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  1. #141
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorp4me View Post
    Not sure where we finished in the rankings, but a #2 seed should put us somewhere between #5 and #8 so I'd say we overachieved.
    I'd say we basically met expectations. We certainly overachieved for the first half of the year. Then, we ran out of gas. We were probably the worst of the #2 seeds, but because we weren't going to be put in UNC's region we got sent to the West. So finishing the regular season #8 versus a preseason ranking of #11 is more or less meeting expectations. It certainly isn't wildly outperforming expectations, as the original poster seemed to imply. Even though it was really a tale of two seasons for us.

  2. #142
    We really need to get back to penetration in the lane. Open up 3's, and allows plays to be made. LT needs to emerge. Him and Z hold the fate in next season.

  3. #143
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorp4me View Post
    Not sure where we finished in the rankings, but a #2 seed should put us somewhere between #5 and #8 so I'd say we overachieved.
    fwiw, we finished #16.

  4. #144
    I didn't mean we overachieved by a lot and that we weren't supposed to be very good. The facts are we lost 11 games the year before and to be ranked at #11 in the preseason was a little ridiculous. Now, I thought we were probably closer to #15 or #16 at the beginning of the year which is where we ended up finishing.

    I do agree it was a tale of two seasons. We were consistently overachieving throughout much of the regular season and playing at a top 5 to top 10 level, and obviously the second half was much harder and disappointing. Before the year I thought a Sweet 16 would have been good, and by the end of the year I had Elite Eight expectations. So obviously very disappointing, but I am just saying we still had a solid to good year for all our deficiencies (like I said earlier we didn't have a strong senior class and most of the players on our team were still very young). My whole point was to say we shouldn't be too disappointed, but we should be excited because these next three years could be special with everybody becoming older and improving.

  5. #145
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix1686 View Post
    I do agree it was a tale of two seasons. We were consistently overachieving throughout much of the regular season and playing at a top 5 to top 10 level, and obviously the second half was much harder and disappointing. Before the year I thought a Sweet 16 would have been good, and by the end of the year I had Elite Eight expectations. So obviously very disappointing, but I am just saying we still had a solid to good year for all our deficiencies (like I said earlier we didn't have a strong senior class and most of the players on our team were still very young.
    I agree that we had a pretty solid to good season, despite our deficiencies. I think you're missing the point on our deficiencies. Inexperience and lack of senior leadership wasn't a problem, in my opinion. We had a senior leader who played great for us, and we had a junior starter and two sophomore starters. It was lack of post play and lack of a great point guard (Paulus was essentially a shooting guard).

    Quote Originally Posted by matrix1686 View Post
    My whole point was to say we shouldn't be too disappointed, but we should be excited because these next three years could be special with everybody becoming older and improving.
    I think it's fair to be disappointed in how we finished based on where we were in early February. At the same time, I agree that it's important to consider the progress made over the course of the season.

    As far as next year, I don't know that I'd expect us to make a quantum jump next year like we made early this year. Ultimately, I think we'll run into the same questions next year that we had this year. We'll need to either have someone step up and fill those voids, or we'll need to find a way to continue to mask the weaknesses. Otherwise, we'll be similar to this team - capable of beating any team on any given night (if we're hot from the field), but likely to be the underdog against an elite, well-balanced team.

  6. #146
    You are exactly right when you say that our real weaknesses were post play and lack of a true point guard. I think we can get improved post play next year from Zoubek. The foot injury doesn't help but I just feel like he will develop a lot more this summer. If he could just learn not to walk then we would have a consistent 10 ppg scorer maybe more, so I think we can develop there. I also think Lance will improve too. Next year they'll have two seasons in the program and two full summers of conditioning and strength training, so there is hope there. Point guard play isn't horrible. I think Paulus is good but I feel like he has listened to doubters too much when they say he is unathletic and can't drive. I think he has practically stopped trying to drive to the basket. If he would drive more I think we would see a better PG. I'm not saying he has to finish but I know he can drive and find other teammates for open shots. I think Paulus will make strides. Will he ever reach his HS potential, who knows?

    Now, I know I said senior leadership, but what I really mean is upperclassmen as a whole. We had Nelson, Paulus, and McClure who doesn't play much. Looking at our NC teams you can see that is not enough leadership. Next year we will have Paulus, McClure, Pocius, Scheyer, Henderson, Thomas, and Zoubek as upperclassmen. That's a lot more maturity for the team. The difference between freshman & sophomores and then a junior mentally and physically can be quite big so I mean there is a good chance we make another jump next year.

    Originally after WVU beat us I felt the same as you that we won't improve much. We would be practically the same team next year and would falter again. While that is still a good possibility, I would say it's a 50/50 chance that happens, we could also improve quite a bit it's really all on the players and how hard they work this offseason. Most of our players have plenty of areas they could improve on. Zoubek and Lance can improve their bodies and their post games, Singler can improve his body, McClure could improve his shot, and on and on. So I mean we don't have to stay status quo. If these kids get out and work hard which I'm sure they will then there is no reason we don't improve. We will have more upperclassmen than many teams in America. These cinderella squads in the NCAAs usually are junior and senior laden teams so think about how good we could be with mostly juniors and seniors especially considering our players have more raw talent.

  7. #147
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix1686 View Post
    Point guard play isn't horrible. I think Paulus is good but I feel like he has listened to doubters too much when they say he is unathletic and can't drive. I think he has practically stopped trying to drive to the basket. If he would drive more I think we would see a better PG. I'm not saying he has to finish but I know he can drive and find other teammates for open shots. I think Paulus will make strides. Will he ever reach his HS potential, who knows?
    Paulus more or less stopped being a playmaking point guard last year. I will be very surprised if he makes major strides in this area next year. If he does, then our prospects look a lot brighter. He's a solid shooter and offensive weapon, but he's far from the playmaking point guard we need. And it's not just driving that is the issue. It's confidence against pressure defense and it's ability to defend quicker players on the perimeter.

    Quote Originally Posted by matrix1686 View Post
    Now, I know I said senior leadership, but what I really mean is upperclassmen as a whole. We had Nelson, Paulus, and McClure who doesn't play much. Looking at our NC teams you can see that is not enough leadership. Next year we will have Paulus, McClure, Pocius, Scheyer, Henderson, Thomas, and Zoubek as upperclassmen. That's a lot more maturity for the team. The difference between freshman & sophomores and then a junior mentally and physically can be quite big so I mean there is a good chance we make another jump next year.
    I think the thing that the Final Four squads had was more talent, not simply more experience. Without Rose, Memphis' veterans don't sniff the final four. Without Love, the same is true at UCLA. Those two were the best players on their team, and were largely the reason for their success. UNC wasn't that much more experienced than us, playing one senior sparingly and three juniors regularly, along with a bunch of sophomores. Their advantage was in depth and balance.

    Quote Originally Posted by matrix1686 View Post
    Most of our players have plenty of areas they could improve on. Zoubek and Lance can improve their bodies and their post games, Singler can improve his body, McClure could improve his shot, and on and on. So I mean we don't have to stay status quo. If these kids get out and work hard which I'm sure they will then there is no reason we don't improve. We will have more upperclassmen than many teams in America. These cinderella squads in the NCAAs usually are junior and senior laden teams so think about how good we could be with mostly juniors and seniors especially considering our players have more raw talent.
    I agree that our team has many areas in which we can improve internally. But I'm less optimistic that we'll see huge strides. Hopefully I'm wrong. But McClure has needed to improve his offensive game for three summers already, and hasn't made substantial improvements. Zoubek has lost possibly half of his summer with another foot surgery, and he had a lot to work on to begin with. I really doubt Paulus is ever going to be a good perimeter defender, so unless we face teams in which we can hide him, he's going to be a liability on that end. I guess I disagree that there's no reason we won't improve if the guys simply work hard this offseason. I think it would take a lot of things going right even with the hard work for us to improve this offseason.

    That's not to say that no improvement next year is a terrible thing. We'll still be a top-15 team, just like this year. In fact, we may or may not be better next year (relative to the competition) simply due to attrition of some of the better programs. And even with the holes we have, we could underdog our way to the Final Four with a good draw and good fortune. But I don't see us jumping into the category that this year's final four teams had - being sure-fire top-5 and strong favorites to make the final four. There are far worse positions to be in, of course.

  8. #148
    I think the thing that the Final Four squads had was more talent, not simply more experience. Without Rose, Memphis' veterans don't sniff the final four. Without Love, the same is true at UCLA. Those two were the best players on their team, and were largely the reason for their success. UNC wasn't that much more experienced than us, playing one senior sparingly and three juniors regularly, along with a bunch of sophomores. Their advantage was in depth and balance.



    But McClure has needed to improve his offensive game for three summers already, and hasn't made substantial improvements.

    I agree that Rose and Love had a big part in UCLA and Memphis' Final Four runs and that all four teams had more talent than everybody else, but next year we could have more talent than most of the nation. Many teams are probably going to lose a lot of players. I would expect UCLA to lose Collison, Love, and Westbrook. Kansas should lose Rush, Arhtur, and probably Chalmers. Memphis loses Rose and CDR. Then look at the incoming freshman class. There really aren't any major studs like Love, Rose, Beasely, and Gordon. Jennings is good, but Arizona will prob lose Bayless and Budinger. So who does that leave near the top of the standings? UConn could lose Thabeet so I mean there should be a lot of attrition from major schools this offseason. That is not even mentioning UNC where hopefully Hansbrough, Lawson, and Ellington leave. When you look at these things then you have to think Duke will have as much talent as anybody next year with Singler and Henderson.

    Just a quick note on McClure. I think he was really coming along offensively the year before. He was starting to knock down open jump shots and even three pointers, but then he got injured and obviously regressed to the point of not shooting at all last year. I think if he can just get back to that level of having confidence to take an open shot and hit it than that would be a major help because he's such a great hustler.
    Last edited by matrix1686; 04-09-2008 at 11:19 AM. Reason: quotations

  9. #149
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    "But McClure has needed to improve his offensive game for three summers already, and hasn't made substantial improvements."

    Yea, that whole walking around on crutches thing is just such an excuse. I mean, three knee operations is nothing.

  10. #150
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    "But McClure has needed to improve his offensive game for three summers already, and hasn't made substantial improvements."

    Yea, that whole walking around on crutches thing is just such an excuse. I mean, three knee operations is nothing.
    Knee operations or no knee operations, do you expect him to have an offensive game next year?

    I'm not trying to badmouth anyone. Far from it - I love the effort McClure has put in and wish everyone gave what he gives to the program. I'm just trying to point out that hard work doesn't guarantee a new and improved player.

    As is, we've got a really good team. I'm going to be cautious in my optimism about some of the pieces we have getting substantially better.

  11. #151

    Nelson

    Quote Originally Posted by matrix1686 View Post
    I didn't mean we overachieved by a lot and that we weren't supposed to be very good. The facts are we lost 11 games the year before and to be ranked at #11 in the preseason was a little ridiculous. Now, I thought we were probably closer to #15 or #16 at the beginning of the year which is where we ended up finishing.

    I do agree it was a tale of two seasons. We were consistently overachieving throughout much of the regular season and playing at a top 5 to top 10 level, and obviously the second half was much harder and disappointing. Before the year I thought a Sweet 16 would have been good, and by the end of the year I had Elite Eight expectations. So obviously very disappointing, but I am just saying we still had a solid to good year for all our deficiencies (like I said earlier we didn't have a strong senior class and most of the players on our team were still very young). My whole point was to say we shouldn't be too disappointed, but we should be excited because these next three years could be special with everybody becoming older and improving.
    Nelson recently played and starred in a high level all star type game. His game was obviously back to excellent mid season form. I still tend to attribute his lack of quality play for the last few games to illness, even though he said no. If Nelson played anywhere near his best in the last couple, Duke would have at least advanced to the Great 8. We would have thought that accomplishment to be outstanding. It was just the way we lost that caused all the anguish.

    Not only was Nelson way off his game but it appeared Thomas was also. He was probably ill as well.

    My point is we will have equal talent next year and if we keep them healthy we will likely be a Great 8 team. Once at that level, who knows. Get them flu shots next season.

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