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  1. #1

    MBB Starting Lineup speculation 2008-09

    This is my first post, so go easy! I'm a freshman at Duke right now (made all the games this year) and was just wondering...

    I was thinking this afternoon about who Coach K might start next year. I would assume that our 4 non-graduating starters will remain (assuming no surprise defections to the NBA *knock on wood*). But who will get DMarc's slot? I tend to think K might keep Scheyer as a 6th man after the way he flourished in that role this year, but he could very well get the starting nod.

    If not Scheyer, then who? I tend to think Nolan might be able to get it, or maybe even Zoub. Input?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Crazie'11 View Post
    This is my first post, so go easy! I'm a freshman at Duke right now (made all the games this year) and was just wondering...

    I was thinking this afternoon about who Coach K might start next year. I would assume that our 4 non-graduating starters will remain (assuming no surprise defections to the NBA *knock on wood*). But who will get DMarc's slot? I tend to think K might keep Scheyer as a 6th man after the way he flourished in that role this year, but he could very well get the starting nod.

    If not Scheyer, then who? I tend to think Nolan might be able to get it, or maybe even Zoub. Input?
    Scheyer will start. I don't see why he won't. I don't think K asked him to be 6th man because he will be better as 6th man. And honestly I would like to see him become more assertive and aggressive. Being a starter may help.

  3. #3

    Starters

    You can lock in Paulus, Singler, and Henderson, I think that's a given.

    Unless Czyz is a lot better immediately than he's projected to be, the fourth starter spot will likely be either Zoubek or Thomas, depending on how those two develop during the off season. Here's hoping Big Z really flourishes in an injury free off season and we get some healthy competition between him and Lance for the second big slot.

    The last spot is a bit of a head scratcher. DeMarcus did so many things, it will be difficult to replace his productivity with just one guy. Scheyer is the one who comes the closest, doing a lot of little Scheyer things which add up to help the team big time, but maybe K wants to keep him as the sixth man? You've got to think K will want another ball handler out there, so the only other options would seem to be Nolan, Elliot Williams, and (the dark horse) Marty.

    I'd put my money on Scheyer moving off the bench for now, but I wouldn't be shocked to see someone else there, either.

  4. #4

    Sixth starter

    I think that Scheyer's role was an anomaly and that he will probably start next year. It should be a very powerful squad assuming that Zoubek and Thomas split time at the center postion, and that Smith, Marty, McClure, and King come off the bench.

  5. #5

    Scheyer as the playmaker

    I assume Scheyer will start, and I wouldn't mind seeing him taking over more primary ball-handling responsibilities. First, I think he is the best on the team at feeding the post. He's also better at penetrating than Paulus. Paulus is the best pure shooter on the team, and I'd prefer to see him more off the ball. He has tons of heart but, frankly, is the worst playmaker and on-the-ball defender we've started at PG since at least 1983.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke79UNLV77 View Post
    I assume Scheyer will start, and I wouldn't mind seeing him taking over more primary ball-handling responsibilities. First, I think he is the best on the team at feeding the post. He's also better at penetrating than Paulus. Paulus is the best pure shooter on the team, and I'd prefer to see him more off the ball. He has tons of heart but, frankly, is the worst playmaker and on-the-ball defender we've started at PG since at least 1983.
    I love Jon as much as anyone else, but I'm not at all persuaded he can or should be given too much PG duty. I know K used him in that role down the stretch, but remember that the stretch run wasn't exactly our best basketball. Jon is a college 2 and can play the 3 without any problem, but I don't want him as our 1. Sorry if that offends anyone, but that's not where he's going to be most effective in spite of him being a very good passer.


    Gary

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Mebane, NC

    startin 5

    If everyone stays...

    It should be:

    PG: Greg Paulus
    SG: Gerald Henderson
    SG: Elliott Williams
    SF: Kyle Singler
    C: Olex Crzy

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfpackdevil View Post
    C: Olex Crzy
    What have you seen or read about Czyz that would make you think he'd be ready to be a college five? Everything I've seen portrays him as a super athlete but a project, a stretch to start at his natural position, much less a new one.

    My guess is that we see Olek used in much the same way Taylor was this year, playing a few minutes a game due to foul trouble or fatigue with the other bigs, or to temporarily use his major tool (shooting with Taylor, athleticism with Czyz) to make the opposition deal with a different look.

  9. #9
    I could see Scheyer staying on as 6th man, and Nolan taking a starting spot to relieve Paulus and open him up, because I agree he is the best pure shooter. That way, we could have Nolan at the one, Paulus at the 2, Henderson the 3, Singler the 4, and Thomas the 5.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfpackdevil View Post
    If everyone stays...

    It should be:

    PG: Greg Paulus
    SG: Gerald Henderson
    SG: Elliott Williams
    SF: Kyle Singler
    C: Olex Crzy
    Um, why? And what does Jon Scheyer have to do to get some respect? Dear lord...

  11. #11
    Wow - I am in infrequent poster, but I did suggest this topic for Throaty Beard's topic guide back in the day. I never, however, expected that the thread would be started this early... let the body cool (as the saying goes)!

    On that note - while I will be excited about next year's lineup, I will spend the first few weeks saying to myself "If DeMarcus was playing...". It was a fun team to watch this year and while I wished they went further, I was a lot more optmistic this year than in '06-'07. I don't care who starts next year - I just want to prove all the cynics wrong and feel more optimism next year!!!

    BigRedDevil

  12. #12
    I have a feeling it will be
    Paulus, Scheyer, Henderson, Singler, Zoubek
    but it should be
    Smith, Henderson, Williams, Singler, Zoubek or Thomas
    I'd keep Scheyer as the 6th man.
    I believe that if they're going to have a shot in March they have to go with the line up that has the highest ceiling. Paulus' ceiling is lower than Nolans, Scheyer's is lower than Williams. They may lose a few more games in December but they'll win more in March.
    That being said, there's no way that line up will ever happen.

  13. #13

    next year's line-up

    If everyone stays, I imagine it will be:

    C - Thomas (maybe changing over to Zoubek if he performs well early)

    PF - Singler

    SG - Henderson

    SG - Scheyer

    PG - Paulus

    I agree with what someone posted earlier about wanting to see Paulus off the ball a bit more. I just don't know how Coach K could accomplish that without keeping Scheyer at 6th man starting Smith (which could happen, I guess). The big question is who will be in at the end of the game?

  14. #14
    I agree that the natural progression would be for Scheyer to start but the problem is if you start him and Paulus who guards the speedy guard on the other team? Nolan's minutes have to go up just for that reason. Also I agree that I wouldn't go so far as to make Scheyer a full time point guard. Having two guys that can really handle the ball is a bonus that we need but lets not push it. We have to get King on the court more. It can't be much worse if you play him instead of Lance or Zoub. We are bad on D either way and on offense at least we could have mismatches and really spread the floor.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    To everyone:
    There is zero chance that Jon Scheyer will come off the bench. He will be one of Duke's three best players and possibly its best. He certainly was Duke's best and most consistent player down the stretch this year. He scored in double figures in each of his last 7 games and averaged 14.7 ppg over his last 10. During that final 10-game stretch (when the rest of the team was struggling), he also averaged 3.1 rebounds, 3.1 assists and 1.8 spg -- all off the bench without the benefit of Duke running its offense through him. He also finished with the nation's 13th highest ORtg on kenpom.com. And while Markie was clearly our best on-the-ball defender, Jon was just as clearly our best wing defender. No one is better at ball denial. The kid is a star in the making. Period.

    Gary, I don't think Jon has to be a PG, per se. He just has to be a playmaker. Duke's offense can function without a pure point if we're running lots of side pick and rolls. Think of Jon as a collegiate verison of what Scottie Pippen did on offense for the Bulls. He wasn't the point guard, but he got great looks for his teammates and handled the ball a ton.
    That's obviously an exaggeration, but when matched against an opposing wing, Jon has the same ability to drive, dish, find open men, etc. It allows Greg to slide off to the wing and shoot. And if Gerald is healthy and passes the ball as well as he did in stretches late in the season, he can also drive and kick. That takes the pressure of Greg to initiate the offense.
    Last edited by Jumbo; 05-25-2008 at 01:11 AM.

  16. #16
    Jumbo, I agree with you on Scheyer's greatness in the making. His ability too to get defenders off their feet and draw fouls was second to none on our team. You also mention his great ability to feed the post, which I agree with.

    I'm wondering though, which post players would work the best with Scheyer's ability to make pretty passes down low, as well as drive the lane?

  17. #17

    Starters

    Both Paulus and Smith seem to be better bringing the ball upcourt but then defering to Scheyer as the playmaker. Singler and Henderson are locks to start in my mind the C position is up for grabs. Zoubek and Thomas seem to be the two most experienced guys and one of them will get that position.

    My view on starters at the beginning of the season:

    Paulus
    Scheyer
    Henderson
    Singler
    Zoubek or Thomas

    the sixth man will likely be Smith, as he gained valuable experience this year and should make a substantial improvement.

    The starters may change as the year unfolds, depending on performance in practice and in the games.

    Guys with a shot of making it as starters are probably limited to Elliot Williams, although time will tell and the injury bug may have something to say about that.

    We will have a lot of depth with King, McClure, Czyz and Pocius playing serious minutes, in addition to either Zoubek or Thomas and Smith.

    We should be able to play at a fast pace with no one needing to play more than 30 minutes a game. Singler, Scheyer and Henderson are probably the ones likely to get the most minutes.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Can I backtrack for a second? We basically used six starters this year (Scheyer played a starter's minutes) and five are returning. It's certainly extremely likely to expect those guys to start. I'm not saying not to debate it, but you're going to have to come up with a pretty good reason to decide one of those guys shouldn't start.

    It will have to be a really, really, really good reason to keep Singler, Scheyer or Henderson out of the lineup. If you can't see the talent in those three players, and the separation from others on the team, you aren't watching. We've had the Nolan vs. Greg debate all year. I'm sure it will happen again. I'm not against it. I don't see K turning away from a senior who has started his whole career, but I think Nolan deserves the chance to beat him out. The best argument can be made with Thomas vs. Zoubek, especially if Zoubek finally gets healthy (he never was this year) and progresses like Aaron Gray, which is what the coaches have been hoping from him as a junior.

    But instead of discussing starters, isn't it more interesting to try to figure out how K might use 12 scholarship players (assuming no attrition)? You can't play 12 guys. Two will probably have to sit most games. How do you manage that situation? How about the kind of competition we're likely to see in practice? What would you do with such a team? It's an exciting proposition to consider.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    WA State

    We have a lot of options

    We're deep enough to run a couple of very effective line-ups.

    I'd start:

    Scheyer
    Paulus
    Henderson
    Singler
    Zoubek

    with Nolan filling Scheyer's roll as the 6th man, Lance and Dave at the 4 & 5.

    If we need speed on the perimeter, Nolan to the point, Williams at the two (assuming his defense is solid enough).

    Role players with 5-15 mpg (depending on game situation), TK and Czyz, supplying shots and a banger with tons of athletic, though raw, ability. Williams and Marty taking it to the rim.

    The key player may be Paulus. He has a ton of heart, a great shot but is one step slow on D.

    We could actually get a bit creative with the line-ups. Consider:

    Smith
    Henderson
    Thomas
    Singler
    Zoubek

    That a pretty athletic and big lineup 1-4 with Zoubs cleaning up the boards (he actually did pretty well late this season).

    Pure speed and good handle?

    Smith
    Williams
    Scheyer
    Henderson
    Singler

  20. #20
    ISn't Czyz a natural 4? I think if he plays well, He can help Kyle or if we need the option to go big in a game, we can go:

    Paulus
    Henderson
    Singler
    Thomas
    Zoubek

    and rotate Czyz to either the 4 or 5 if need be. I doub't we'll need to play that bing and it will never be a starting line-up but its a nice option.

    I'm hope Smith, Williams and King can score off the bench, thats the main area where we will miss Jon.If we need to go fast, I would do this lineup:

    Smith/Williams
    Henderson
    Scheyer
    Singler
    Thomas

    If the pieces come together, this team can be very versatile.

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