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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2008

    Reaction to Duke Chronicle Article?

    http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/m...-3281839.shtml

    Misses a few positive points, but overall pretty accurate, honest assessment

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Yadkinville NC
    I find it pretty humorous, in light of recent discussions on this board, that the Chronicle makes mention of DBR and the delicate policy of pointing out problems with the team. Good article overall I thought, pretty much right on point with how I felt about the season.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    York, PA

    Sounds a bit spoiled to me

    from the article -
    "But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all."

    I did not attend Duke. I'm so sorry that the Cameron Crazies were inconvenienced in any way this year. I for one, would have given my right leg to be a tenter and to experience the camaraderie and sense of being part of "the team" that tenting would provide. And frankly, seeing players give their all is exactly why I root for Duke and have rooted for them for over two decades.

    From what I can tell, these athletes are great people and they weren't put on this earth for the sole purpose of entertaining some college students. I love to watch the progression of those who stay four years and enjoy seeing their success in their chosen professions. The game, while not secondary, certainly has far less importance in the big picture of life than the fact that many go on to be fantastic citizens.

    I believe it's okay to question game strategies, recruiting, bench usage, etc., but making a self-centered comment like the one above really steams me. When you put it in an equal amount of sweat equity as those boys in blue invest, then you have a right to complain. Until then, cut them some slack and keep those types of opinions to yourself.

    Sorry for the rant.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Parts Unknown
    Quote Originally Posted by lmb View Post
    from the article -
    "But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all."

    I did not attend Duke. I'm so sorry that the Cameron Crazies were inconvenienced in any way this year. I for one, would have given my right leg to be a tenter and to experience the camaraderie and sense of being part of "the team" that tenting would provide. And frankly, seeing players give their all is exactly why I root for Duke and have rooted for them for over two decades.

    From what I can tell, these athletes are great people and they weren't put on this earth for the sole purpose of entertaining some college students. I love to watch the progression of those who stay four years and enjoy seeing their success in their chosen professions. The game, while not secondary, certainly has far less importance in the big picture of life than the fact that many go on to be fantastic citizens.

    I believe it's okay to question game strategies, recruiting, bench usage, etc., but making a self-centered comment like the one above really steams me. When you put it in an equal amount of sweat equity as those boys in blue invest, then you have a right to complain. Until then, cut them some slack and keep those types of opinions to yourself.

    Sorry for the rant.
    I also disagreed with that line. There is no point in this season where i don't think they gave their all.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    My biggest problem with the piece by Mr. Yaffe is that he has taken a single word after the end of an emotional game and emotional season, and has extrapolated an entire point of view about how Coach K assessed the season, the team, and so forth.

    It's a useful tool when writing a column, to be sure. But is it fair? I think not.

    While the rest of us--myself included--were calling this a "great" team when we were 22-1, Coach K was the one insisting that this was a "good, not great" team.

    And yet the moment he attempts to offer some praise to his team, knowing full well the fallout in the media and among supporters following the loss to WVU, Coach K offered a single word of praise for his team and what they had in fact accomplished, shortcomings and all.

    Extrapolating that word, from that context, into a beratement of Coach K seems unfair at best, and mean-spirited at worst.

    Are there honest questions to be asked? Absolutely.

    Did Mr. Yaffe go about that in the most thoughtful of ways? I do not think so.

    Mr. Yaffe assumes that Coach K thinks all is well in Durham; he assumes that Coach K is satisfied--nay, pleased--with the season's outcome.

    And while it would be equally inappropriate for me to assume that which is on Coach K's mind, I think it is absurd to have taken a single word from a postgame presser, and use that to pummel the players, the staff and anyone willing to offer an optimistic slant on the direction of the program.

    Lastly, Yaffe's conclusion is, well, "not so great."

    But I sure would like to see a little more urgency in the search for solutions. If Coach K really wants his teams to be great, he has to understand that this one wasn't.
    These words, and the sentiments thereof, are condescending to the nth-degree.

    So it goes.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedawg View Post
    I also disagreed with that line. There is no point in this season where i don't think they gave their all.
    You misread.

    But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all.
    Nobody thinks the players don't try. All that's being said is that, since we are such a great program, we should hold ourselves to high standards -- standards higher than those that consider a 28-6 second-round exit "great".

    Moreover, the fact that our standards seem to have lessened indicates that our program has run into some problems. Yaffe tries to identify those problems as being rebounding/interior play and recruiting (which are, he says, related issues).

    I disagree with the promotion of one-and-done players but agree with the idea of the article overall. And like others have said, it's an opinion column. Yaffe states his opinion and backs it up with evidence. Whether you agree with the opinion or think that the evidence is relevant/irrelevant or strong/weak is up to you.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Parts Unknown
    Quote Originally Posted by appzter View Post
    You misread.


    You are correct, but reading it the right way makes it even more silly.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by lmb View Post
    from the article -
    "But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all."

    I did not attend Duke. I'm so sorry that the Cameron Crazies were inconvenienced in any way this year. I for one, would have given my right leg to be a tenter and to experience the camaraderie and sense of being part of "the team" that tenting would provide. And frankly, seeing players give their all is exactly why I root for Duke and have rooted for them for over two decades.

    From what I can tell, these athletes are great people and they weren't put on this earth for the sole purpose of entertaining some college students. I love to watch the progression of those who stay four years and enjoy seeing their success in their chosen professions. The game, while not secondary, certainly has far less importance in the big picture of life than the fact that many go on to be fantastic citizens.

    I believe it's okay to question game strategies, recruiting, bench usage, etc., but making a self-centered comment like the one above really steams me. When you put it in an equal amount of sweat equity as those boys in blue invest, then you have a right to complain. Until then, cut them some slack and keep those types of opinions to yourself.

    Sorry for the rant.
    Bingo. I have two reactions:

    As a journalist, I found the column to be mediocre writing laced with absolutely no reporting. Yaffe, if you're reading this (and I know you are), you need an editor. Badly.

    As a human, I find his saying "But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all" to be reprehensible. The team owes him NOTHING. That sense of entitlement is disgusting, it perpetuates an ugly stereotype of Duke students as spoiled brats and serves no purpose.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Acworth, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
    Bingo. I have two reactions:

    As a journalist, I found the column to be mediocre writing laced with absolutely no reporting. Yaffe, if you're reading this (and I know you are), you need an editor. Badly.

    As a human, I find his saying "But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all" to be reprehensible. The team owes him NOTHING. That sense of entitlement is disgusting, it perpetuates and ugly stereotype of Duke students as spoiled brats and serves no purpose.
    Hey - our program is not at its best performance-wise right now. And I may post more on that later.

    BUT ANYONE WHO DOESN'T THINK OUR PLAYERS BUSTED THEIR ***ES EVERY NIGHT IS DUMB. And, honestly, that kind of assertion p*sses me off.

    They gave it their all. Though we faded a bit at the end (ACC/NCAA tourney), a 28 win season is PHENOMENAL OVERACHIEVEMENT BY A VERY YOUNG TEAM! How many programs, including the elite majors, have had a consistent record of winning in the 2000s as good as Duke's??? How many major, major programs would chew off their collective arms for a 28 win season???

    Yes, we have some issues right now. But, the effort of our players and coaches is certainly not one of them.

  10. #10
    while I find most of the points he was making valid, I also find it disgusting to read that line about "sleeping in cold for 2 months." And he dared to represent the whole Cameron Crazies in such way! Fans have the rights to be upset about the outcome and they have the rights to voice reasonable opinions. But to imply that because the team didn't succeed in the end makes them unworthy to support ...That paints a wrong image about the whole fan base.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Bratty - certainly. But do you honestly think K Ville would exist if just getting to the Tourney was a great season? And I don't say this to dwell on the word "great," just to point out that there is a reason there is a tent village at duke and not at E. Ky

    Maybe everyone's expectations should be different, but thats not really the point

    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
    Bingo. I have two reactions:

    As a journalist, I found the column to be mediocre writing laced with absolutely no reporting. Yaffe, if you're reading this (and I know you are), you need an editor. Badly.

    As a human, I find his saying "But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all" to be reprehensible. The team owes him NOTHING. That sense of entitlement is disgusting, it perpetuates and ugly stereotype of Duke students as spoiled brats and serves no purpose.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Waterloo, Ontario (unfortunately, no longer in London England).
    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
    Bingo. I have two reactions:

    As a journalist, I found the column to be mediocre writing laced with absolutely no reporting. Yaffe, if you're reading this (and I know you are), you need an editor. Badly.
    I'm not too familiar with the Chronicle (at least not this one) but isn't this an opinion piece?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by colchar View Post
    I'm not too familiar with the Chronicle (at least not this one) but isn't this an opinion piece?
    Opinions require substantiation.

    His, in this piece, is a single word from Coach K's postgame presser.

  14. #14
    let's just wait till the public media gets hold of this. "More trouble for Duke: fanbase in uproar".

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    The Birmingham of the North
    Quote Originally Posted by colchar View Post
    I'm not too familiar with the Chronicle (at least not this one) but isn't this an opinion piece?
    If I might be so bold, I think Jumbo's point was not that a column need necessarily contain hard reporting, but that if it's not going to be written very well it needs something, i.e. some reporting, to help prop it up.

    There are a lot of mediocre writers (and a few poor ones) who are still decent columnists because they include enough interesting news in their columns to help the readers forget they're not reading James Murray.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Texas/NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
    Bingo. I have two reactions:

    As a journalist, I found the column to be mediocre writing laced with absolutely no reporting. Yaffe, if you're reading this (and I know you are), you need an editor. Badly.

    As a human, I find his saying "But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all" to be reprehensible. The team owes him NOTHING. That sense of entitlement is disgusting, it perpetuates and ugly stereotype of Duke students as spoiled brats and serves no purpose.
    Jumbo,
    I respectfully disagree with you here on several points. First of all, a column does not necessarily need to "report." Yaffe made no attempt to report because he is a sports columnist providing commentary. Agree or disagree with his view, this is the purpose of the piece.

    Second, Coach K brings in the crazies every year and tells them that they are the 6th man- that they are a part of the team. Coach K feels that the student body SHOULD fill Cameron and fulfill their role on the team. He expects a certain level of performance out of them and is quick to state his disappointment when they fall short (publicly and privately). K firmly believes in this student body-team relationship. That being said, why shouldn't student express disappointment when the team's performance isn't up to the standards set by Duke. If Coach K can criticize the 6th man for not living up to the program's historical standards, why can't the 6th man criticize the team and coach's performance for the exact same reason?

    The Crazies give it their all and are criticized when they fall short... the team gave it their all and were criticized when they fell short. Yaffe's article looks at a lot of the same things that I'm sure the coaching staff will look at too. We are all in a state of introspection- those in the starting rotation and those who have come to be labeled by our Coach as the 6th man. Ultimately, we all want to win and such criticism hardly seemed destructive or inaccurate.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueintheFace View Post
    Jumbo,
    I respectfully disagree with you here on several points. First of all, a column does not necessarily need to "report." Yaffe made no attempt to report because he is a sports columnist providing commentary. Agree or disagree with his view, this is the purpose of the piece.

    Second, Coach K brings in the crazies every year and tells them that they are the 6th man- that they are a part of the team. Coach K feels that the student body SHOULD fill Cameron and fulfill their role on the team. He expects a certain level of performance out of them and is quick to state his disappointment when they fall short (publicly and privately). K firmly believes in this student body-team relationship. That being said, why shouldn't student express disappointment when the team's performance isn't up to the standards set by Duke. If Coach K can criticize the 6th man for not living up to the program's historical standards, why can't the 6th man criticize the team and coach's performance for the exact same reason?

    The Crazies give it their all and are criticized when they fall short... the team gave it their all and were criticized when they fell short. Yaffe's article looks at a lot of the same things that I'm sure the coaching staff will look at too. We are all in a state of introspection- those in the starting rotation and those who have come to be labeled by our Coach as the 6th man. Ultimately, we all want to win and such criticism hardly seemed destructive or inaccurate.

    Big difference between Cameron Crazies and the players themselves: We're not competing against anyone. If we don't do our best, it's entirely on us. Sometimes our guys just face better teams.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Texas/NC
    Quote Originally Posted by VaDukie View Post
    Big difference between Cameron Crazies and the players themselves: We're not competing against anyone. If we don't do our best, it's entirely on us. Sometimes our guys just face better teams.

    Thats true, but my point is that by really "making us a part of the team" every year, K has allowed us to invest ourselves enough in the program to feel these emotions of disappointment and betrayal. A valid point though, to be sure.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueintheFace View Post
    Jumbo,
    I respectfully disagree with you here on several points. First of all, a column does not necessarily need to "report." Yaffe made no attempt to report because he is a sports columnist providing commentary. Agree or disagree with his view, this is the purpose of the piece.
    Au contraire. Since journalism is my field, I think I actually know something about this subject. Sure a column doesn't need reporting. A good one does. There is absolutely no context for K's quote nor factual support for many of his arguments. It's pure opinion, and unsubstantiated at that.


    Quote Originally Posted by BlueintheFace View Post
    Second, Coach K brings in the crazies every year and tells them that they are the 6th man- that they are a part of the team. Coach K feels that the student body SHOULD fill Cameron and fulfill their role on the team. He expects a certain level of performance out of them and is quick to state his disappointment when they fall short (publicly and privately). K firmly believes in this student body-team relationship. That being said, why shouldn't student express disappointment when the team's performance isn't up to the standards set by Duke. If Coach K can criticize the 6th man for not living up to the program's historical standards, why can't the 6th man criticize the team and coach's performance for the exact same reason?
    Apples and oranges. There is a difference between criticizing results and criticizing effort. And there is a huge difference between entitlement (i.e. -- we slept out in the cold for X) and exhorting (the crowd can be better, which will help us, because they are part of the team).

  20. #20
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    Jan 2008
    Location
    Texas/NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
    Apples and oranges. There is a difference between criticizing results and criticizing effort. And there is a huge difference between entitlement (i.e. -- we slept out in the cold for X) and exhorting (the crowd can be better, which will help us, because they are part of the team).
    Coach K criticizes the Crazies' effort (attendance) AND performance (loudness) from time to time. Yaffe criticizes the teams' performance (wins and losses) in this article. Both are criticizing performance. Both feel that they deserve better from time to time and both tend to be right.

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