[Bluedawg]

You misread.

You are correct, but reading it the right way makes it even more silly.

[bdh21]

But I sure would like to see a little more urgency in the search for solutions. If Coach K really wants his teams to be great, he has to understand that this one wasn't.

I know we all have our "connections" and we heard so-and-so from or about x player. Me personally, I roomed for 2 years and was great friends with a 4-year manager while at Duke. While I've never gotten any privileged information or inside-info, I have heard a ton what Coach K is like behind the scenes as well as his attitude towards basketball and life.

That having been said, Andrew Yaffe is not only condescending, he is grossly ignorant about his subject. Coach K is the most competitive SOB (and i mean that affectionately) you could ever meet.

If you think Laettner or Battier or Redick hated losing, they've got nothing on the master.

If you think Coach K doesn't privately have an awful, wrenching feeling about Duke's tourney performance than you'd be dead wrong.

If any of you think you are a tenth as disappointed about Duke losing any game (much less an NCAA 2nd rounder) as Coach K, think again. Coach K's great gift is to turn that disappointment into a fire to motivate and improve. We all know about "next play," but just as telling is "here's to never forgetting that game."

If you think K wouldn't do anything and everything, short of dishonor, to prepare his team to win games, you're mistaken. If that's not urgency, I don't know what is.

If it is-if Krzyzewski truly thinks this season was "great"-then something about Duke Basketball needs to change.

Are you kidding me, Yaffe? You're talking about a man who says to the fans "at Duke we only storm the court for national championships." We're talking about the guy who said Duke football would never be able to recruit if they told recruits their goal was just to "be competitive" instead of to win championships.

You can guarantee the day Coach K does not have the utmost urgency to win championships will be the day he retires. Most likely, though, he will retire long before that day ever comes.

I know I'm speculating on Coach K's attitude as well. I'm just not as ignorant as Mr. Yaffe.

[Kdogg]

Guess I would be miffed too if that happened. Then again, the 150 nights of tenting is completely self-inflicted. Back in my four years, we camped out a total of 5 nights to go 1-3.

I totally agree. The length of tenting is ridiculous and self-inflicted. This kids need to learn either game theory or pop bio.

[Crazie'11]

As a freshman this year, I had the opportunity to live in Tent Scheyer (#30) for 2+ months, and loved every bit of it. Sure it was cold, miserably so at times, but the sheer magnitude of what we were there for was unbelievable. There are no fans more devoted to their team than the Crazies. That being said, 10 of my 11 tentmates were seniors this year, and although they were heartbroken after the loss, none of them had the gall to suggest that our players did not give enough, and that they deserved better. To do so is utterly appalling.

You can always tell who the fairweather fans are, because they'll stop supporting our team the second we lose. This article smacks of sheer arrogance - we tent for the joy of seeing one of the greatest basketball games on earth and cheering on our team, not because we think it is our birthright as Duke fans to see a win.

[dukepsy1963]

it looks like "free speech" is alive and well. But, talk about being "destructive"...yeow....not much constructive criticism as far as I could see. Opinion for the most part.......

Who would have thunk that a bloody "game" could generate such venom from otherwise intelligent human beings. And I don't mean just Duke fans here by any means. I sometimes seriously think about tearing loose that part of me that enjoys basketball so much. There are plenty of other things that are so much more important.


Go Duke!