Dbr...i Have A Problem, And Is Probably Going To Get Me Kicked Off...i Do Appologize

[obsesseddukefan]

OK...like I said I do appologize...to everyone. You can all say what you want about me when I get done with my rant, maybe it will be harsh, maybe not, but I feel I need to say some truth. Either you will agree or you wont. EVERYONE is entitled to thier opinion.

DBR...I think you took a very childish and absurd direction in closing the forums for a bit. The reason I say this is because the last time I checked we all have an opinion and have a right to say whatever we want regarding this team, wether we want to single out a player for a lack of hustle, or just plain not shooting well.

When we win a game we all single out a player for his game winning shot, or how a player performs, but when we lose all of a sudden we cant single out a player for his inability?? I think that is a double standard among us ALL, and frankly, quite silly.

I also am dissapointed in DBR. We ALL come here to vent our frustration because we ALL hate the feeling of losing. A site and forum like this helps us get over a wonderfull and yet frustrating season. This site is the cure for us and when you shut down our ability to speak and vent and try to get over the loss, I must say it is dissapointing to us all. No matter how bad the bashing gets, I am sure that NO ONE feels that way in thier heart. We are venting and trying to cope...lighten up a bit.

I'll be the first to admit...I have issues with the playing recently of a certain player..i have been open about it, but you know what, I am still proud of that player. I am glad we have him on OUR team, and I hope he doesnt go to the NBA.

Look guys and gals..we have all said some harsh things...some warranted some not...but DBR, to shut down because you cant handle some harsh
critism or we got out of control from time to time hurts us all. The truth is this, we have a right to say what we want...just like you have the right to boot us, I just hope in the future you guys lighten up a bit...please. Yoiu have no idea how you help us.

I am sorry if I offended anyone of the staff, alumni, of fans of DUKE. But I feel that this had to be said. Thanks for taking the time to read my rant...and yes... I do feel better.

[BCGroup]

Please. We are guests in DBR's home. It's that simple. They were totally within their rights, and from the bit I saw before they shut it down, they certainly needed to do something. Again, we are guests...

[Channing]

posting on DBR is not a right. The creators have facilitated a forum for Duke fans to gather and enjoy each other's company. If they want to set the rules - that is their prerogative and they have the right to expect them to be followed.

Instituting a cool down period was good for me - I was fuming yesterday and probably would have posted some things that I would later regret. If it wasn't useful for you, there are plenty of other outlets where you could vent your frustration.

Look at it like this: there were many fans, myself included, acting like juveniles yesterday - hurling personal insults against players, all of whom are at least 3 years my junior. Since many Duke fans were acting like children I saw it as DBR treating us like children and putting us in the proverbial "time out."

[Jumbo]

This is a privately owned website. As such, Julio and Boswell can do whatever they want. If they want to change the background to purple polka dots, they can do that. If they want to require all posters to show a valid driver's license before posting, they can do that. If they want everyone's signature to read "I love monkeys," they can do that.

We have no "rights" here. Our only right is to play ball by their rules. Most of us are happy for those rules and are glad to abide by them. If you don't like the rules, there are two wonderful options: 1) You can post on one of several other Duke message boards or 2) You can start your own website with your own rules.

This is not a place to vent. Yes, we were all upset yesterday. I'm sure we all got frustrated privately and maybe even had a conversation with a friend or a spouse where we let off some steam. But this is a public forum that, for better or worse, represents the Duke community and is read by players and families. If you really need this forum to "vent," I suggest reevaluating your priorities.

[pfrduke]

The reason I say this is because the last time I checked we all have an opinion and have a right to say whatever we want regarding this team, wether we want to single out a player for a lack of hustle, or just plain not shooting well.

Look guys and gals..we have all said some harsh things...some warranted some not...but DBR, to shut down because you cant handle some harsh
critism or we got out of control from time to time hurts us all. The truth is this, we have a right to say what we want...just like you have the right to boot us, I just hope in the future you guys lighten up a bit...please. Yoiu have no idea how you help us.

You do have a right to say what you want, but not wherever you want. DBR has a right to exclude whatever they want to from their private site, and since they own the place, their right trumps yours. They have extended us the gracious privilege to use this forum to discuss Duke basketball. They extend us this privilege at their discretion, and they are well within their rights to decide to shut the forum down for a bit - with or without justification. This is not the only site dedicated to discussion of Duke basketball, but many of us happen to think it is the best, largely because of the owners' policies regarding civility in posting, and the way that policy was manifested in decisions like shutting down the board last night when posters were behaving like screaming panic howler monkeys.

[DevilAlumna]

As the inimitable Sgt. Hulka once said,

Lighten up, Francis.



DBR and the mods are human too -- a bunch of individuals who do this from a love of the sport and the school and the fans. Keep that in mind that each one of them was pretty upset yesterday too, and then they had to come here and play pooper-scooper.

I'm just surprised they opened up the boards as soon as they did; I know I have better things to think about on Easter Sunday than moderating a bunch of adults with unrealistic expectations of perfection for a team of valiant young men.

[EarlJam]

This is a privately owned website. As such, Julio and Boswell can do whatever they want. If they want to change the background to purple polka dots, they can do that. If they want to require all posters to show a valid driver's license before posting, they can do that. If they want everyone's signature to read "I love monkeys," they can do that.

Wow. What a storm.

I think the recent lack of success in the NCAA Tourney is more a function of the evolving college game (i.e., parity, recruting) than it is in Duke's "not performing."

Still, I was upset but hey, in the end it's basketball and these are great kids trying their best. Duke isn't going anywhere. We'll be just fine.

Jumbo, your last post "moved" me. See my new sig!

-EarlJam

[Edouble]

Please. We are guests in DBR's home. It's that simple. They were totally within their rights, and from the bit I saw before they shut it down, they certainly needed to do something. Again, we are guests...

Yeah, they were within their rights. It's a privately owned website. Obsesseddukefan didn't say they weren't within their rights. He said they were absurd and childish. Do you think that shutting down the boards was not absurd and childish? If you do, then say so. But I don't think it's right to argue against someone's point if you're not really addressing what the guy said in the first place.

He also said that we all have the right to talk about individual players, which according the the board decorum and guidelines, is allowed, as long as it's done with civility and done in a constructive way.

Personally, I can't say whether it was childish or not. I don't really care. But it sucks when someone is being ganged up on for something they didn't say.

[pfrduke]

Yeah, they were within their rights. It's a privately owned website. Obsesseddukefan didn't say they weren't within their rights. He said they were absurd and childish. Do you think that shutting down the boards was not absurd and childish? If you do, then say so. But I don't think it's right to argue against someone's point if you're not really addressing what the guy said in the first place.

He also said that we all have the right to talk about individual players, which according the the board decorum and guidelines, is allowed, as long as it's done with civility and done in a constructive way.

Personally, I can't say whether it was childish or not. I don't really care. But it sucks when someone is being ganged up on for something they didn't say.

Shutting down the boards was not absurd and childish. Several of the posts that appeared on the boards yesterday were.

And careful not to over-defend the original poster - he/she said that the reason DBR's decision to shut down the boards was absurd and childish was that "we all have an opinion and have a right to say whatever we want regarding this team." That very clearly indicates his belief that the "rights" of posters to express their opinions on DBR's site should trump the right of DBR to shut the site down. As several of us have pointed out, that's not true.

For what it's worth, I think this is a useful discussion. The original poster is not necessarily wrong to feel the way he/she does, and I'm sure several people shared that frustration with the board closure yesterday. It is helpful to remember at such times that we are permitted to be here at someone else's discretion, and rather than be angry that the boards are gone for fewer than 24 hours, we should be thankful that the forum is generally here for all of us 24/7/365.

[DukeColonial]

This all just makes me laugh. The first poster said nothing regarding the rights of DBR to shut the boards down. He said we all have an opinion to talk about this team and its players. His opinion was that DBR should not have shut down the board because they have given us a place to discuss the team and its positive and negative attributes. Maybe he went overboard calling it childish and absurd and yes, I think he is at fault for his choice of words. But immediately a number of other people lashed out at him for expressing his frustration with not being able to vent, because that is all he was saying. When someone tries to defend him, that person is told to be careful not to over-defend them. Why? If you agree with someone, then why not defend them?

DBR does seem to regulate this board to an extent where they try to weed out all the negativity, which, in my honest opinion, is a wrong way to do things. But again, that is their right. They keep some constructive criticism, but when they do, one of the moderators immediately jump to Duke's and its players and this board's defense. And that is fine, that is great. I appreciate that some people are fans that want to hilight the positives of the program, of which there are many. But Duke hasn't been the same in the last five or six seasons as they were even 8 years ago, and instead of just saying "well, 28-6 is a fine season," why can't we vent a little about the fact that they haven't been playing to the expectations that Duke has built over its history?

DBR's front page post seems to lament the fact that, as fans of one of the best college programs in history, we can not accept a 28-6 season as a solid season unless it ends in a championship. I think its fantastic that there are people out there who would rather be 20 and 12 if it meant Duke was fresher going into March. Instead of lamenting the astronomical expectations that winning has brought Duke, why can we not cherish that Duke and its fans are one of a handful of programs that can actually expect to contend for the title year in and year out? So that when we fall short of that goal, we can, as fans, critique what went wrong and what they would like to see in the future? I come to DBR for my Duke news and game recaps for games I can not see in person. But I do take umbridge at the pointed comments towards fans like myself who are not afraid to critique a team who did not fulfill the expectations that they have created. It smacks of elitism to me; that because I critique a player or a coach or the team, that I am in some way less of a fan than the ones who cheer them on. I have watched as many Duke games as I could since I was 8 years old, I have sweated out the close games, I have cheered during the wins and the losses, but when the team does something that I do not believe is positive, or that confuses me, or upsets me, or just plain doesn't live up the expectations that I have cultivated after 16 years of being a fan, then I want to be able to express my frustration somewhere. Even though I am upset with the loss yesterday and think that some things could and should be done differently at Duke, does mean that I am not going to cheer them loud and long next year, or cheer for the players who I criticized to grow as athletes and people, whether for Duke or in any other endeavor in life.

[BCGroup]

Yeah, they were within their rights. It's a privately owned website. Obsesseddukefan didn't say they weren't within their rights. He said they were absurd and childish. Do you think that shutting down the boards was not absurd and childish? If you do, then say so. But I don't think it's right to argue against someone's point if you're not really addressing what the guy said in the first place.

He also said that we all have the right to talk about individual players, which according the the board decorum and guidelines, is allowed, as long as it's done with civility and done in a constructive way.

Personally, I can't say whether it was childish or not. I don't really care. But it sucks when someone is being ganged up on for something they didn't say.

No, I don't think it was absurd and childish. Frankly, I believe they prevented more trouble than they caused--I would hate to think about college students reading the absurdity some of the posters here write. Do they have the right to their opinion? Absolutely. Should they post it where it will NEVER go away? I don't think so. I also recognize there are other sites where those types of diatribes are not only acceptable, they are welcome. That's the appropriate place for junk, not here. Some of us like the fact that DBR takes a higher road. Again, choose where you want to be a guest.

[Jumbo]

This all just makes me laugh. The first poster said nothing regarding the rights of DBR to shut the boards down. He said we all have an opinion to talk about this team and its players. His opinion was that DBR should not have shut down the board because they have given us a place to discuss the team and its positive and negative attributes. Maybe he went overboard calling it childish and absurd and yes, I think he is at fault for his choice of words. But immediately a number of other people lashed out at him for expressing his frustration with not being able to vent, because that is all he was saying. When someone tries to defend him, that person is told to be careful not to over-defend them. Why? If you agree with someone, then why not defend them?

DBR does seem to regulate this board to an extent where they try to weed out all the negativity, which, in my honest opinion, is a wrong way to do things. But again, that is their right. They keep some constructive criticism, but when they do, one of the moderators immediately jump to Duke's and its players and this board's defense. And that is fine, that is great. I appreciate that some people are fans that want to hilight the positives of the program, of which there are many. But Duke hasn't been the same in the last five or six seasons as they were even 8 years ago, and instead of just saying "well, 28-6 is a fine season," why can't we vent a little about the fact that they haven't been playing to the expectations that Duke has built over its history?

DBR's front page post seems to lament the fact that, as fans of one of the best college programs in history, we can not accept a 28-6 season as a solid season unless it ends in a championship. I think its fantastic that there are people out there who would rather be 20 and 12 if it meant Duke was fresher going into March. Instead of lamenting the astronomical expectations that winning has brought Duke, why can we not cherish that Duke and its fans are one of a handful of programs that can actually expect to contend for the title year in and year out? So that when we fall short of that goal, we can, as fans, critique what went wrong and what they would like to see in the future? I come to DBR for my Duke news and game recaps for games I can not see in person. But I do take umbridge at the pointed comments towards fans like myself who are not afraid to critique a team who did not fulfill the expectations that they have created. It smacks of elitism to me; that because I critique a player or a coach or the team, that I am in some way less of a fan than the ones who cheer them on. I have watched as many Duke games as I could since I was 8 years old, I have sweated out the close games, I have cheered during the wins and the losses, but when the team does something that I do not believe is positive, or that confuses me, or upsets me, or just plain doesn't live up the expectations that I have cultivated after 16 years of being a fan, then I want to be able to express my frustration somewhere. Even though I am upset with the loss yesterday and think that some things could and should be done differently at Duke, does mean that I am not going to cheer them loud and long next year, or cheer for the players who I criticized to grow as athletes and people, whether for Duke or in any other endeavor in life.

Two things:

1) I don't think you are correct in your assessment of what the DBR allows in terms of criticism. I have been a vocal critic of various aspects of the team for more than a decade. (I still get the urge to post "Play Casey Sanders!") But there is a real difference between destructive and constructive criticism. If you're going to criticize individuals, take the time to make sure your tone isn't nasty and your information is solid.
2) I have a real problem with your use of the term "vent" and the expectations applied to it. Everyone needs to vent. It's healthy to vent. But you don't need to vent on a public forum. If your boss ticked you off at work, would you grab a bullhorn and go to Times Square to "vent" about it? Or would you call a buddy? This is a public place, and what you say resonates and (rightly or wrongly) reflects on the Duke community. That's why discretion is valued.

[Lotus000]

Two things:
(I still get the urge to post "Play Casey Sanders!")

Good Lord, WHY? The kid couldn't catch a pass from JWill if his life depended on it. Hands like bricks.

[AluminumDuke]

... I do take umbridge at the pointed comments towards fans like myself who are not afraid to critique a team who did not fulfill the expectations that they have created. It smacks of elitism to me; that because I critique a player or a coach or the team, that I am in some way less of a fan than the ones who cheer them on.

You have a right to your opinion, and you have expressed it here. I am now going to express my opinion about your above comments. Please keep in mind that I am only addressing your comments in this post. I am not criticizing your posting history as I do not claim to be so immediately familiar with it to know whether or not such criticisms would be warranted.

First of all, I have not read any statements to the effect of "because you critique a player/coach/team you are less of a fan than the ones who cheer them on." When I see a parent at a soccer game screaming at the kids or the coach, my thought isn't that they are a less passionate fan than those around them, only that their expression of that passion is less appropriate. Given that the players on the team are 17 to 22 year old students, and that this is a public forum to which they have access, I feel that less than constructive criticisms here are also inappropriate. If the creators of this site share that opinion, what makes it elitist to act on that?

Secondly, your description of yourself as "not afraid to critique a team" smacks of elitism to me. Because I feel that it is inappropriate to criticize a student athlete as you would a professional, am I somehow less of a fan than those who are brave enough to do so?

Lastly, you base the right to critique the team on their failure to "fulfill the expectations that they have created." Does this mean that if they could lose more consistently and thus not create such lofty expectations they would then not warrant criticism? It is my opinion that this is not sound logic.

[DukeColonial]

I guess I am confused then. You just said this was a public place, and so we should censor ourselves and use discretion. But everyone else calls this a private space, and that DBR can use its own discretion regarding what it allows on the boards. So which is it? If it is indeed public, then people should be able to say what they want to say. But if it is private, then what is the use of expressing personal opinions unless you are only going to post things that are accepted by the moderators?

I concede your first point. I am not new to reading DBR, have been since I stumbled upon it looking for information about the Battier-Brand-Burgess-Avery recruiting class, and I went through a period where I read the boards every day, but haven't been as religious about it as I once did. But I do find that the more critical views around the boards are often attacked by the masses because they aren't always fawning over the players and the program, and I do not think that is healthy for a fan forum. If it is expected of everyone to post opinions of a certain decorum, then the least that should happen is the responses to any critical threads should be civil and accepting of other's views. If you want evidence of this, look at the thread regarding the ESPN ariticle written by a Penn State grad, who wrote unfavorably about Duke. The first response was "I don't pay attention to anything she writes. I think she is a UNC grad anyway" or something along those lines. Why can't she just be writing an article about how Duke has been as successful in the last 7 years? Why does she have to be a bad reporter or a UNC grad, or anything like that?

[Jumbo]

I guess I am confused then. You just said this was a public place, and so we should censor ourselves and use discretion. But everyone else calls this a private space, and that DBR can use its own discretion regarding what it allows on the boards. So which is it? If it is indeed public, then people should be able to say what they want to say. But if it is private, then what is the use of expressing personal opinions unless you are only going to post things that are accepted by the moderators?

It is public in the sense that anyone, anywhere can see what you read. It is privately owned, though, meaning the owners can do what they want with the site. Make sense?

[DukeColonial]

One quick question and then Im done. If a person is 22 years old and plays college sports, in what way is he that different than someone who is 22 and plays professionally? So one could criticize Dwight Howard, but not Tyler Hansborough? Is it just because Howard is payed to play basketball, because he chose to sign a contract to do it, whereas Hansborough only signed a scholarship to receive a free eduaction to play basketball? So in six months or however long, one is free to criticize Hansborough if he is in the NBA, but if he is still in college, he should be free of any criticism? And please, spare me any "no, he can be criticized because he plays for UNC"...

[Jumbo]

One quick question and then Im done. If a person is 22 years old and plays college sports, in what way is he that different than someone who is 22 and plays professionally? So one could criticize Dwight Howard, but not Tyler Hansborough? Is it just because Howard is payed to play basketball, because he chose to sign a contract to do it, whereas Hansborough only signed a scholarship to receive a free eduaction to play basketball? So in six months or however long, one is free to criticize Hansborough if he is in the NBA, but if he is still in college, he should be free of any criticism? And please, spare me any "no, he can be criticized because he plays for UNC"...

What are you trying to do at this point?

[Troublemaker]

This all just makes me laugh. The first poster said nothing regarding the rights of DBR to shut the boards down. He said we all have an opinion to talk about this team and its players. His opinion was that DBR should not have shut down the board because they have given us a place to discuss the team and its positive and negative attributes. Maybe he went overboard calling it childish and absurd and yes, I think he is at fault for his choice of words. But immediately a number of other people lashed out at him for expressing his frustration with not being able to vent, because that is all he was saying. When someone tries to defend him, that person is told to be careful not to over-defend them. Why? If you agree with someone, then why not defend them?

It's like complaining about stores not being open on X-mas. DBR had their reasons to shut down for awhile (and I happen to agree with them). What was the cost to you and me? A few hours of not being able to post? Big deal. The store is now open again and you can now "vent" according to the rules of the store.

But Duke hasn't been the same in the last five or six seasons as they were even 8 years ago, and instead of just saying "well, 28-6 is a fine season," why can't we vent a little about the fact that they haven't been playing to the expectations that Duke has built over its history?

"Venting" is fine, but follow the rules. Just like celebrating a win is fine, but you gotta follow the rules. Eg. "Wow!! What a great f---ing win! We totally a--r--ed that team!!!!!"

DBR's front page post seems to lament the fact that, as fans of one of the best college programs in history, we can not accept a 28-6 season as a solid season unless it ends in a championship. I think its fantastic that there are people out there who would rather be 20 and 12 if it meant Duke was fresher going into March. Instead of lamenting the astronomical expectations that winning has brought Duke, why can we not cherish that Duke and its fans are one of a handful of programs that can actually expect to contend for the title year in and year out?

We DO cherish that and it IS lamentable if one can only see negatives and not the positives to a season.

So that when we fall short of that goal, we can, as fans, critique what went wrong and what they would like to see in the future? I come to DBR for my Duke news and game recaps for games I can not see in person. But I do take umbridge at the pointed comments towards fans like myself who are not afraid to critique a team who did not fulfill the expectations that they have created. It smacks of elitism to me; that because I critique a player or a coach or the team, that I am in some way less of a fan than the ones who cheer them on. I have watched as many Duke games as I could since I was 8 years old, I have sweated out the close games, I have cheered during the wins and the losses, but when the team does something that I do not believe is positive, or that confuses me, or upsets me, or just plain doesn't live up the expectations that I have cultivated after 16 years of being a fan, then I want to be able to express my frustration somewhere. Even though I am upset with the loss yesterday and think that some things could and should be done differently at Duke, does mean that I am not going to cheer them loud and long next year, or cheer for the players who I criticized to grow as athletes and people, whether for Duke or in any other endeavor in life.

I just critiqued the team and posted about what I would like to see in the future in the 08-09 thread. I hope to see your reply.

[pfrduke]

I guess I am confused then. You just said this was a public place, and so we should censor ourselves and use discretion. But everyone else calls this a private space, and that DBR can use its own discretion regarding what it allows on the boards. So which is it? If it is indeed public, then people should be able to say what they want to say. But if it is private, then what is the use of expressing personal opinions unless you are only going to post things that are accepted by the moderators?

Don't confuse the ability to create content with the ability to access it. This is a private forum in that it is owned by DBR and the ability to create content on it is regulated by DBR (and the mods). DBR has chosen to make the content posted on the site available to the general public. With that in mind, they've chosen to limit the kinds of content that may be placed on the site.

And people are getting a touch uptight about this. No one is saying you can't criticize. No one is saying you can't offer your opinion on what needs to change. All people are being asked is to do so in a manner that is civil and not destructive.