Community: What Would You Do?

[BD80]

Please read this post. In particular, scroll down to the parts about Zoubek, Paulus, McClure and Wojo. Feel free to read the subsequent back and forth. People have raised some issues about moderation.
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1) "To solve, they need to give up on Paulus. He is going to be a senior and he is never going to take the team anywhere."

2) "Give up on Zoubek. HE WILL NEVER BE GOOD. PERIOD."

3) "Well, why is Wojo (a 5-9, white, suburban, PG) our big man coach? If you were Patterson, Monroe or any other good big man, would you come play for Wojo? Be honest with yourself. Couldn't they get anyone else to take the job?"
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Also, as a bonus question, what does such a post add to the community here? Let's hear what you have to say.

As one who has suffered a "timeout" (for a greatly misunderstood post - I swear!) and a penalty and a warning, I believe that a ban was/is appropriate.

First rule: we are guests here and our hosts expect/require a certain standard of conduct. If anyone doesn't like it, find another forum to air one's opinions. I think the post was clearly critical of multiple players and destructively so. While I agree with J&B that the board is better without such comments, my opinion doesn't matter. Jumbo asked our opinion as to whether the post violated the published guidelines and I say clearly yes.

The better question in my mind, the one overlooked by so many posters, is WHY? As Jumbo phrased it, what did the post add to the community? I don't see any benefit to the post. I feel lessened by having read it.

Last, and I think most important, is the tone of the post. Why come to a Duke fan bulletin board and say the players aren't any good? Any fan of the team, will have at least one favored player. How would it feel to have your favorite player criticized in that manner? The post seems to be intentionally tweaking fans of some of our players. Why do that to someone else? I truly do not understand the mentality of posting such critical comments.

All that said, I don't think the ban should be a long one unless there is a long history of the poster ignoring the guidelines. This is a Duke community, and we should welcome those who love Duke basketball rather than exclude them. Besides, in my old age, I have grown to oppose capital punishment.

[trickshot]

I often read the post but for what it's worth, this is like my third post. That being said, here's my 2 cents.

If moderators need to ask if a person needs to be banned, then they don't feel comfortable doing so themselves.

If that's the case, then he shouldn't be banned.

[EarlJam]

I often read the post but for what it's worth, this is like my third post. That being said, here's my 2 cents.

If moderators need to ask if a person needs to be banned, then they don't feel comfortable doing so themselves.

If that's the case, then he shouldn't be banned.

Snap.

That's a pretty dog gone good observation (seriously).

-EarlJam

[Karl Beem]

Snap.

That's a pretty dog gone good observation (seriously).

-EarlJam

I believe he was already punished. They're asking if we concur.

[loran16]

What a lot of people have missed is that the rest of the post doesn't matter. Boston Dukie could've written a Shakespearean sonnet that broke down the intricacies of every aspect of Duke basketball better than K himself. As soon as he says "Give up on Zoubek. HE WILL NEVER BE GOOD. PERIOD." it becomes Destructively Negative. Period.

I must disagree.

The biggest question when modding the board should be the following:

"Can the following post in any way benefit the community, and did the poster make it with the intent to add useful discussion."

In this case, I think it's clear the answer is yes. In fact, many posters here agree that 2 of the 3 most offensive comments aren't truly that bad, and slightly rephrased wouldn't even be noticed.

So what does this tell me? It tells me that the person in question is someone who may be a source of useful discussion in the future, but has either not understood the proper context in which to make some of his statements (or whether to make them at all) or in the heat of the moment has forgotten about them.

So I hope that the poster is at most tempbanned this time around, because imo 3 points is all he should've been given for this post. He clearly makes the attempt to contribute useful discussion, but makes a couple of unfortunate statements.

[JBDuke]

I believe he was already punished. They're asking if we concur.

Actually, no. We're posting an example of something that was clearly "destructive negative" in our unanimous judgement in order to help educate the posters on this board about the guidelines for what is and is not acceptable post content. Nothing about this thread impacted the citation Boston received, nor will it change the guidelines as laid down by Julio and Boswell.

[JBDuke]

...
What a lot of people have missed is that the rest of the post doesn't matter. Boston Dukie could've written a Shakespearean sonnet that broke down the intricacies of every aspect of Duke basketball better than K himself. As soon as he says "Give up on Zoubek. HE WILL NEVER BE GOOD. PERIOD." it becomes Destructively Negative. Period.
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I must disagree.
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So I hope that the poster is at most tempbanned this time around, because imo 3 points is all he should've been given for this post. He clearly makes the attempt to contribute useful discussion, but makes a couple of unfortunate statements.

Apparently, you need to go back and read the guidelines and Jumbo's post again, because it appears to me that you first DISAGREE with Jumbo that the post is "destructive negative", but then you state that in your opinion, "3 points is all he should've been given for this post", which is EXACTLY the penalty for a citation of "destructively negative". Boston was so cited, incurred the 3-point penalty, which combined with a couple of points he had for an earlier citation to result in a two-day posting ban.

[-jk]

I must disagree.

The biggest question when modding the board should be the following:

"Can the following post in any way benefit the community, and did the poster make it with the intent to add useful discussion."

It's a nice idea for a board, but that's not Julio's and Boswell's direction to us mods; we follow their posting guidelines. Our question is always, does this post follow those guidelines? The guidelines do give us some leeway: we all know life is fraught with shades of gray (or at least those of us who don't always post on the PP board), and we have to make a call on each and every questionable post.

We get nothing in return except a board we enjoy being associated with and participating on. And the occasional flame. We mostly have thick skin, but it does wear on us sometimes. I'll be frank, this last week has been awful. (And I've missed a lot of it while traveling.)

Anyone who hasn't read the guidelines or needs a refresher, please read them before posting again. You'll find them screaming "READ ME FIRST" in the stickies.

You've heard it before and you'll hear it again: We're not the only Duke board out there, and if you can't participate within the parameters set by DBR please find a different board more to your liking.

-jk

[DukieBoy]

i think that this criticism was put in a harsh tone, but it doesn't deserve a ban. It was his opinion, albeit a very criticizing one, and he is entitled to his opinion. Although I didn't agree with all of it, some did make sense. It could also become motivation to some of the kids on the team who might read it.

[Jumbo]

Snap.

That's a pretty dog gone good observation (seriously).

-EarlJam

Actually, it really had nothing to do with the issue at hand.

[Jumbo]

i think that this criticism was put in a harsh tone, but it doesn't deserve a ban. It was his opinion, albeit a very criticizing one, and he is entitled to his opinion. Although I didn't agree with all of it, some did make sense. It could also become motivation to some of the kids on the team who might read it.

Am I talking to myself here? Did you read the posting guidelines?

[EarlJam]

Actually, it really had nothing to do with the issue at hand.

I stand corrected. But at least I stand for something.

I'm standing in it.

Seriously, okay, I stand corrected.

-EarlStand

[drdukeblue33]

as a long time reader when the rules were posted originally i remember laughing and thought someone had a great sense of humor. through the years we have all seen examples of people getting over the top. i posted yesteday in another thread my thoughts about the last few days. we are fans and they are coaches and players and this is just athletic competition between young adults. we should not lose our perspective. we all have limitations on our abilities and can only do the best we can. recognize the effort. if critical be constructive and respectful. the recent days should give everyone time to reflect and regroup and enjoy our hobby. one option is to use all of this as a teaching experience, pardon everyone and start over. put yourself in the position as a parent or the individual himself and see when replying how you would feel if your post was applied in that manner. one of the things about duke basketball that has always made me proud is the manner in which our team handles itself on the court and the way they represent our alma mater. let's be at the same level

[weezie]

I stand corrected. But at least I stand for something.

I'm standing in it.

Seriously, okay, I stand corrected.

-EarlStand

Stand up and be counted.

[BlueDevilJay]

Well, that's a good point. Some of us have either known players well enough or been around them enough to say, "what's up with your jumper? Are your legs tired?" Or, "Hey, I hope you get quicker and improve your D this summer -- it would be great to see you play more next season."

But no one would ever say "You will never be good. Period."

That's really the larger point. As J&B also like to say (and Stray Gator often adds), just assume that if you're posting about Brian Zoubek, one of the following people is reading:
1) Brian Zoubek
2) Brian Zoubek's relative
3) Brian Zoubek's high school coach
4) A recruit who could be in Zoubek's shoes

Then adjust your criticism accordingly. Again, there is nothing wrong with critical analysis. It just needs to be respectful, constructive and within the guidelines. Always err on the side of being nice -- it took me a while to learn that, too,

That is the absolute best and most informative description of what y'all are looking for here that I have read. I know it means nothing, but I gained a great deal of respect for you just from that post. Now THATS the kind of understanding I expect from the mod's on my board, and am glad I have now seen here.

[RockyMtDevil]

My only complaint with the mods and with DBR is the holier than thou attitude, and the above the fray, "we're more mature and stable and therefore we don't vent" perception and the mean spirited calling out of those of us who happen to have the courage to say some things that are obviously antithetical to the very nature of this board.

We can't vent on the team, but by god you guys can sure vent on us. What message is that sending. I've been banned once and the two warning messages I received we're written in a meaner spirit than my post, so if you're going to stand on your perch and look down on us proles, at least be consistent.