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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2008

    Reaction to Duke Chronicle Article?

    http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/m...-3281839.shtml

    Misses a few positive points, but overall pretty accurate, honest assessment

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Yadkinville NC
    I find it pretty humorous, in light of recent discussions on this board, that the Chronicle makes mention of DBR and the delicate policy of pointing out problems with the team. Good article overall I thought, pretty much right on point with how I felt about the season.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    I think defining a great season as hanging a banner is a shallow measure of success. And saying that the team 'owes' the students championships for their time in K-Ville is very presumptuous. I think he places far too much value on K calling this a 'great' year. I think there isn't any year K doesn't consider great as long as our guys play hard.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    If K is saying publicly that this was a "great" season in the sense that the team played hard, improved, behaved, went to class, won 28 games, and represented Duke well but privately acknowledges to the team and the staff that the play down the stretch was well below his standards, than the article goes too far.

    If, however, K believes this season was great in all respects, than I like that the author was willing to question that belief, albeit over the top in some respects (in the sense that to have a great season, you have to go to the Final Four or hang a banner).

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Yadkinville NC
    Yeah, he did go a bit over the top in some of the comments he made, I agree. But the overlying theme I agreed with. I wasn't happy with this season due to the team showing me what they were capable of during midseason (when we peaked IMO) and then didn't keep that up through the tourney. I honestly picked Duke to lose to WVU in my brackets this year, but was hoping for at least a Sweet 16 appearance. I would have been pretty happy with that.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    York, PA

    Sounds a bit spoiled to me

    from the article -
    "But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all."

    I did not attend Duke. I'm so sorry that the Cameron Crazies were inconvenienced in any way this year. I for one, would have given my right leg to be a tenter and to experience the camaraderie and sense of being part of "the team" that tenting would provide. And frankly, seeing players give their all is exactly why I root for Duke and have rooted for them for over two decades.

    From what I can tell, these athletes are great people and they weren't put on this earth for the sole purpose of entertaining some college students. I love to watch the progression of those who stay four years and enjoy seeing their success in their chosen professions. The game, while not secondary, certainly has far less importance in the big picture of life than the fact that many go on to be fantastic citizens.

    I believe it's okay to question game strategies, recruiting, bench usage, etc., but making a self-centered comment like the one above really steams me. When you put it in an equal amount of sweat equity as those boys in blue invest, then you have a right to complain. Until then, cut them some slack and keep those types of opinions to yourself.

    Sorry for the rant.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Parts Unknown
    Quote Originally Posted by coastal1 View Post
    http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/m...-3281839.shtml

    Misses a few positive points, but overall pretty accurate, honest assessment
    WOW...talk about a "take no prisoners” article

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Parts Unknown
    Quote Originally Posted by lmb View Post
    from the article -
    "But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all."

    I did not attend Duke. I'm so sorry that the Cameron Crazies were inconvenienced in any way this year. I for one, would have given my right leg to be a tenter and to experience the camaraderie and sense of being part of "the team" that tenting would provide. And frankly, seeing players give their all is exactly why I root for Duke and have rooted for them for over two decades.

    From what I can tell, these athletes are great people and they weren't put on this earth for the sole purpose of entertaining some college students. I love to watch the progression of those who stay four years and enjoy seeing their success in their chosen professions. The game, while not secondary, certainly has far less importance in the big picture of life than the fact that many go on to be fantastic citizens.

    I believe it's okay to question game strategies, recruiting, bench usage, etc., but making a self-centered comment like the one above really steams me. When you put it in an equal amount of sweat equity as those boys in blue invest, then you have a right to complain. Until then, cut them some slack and keep those types of opinions to yourself.

    Sorry for the rant.
    I also disagreed with that line. There is no point in this season where i don't think they gave their all.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDevilJay View Post
    I find it pretty humorous, in light of recent discussions on this board, that the Chronicle makes mention of DBR and the delicate policy of pointing out problems with the team. Good article overall I thought, pretty much right on point with how I felt about the season.
    Agreed, that DBR reference was humorous.

    While I've never been a huge fan of the Chronicle's sportswriters and I think Yaffe could've done without the "I didn't get my Final Four" rant, there is some truth to what he says.

    When looking at Duke after the past 2 seasons (really the past 4-5 years), it's clear that some of the program's shortcomings are exaggerated. Any time the lovely Dana O'Neill from ESPN says "And they haven't been to a Final Four since (gasp) 2004" (not an exact quote but close), you know you truly are the standard of the sport.

    But at the same time, it's also impossible to ignore some of the negative trends developing in the program, and I think there are some people (on and off these boards) that are trying so hard to convince themselves that everything's fine. It's not. To be sure, the sky isn't falling but it isn't totally sunny, either. Say what you want about the "madness" of the tournament but our teams have fallen short of expectations for the past three years and it's not really up for debate. Just because I knew we could very conceivably lose to VCU or the winner of WVU/Arizona doesn't excuse the fact that they're games we were supposed to win. The inability to attract and keep quality big men is another issue that is impossible to ignore; you just can't.

    Do I think Duke has "lost its luster"? The thought of that is simply laughable when you're 3 or 4 years removed from a Final Four and 2 years removed from something like 7 of the past 9 ACC tourney titles and 9 or 10 Sweet 16s in a row.

    Do I think there are some issues confronting the program? Not gigantic ones but I'd be naive to say none.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by lmb View Post
    from the article -
    "But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all."

    I did not attend Duke. I'm so sorry that the Cameron Crazies were inconvenienced in any way this year. I for one, would have given my right leg to be a tenter and to experience the camaraderie and sense of being part of "the team" that tenting would provide. And frankly, seeing players give their all is exactly why I root for Duke and have rooted for them for over two decades.

    From what I can tell, these athletes are great people and they weren't put on this earth for the sole purpose of entertaining some college students. I love to watch the progression of those who stay four years and enjoy seeing their success in their chosen professions. The game, while not secondary, certainly has far less importance in the big picture of life than the fact that many go on to be fantastic citizens.

    I believe it's okay to question game strategies, recruiting, bench usage, etc., but making a self-centered comment like the one above really steams me. When you put it in an equal amount of sweat equity as those boys in blue invest, then you have a right to complain. Until then, cut them some slack and keep those types of opinions to yourself.

    Sorry for the rant.
    Bingo. I have two reactions:

    As a journalist, I found the column to be mediocre writing laced with absolutely no reporting. Yaffe, if you're reading this (and I know you are), you need an editor. Badly.

    As a human, I find his saying "But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all" to be reprehensible. The team owes him NOTHING. That sense of entitlement is disgusting, it perpetuates an ugly stereotype of Duke students as spoiled brats and serves no purpose.

  11. #11

    He has a point, but...

    Many of the things he says are fine, but I don't like the tone of the article much. The Chronicle should remember that they are talking about fellow students, not professional players. I remember in the late 1980s that Coach K really took a Chronicle reporter to task for the same problem, with a florid vocabulary no less, but the intrepid reporter was able to record the whole thing, which made for an even more interesting second article.

    We all know that Coach K is fully aware that 28-6 is not great when you start 22-1, but these are his players, all of them young men, and he needs to build them up for next year while also sending DeMarcus out on a positive note. In that sense, he needs to remind them of all that they accomplished, which is easy to overlook because of the problems at the end of the year.

    But of course the author is young too, and is surely disappointed in the outcome just as the players are.

    One thing that I do not like much is the insistence on getting the one and done players. I realize that is the new reality, but I am not sure that is what Duke stands for. Coach K was obviously very upset when Luol Deng left after one year, and I don't know if we really want to follow the Syracuse/Carmelo Anthony example, even though it was successful in the short run.

    Finally, I disagree with the idea that Duke is not improving its players. Different players develop at different rates. Many of us remember how Elton Brand was already the POY by his sophomore year, but also how much Shane Battier improved between that same sophomore year and his POY senior season.

    I really expect to see tremendous improvement for next year, and that won't be affected by the staff's participation in the Olympics. I think Coach K sees that as his duty, which is very commendable on his part.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Acworth, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
    Bingo. I have two reactions:

    As a journalist, I found the column to be mediocre writing laced with absolutely no reporting. Yaffe, if you're reading this (and I know you are), you need an editor. Badly.

    As a human, I find his saying "But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all" to be reprehensible. The team owes him NOTHING. That sense of entitlement is disgusting, it perpetuates and ugly stereotype of Duke students as spoiled brats and serves no purpose.
    Hey - our program is not at its best performance-wise right now. And I may post more on that later.

    BUT ANYONE WHO DOESN'T THINK OUR PLAYERS BUSTED THEIR ***ES EVERY NIGHT IS DUMB. And, honestly, that kind of assertion p*sses me off.

    They gave it their all. Though we faded a bit at the end (ACC/NCAA tourney), a 28 win season is PHENOMENAL OVERACHIEVEMENT BY A VERY YOUNG TEAM! How many programs, including the elite majors, have had a consistent record of winning in the 2000s as good as Duke's??? How many major, major programs would chew off their collective arms for a 28 win season???

    Yes, we have some issues right now. But, the effort of our players and coaches is certainly not one of them.

  13. #13
    while I find most of the points he was making valid, I also find it disgusting to read that line about "sleeping in cold for 2 months." And he dared to represent the whole Cameron Crazies in such way! Fans have the rights to be upset about the outcome and they have the rights to voice reasonable opinions. But to imply that because the team didn't succeed in the end makes them unworthy to support ....That paints a wrong image about the whole fan base.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Bratty - certainly. But do you honestly think K Ville would exist if just getting to the Tourney was a great season? And I don't say this to dwell on the word "great," just to point out that there is a reason there is a tent village at duke and not at E. Ky

    Maybe everyone's expectations should be different, but thats not really the point

    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
    Bingo. I have two reactions:

    As a journalist, I found the column to be mediocre writing laced with absolutely no reporting. Yaffe, if you're reading this (and I know you are), you need an editor. Badly.

    As a human, I find his saying "But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all" to be reprehensible. The team owes him NOTHING. That sense of entitlement is disgusting, it perpetuates and ugly stereotype of Duke students as spoiled brats and serves no purpose.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    My biggest problem with the piece by Mr. Yaffe is that he has taken a single word after the end of an emotional game and emotional season, and has extrapolated an entire point of view about how Coach K assessed the season, the team, and so forth.

    It's a useful tool when writing a column, to be sure. But is it fair? I think not.

    While the rest of us--myself included--were calling this a "great" team when we were 22-1, Coach K was the one insisting that this was a "good, not great" team.

    And yet the moment he attempts to offer some praise to his team, knowing full well the fallout in the media and among supporters following the loss to WVU, Coach K offered a single word of praise for his team and what they had in fact accomplished, shortcomings and all.

    Extrapolating that word, from that context, into a beratement of Coach K seems unfair at best, and mean-spirited at worst.

    Are there honest questions to be asked? Absolutely.

    Did Mr. Yaffe go about that in the most thoughtful of ways? I do not think so.

    Mr. Yaffe assumes that Coach K thinks all is well in Durham; he assumes that Coach K is satisfied--nay, pleased--with the season's outcome.

    And while it would be equally inappropriate for me to assume that which is on Coach K's mind, I think it is absurd to have taken a single word from a postgame presser, and use that to pummel the players, the staff and anyone willing to offer an optimistic slant on the direction of the program.

    Lastly, Yaffe's conclusion is, well, "not so great."

    But I sure would like to see a little more urgency in the search for solutions. If Coach K really wants his teams to be great, he has to understand that this one wasn't.
    These words, and the sentiments thereof, are condescending to the nth-degree.

    So it goes.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Waterloo, Ontario (unfortunately, no longer in London England).
    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
    Bingo. I have two reactions:

    As a journalist, I found the column to be mediocre writing laced with absolutely no reporting. Yaffe, if you're reading this (and I know you are), you need an editor. Badly.
    I'm not too familiar with the Chronicle (at least not this one) but isn't this an opinion piece?

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by colchar View Post
    I'm not too familiar with the Chronicle (at least not this one) but isn't this an opinion piece?
    Opinions require substantiation.

    His, in this piece, is a single word from Coach K's postgame presser.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Texas/NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
    Bingo. I have two reactions:

    As a journalist, I found the column to be mediocre writing laced with absolutely no reporting. Yaffe, if you're reading this (and I know you are), you need an editor. Badly.

    As a human, I find his saying "But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all" to be reprehensible. The team owes him NOTHING. That sense of entitlement is disgusting, it perpetuates and ugly stereotype of Duke students as spoiled brats and serves no purpose.
    Jumbo,
    I respectfully disagree with you here on several points. First of all, a column does not necessarily need to "report." Yaffe made no attempt to report because he is a sports columnist providing commentary. Agree or disagree with his view, this is the purpose of the piece.

    Second, Coach K brings in the crazies every year and tells them that they are the 6th man- that they are a part of the team. Coach K feels that the student body SHOULD fill Cameron and fulfill their role on the team. He expects a certain level of performance out of them and is quick to state his disappointment when they fall short (publicly and privately). K firmly believes in this student body-team relationship. That being said, why shouldn't student express disappointment when the team's performance isn't up to the standards set by Duke. If Coach K can criticize the 6th man for not living up to the program's historical standards, why can't the 6th man criticize the team and coach's performance for the exact same reason?

    The Crazies give it their all and are criticized when they fall short... the team gave it their all and were criticized when they fell short. Yaffe's article looks at a lot of the same things that I'm sure the coaching staff will look at too. We are all in a state of introspection- those in the starting rotation and those who have come to be labeled by our Coach as the 6th man. Ultimately, we all want to win and such criticism hardly seemed destructive or inaccurate.

  19. #19
    let's just wait till the public media gets hold of this. "More trouble for Duke: fanbase in uproar".

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by lmb View Post
    from the article -
    "But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all."

    I did not attend Duke. I'm so sorry that the Cameron Crazies were inconvenienced in any way this year. I for one, would have given my right leg to be a tenter and to experience the camaraderie and sense of being part of "the team" that tenting would provide. And frankly, seeing players give their all is exactly why I root for Duke and have rooted for them for over two decades.

    From what I can tell, these athletes are great people and they weren't put on this earth for the sole purpose of entertaining some college students. I love to watch the progression of those who stay four years and enjoy seeing their success in their chosen professions. The game, while not secondary, certainly has far less importance in the big picture of life than the fact that many go on to be fantastic citizens.

    I believe it's okay to question game strategies, recruiting, bench usage, etc., but making a self-centered comment like the one above really steams me. When you put it in an equal amount of sweat equity as those boys in blue invest, then you have a right to complain. Until then, cut them some slack and keep those types of opinions to yourself.

    Sorry for the rant.
    Not a rant at all. Very well said. Consider posting it under the Chronicle article.

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