Discussion of 2008-09

[Jumbo]

Something to look forward to over the next 2 years is experience. I think Duke will have the experience factor often seen in mid-majors that come into the tournament knowing each other very well.

I think that is an excellent point.

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

Singler, Henderson and Scheyer are all NBA locks. If you're going to rant, at least rant based on some solid information. Thank you.

I'm really curious to why Scheyer is considered a lock.

[sundown]

Singler, Henderson and Scheyer are all NBA locks. If you're going to rant, at least rant based on some solid information. Thank you.

Locks to get drafted, or to actually make a team and stick around? Henderson and Singler will obviously be drafted whenever they come out, and I imagine Scheyer one day will, too -- though I wouldn't call him a "lock," as he seems barely if at all on the NBA radar at this point. As to the question of whether these guys will have NBA careers: time will tell. Better prospects, surely better than Scheyer, have failed to make it. It seems worth noting that neither Singler nor Henderson is in Chad Ford's top 50 for NBA prospects this coming year, and draftexpress has Scheyer ranked 49th among sophomores. Ford probably has Henderson and Singler too low, as both (particularly G) would likely be first-rounders in the next draft, and Henderson could be a lottery pick next year. But to the extent this debate is about "solid information," I'm curious what information leads you to conclude all three are locks, and what exactly they're locks for.

[SeattleIrish]

[thread hijack] BZE:

While I can understand lingering doubts about this team's potential, I think we will be a MUCH improved team next year. Does anyone really believe Henderson, Singler and Scheyer won't make an All-ACC Team next year? Injuries aside, I don't see that happening. We'll have a very experienced team, with great SR/JR leadership, and we'll benefit greatly from the usual soph-to-jr improvement.

We're gonna be VERY good next year, IMO. I don't believe "About the same as this year" will even be close. Let the haters enjoy the off season (they certainly will), 'cause Duke is going to be scary next year.

s.i.

[/thread hijack}

The only one who could realistically want to leave for the NBA is Henderson and his wrist injury pretty much kills his stock so I can't see him leaving. Singler is a late first round pick if he leaves, maybe even second round. I can't see him leaving unless he gets some really bad advice.

We should be about the same next year with Williams picking up most of what DeMarc gave us and everyone getting another year under their belt.

Keys for next year are developing Lance and Zoubek inside if thats possible. We need someone who can score inside everyone once in awhile and not turn the ball over so much. Singler will be better but I don't see him being a dominant inside guy at any point.

All in all I doubt anyone leaves and we're probably about the same next year, maybe a little better.

[NYC Duke Fan]

I do not have the answer. Their style of play while making for a very successful season, in my mind cannot win an NCAA championship.

Next year I see the same year as this year...a very successful year but no chance of winning the tournament. It has been said ad nauseum that Duke does not have an inside presence and that is true and if you look at the last 4 year champions they all athletic big men and an inside presence...Florida had Horford and Noah, UNC had May and Williams and UConn had Okafor.

Duke will not have it next year unless Zoubek becomes one and Coach K gives him playing time.I don't think that Czyz will be the immediate answer either.

The one thing that puzzles me also was that this year was suppose to be different in that Coach K was going to have depth something he did not have in previous years. Yet it seems to me that for the most part lof the second half of the year and in the ACC tournament and NCAAs, McClure, Thomas, Smith and King did not provide any depth. Some of the commentators said that Duke looked tired.

[SeattleIrish]

While Jon Scheyer putting on 7 inches and 100 lbs is probably a long shot, does anyone really think we won't have at least 3 players making the All ACC teams? Barring injury, Henderson, Scheyer and Singler are almost certain to make it (IMO), and Paulus probably will...who knows how good Elliot is going to be? I also am of the opinion Zoubek will be on the All ACC squad before he graduates (he really improved this year).

I think we'll be hella-tough to knock out next year.

I'm on board, baby!

s.i.

[BlueintheFace]

So many of you have talked about recruiting and developing a traditional big man .... well, Coach K doesn't seem to have the same vision as many on this board. His top big man recruit for the class of 2009 committed a few weeks ago- Mason Plumlee. The kid is 6'11" and thin as a pole. Plumlee is NOT a back to the basket player. He chose duke because he like's how K plays Singler. The other scholarship offered to a big man went to Greg Echenique who was at Duke for the Carolina game. He is 6'8" and 240. Echenique has the elton brand body type, but would need a lot of development. He is certainly not considered a "top flight" prospect.

There are no Elton Brands, Shelden Williams, or Carlos Boozers coming in the door in the near future. I truly believe K is committing his next 3 or 4 years to developing this new brand of basketball (mobile big men, drive and kick, three pointers, and strong guards).

The bad news--- We have no help in rebounding coming in next season.
The good news--- next year we have essentially the same team, but ONE YEAR OLDER. I hope none of you forget how much of a huge leap Duke players make from Freshman to Sophomore years (health willing). Plus, Mason Plumlee is a seriously good rebounder!! He will be a big help 2 years from now. We might even be talking about the twin towers of Zou and Plumlee in March of 2010... ummmm maybe.

[SeattleIrish]

I agree. Duke needs to reevaluate their recruiting strategy. It's not that the players we have aren't good or great. But they seem to FEAR one-and-done situations like this. Part of me wonders whether they recruit kids who are simply too "nice" and want very badly to please K and the fans, uphold tradition, and graduate (the real reason there's a Duke University). We need players who just don't care about that, and have that killer instinct regardless of who, when or where they play.

Battierfan:

You REALLY need to post that stuff with a smiley-winky. I'm going to assume you don't really mean we don't need player who want to please their coach, or uphold traditions, or graduate...it's gotta be a forgotten smiley-winky! It's just gotta be.

s.i.

[Wander]

Here's what needs to change in 2009. When a player is sick as hell and clearly isn't fit to play a basketball game, you don't play him! That's all. If we can do this, I think we'll be just fine next year.

[Deschet]

Battierfan:

You REALLY need to post that stuff with a smiley-winky. I'm going to assume you don't really mean we don't need player who want to please their coach, or uphold traditions, or graduate...it's gotta be a forgotten smiley-winky! It's just gotta be.

s.i.

It was... er... poorly phrased. But, I think we both know at what point he was getting. We need "ballers." And, though I am loathe to make this comparison, we need a Corey Maggette. Only taller.

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

So many of you have talked about recruiting and developing a traditional big man .... well, Coach K doesn't seem to have the same vision as many on this board. His top big man recruit for the class of 2009 committed a few weeks ago- Mason Plumlee. The kid is 6'11" and thin as a pole. Plumlee is NOT a back to the basket player. He chose duke because he like's how K plays Singler. The other scholarship offered to a big man went to Greg Echenique who was at Duke for the Carolina game. He is 6'8" and 240. Echenique has the elton brand body type, but would need a lot of development. He is certainly not considered a "top flight" prospect.

There are no Elton Brands, Shelden Williams, or Carlos Boozers coming in the door in the near future. I truly believe K is committing his next 3 or 4 years to developing this new brand of basketball (mobile big men, drive and kick, three pointers, and strong guards).

The bad news--- We have no help in rebounding coming in next season.
The good news--- next year we have essentially the same team, but ONE YEAR OLDER. I hope none of you forget how much of a huge leap Duke players make from Freshman to Sophomore years (health willing). Plus, Mason Plumlee is a seriously good rebounder!! He will be a big help 2 years from now. We might even be talking about the twin towers of Zou and Plumlee in March of 2010... ummmm maybe.

Not sure exactly if we'll be the same team. We are losing our leading scorer and rebounder in Nelson. Our starting "big man," Lance Thomas, only averages 3 rebounds and plays around 20 minutes a game.

A lot of our success next year - or the potential of next years team as compared to this years - lies in how much weight Lance can put on in the off season (and of course how well he can use that weight next year). Hopefully he's already half way done with a jar full of muscle milk.

[Jarhead]

I agree. Duke needs to reevaluate their recruiting strategy. It's not that the players we have aren't good or great. But they seem to FEAR one-and-done situations like this. Part of me wonders whether they recruit kids who are simply too "nice" and want very badly to please K and the fans, uphold tradition, and graduate (the real reason there's a Duke University). We need players who just don't care about that, and have that killer instinct regardless of who, when or where they play.

One would think that since you are using of Shane Battier's name in your user name, you would not have that attitude.

[Channing]

I don't know if Duke will necessarily be a final four team next year - but here is how I think the team will improve:

(1) Singler: As a sophomore, I am confident he will be able to retain a high level of play throughout the season. If my memory serves me correctly, Scheyer's production slumped at the end of last year. This year, however, Scheyer was one of our most consistent contributors down the stretch.

(2) Zoubek will hopefully be able to stay healthy. I know reports are reports, but last summer the reports were that Z had made great strides. Then he broke his foot and really regressed. The last few games I think he started to show positive production, and I hope with a full offseason he can really build his confidence. I know he has been criticized, but when I see him play and make moves I see talent and potential. More often than not, it seems he gets into trouble because he isnt strong enough (either getting bumped and walking or having the ball stripeed). With some good conditioning I think Z can be a very strong contributor

(3) King: If King dedicates himself to fitness this summer I think he can see a huge change. It seemed apparent to me that he suffered from a lack of confidence the second half of the season. Hopefully with some conditioning he can keep his defensive intensity up and become a much bigger weapon on offense. The shot he hit from the corner yesterday was much bigger than I think most people gave credit for. It proved that he is not just a set shooter, but rather that he can create off the bounce and create his own jumpshot, and shoot it confidently.

(4) Nolan Smith and Greg Paulus: I would like to see them play on the floor together sometimes. I know people say Greg is a defensive liability, but he is also one of our best shooters. I dont have a problem with him being on the floor, and if he is on the floor with Nolan, hopefully Nolan will take the quicker guard and Greg will take the other guard.

(5) G: Showed his metal in the tournament. A healthy wrist and another year of maturity and I think we can really see him shine. If he makes a leap from soph to jr like he did from fresh to soph he could be really special.

(6) E-Mail: I really dont know exactly what his game is, but I am picturing something like Josh Shipp out at UCLA. Remember when Markie was so effective getting to the rack earlier in the year - when he and G were on the court together it was a thing of beauty. Hopefully E-mail can bring another scorer's mentality with the ability to create and cause problems.

(7) X-Factor: Marty!!!!! Marty will ALWAYS be the X-factor.

[The1Bluedevil]

Does anyone think their is any chance Duke will go big? Play Kyle, Lance and Z together. I just think that since Z has to be a big contributor next year to get to the 2nd weekend it's either play him 20-25 per or not at all.

[JBDuke]

Not sure exactly if we'll be the same team. We are losing our leading scorer and rebounder in Nelson. Our starting "big man," Lance Thomas, only averages 3 rebounds and plays around 20 minutes a game.

A lot of our success next year - or the potential of next years team as compared to this years - lies in how much weight Lance can put on in the off season (and of course how well he can use that weight next year). Hopefully he's already half way done with a jar full of muscle milk.

FYI, Kyle was our leading rebounder this year - by a total of one rebound. And while Lance may have started, his role was hardly to be the lone "big man" on the team. Lance has some unique skills and abilities, and I, for one, want to see him exploit those to the greatest extent, not necessarily to try and become something else. And I don't think his body is made to become a bulky power forward.

[JBDuke]

Does anyone think their is any chance Duke will go big? Play Kyle, Lance and Z together. I just think that since Z has to be a big contributor next year to get to the 2nd weekend it's either play him 20-25 per or not at all.

Almost certainly not, due to the profusion of talented guards on the team next year. I suspect Duke's rotation will look a lot like this year's, with maybe a little less of "Kyle and Four Guards" if Brian and Lance make big strides, or if Olek turns out to be a lot more ready to play than most expect.

[Huh?]

Elliot Williams will be an upgrade, he will be a TRUE 6'4" with athleticism, he looks fluid with a nice stroke. Czyz (sp?) looks like an animal underneath when he gets around the rim. Even though he is listed 6'7" or 6'8" that doesn't matter, he's got hops. You can be 7'2", but if your vertical is 2 1/2 inches, it doesn't matter how tall you are.

Henderson and Singler should be our guys next year, and we all know Scheyer is going to do his thing. Hopefully TK will get more PT. I hope Lance Thomas calms down, we really need him on the glass, not on the bench. Nolan will be the "X" factor. He has all the tools to not be good, but a great PG. He finishes around the rim, gets rebounds, and will hit an open jumper. He is velcro on D and I love his feel for the game. As you can tell, i really like this guy.

Our team will be very talented, lets hope that translates to a deep tourny run...GO DEVILS!

[Jumbo]

I'm really curious to why Scheyer is considered a lock.

Well, if you don't see it for yourself, it's hard to explain. The short answer is that league sources have told me as much.

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

FYI, Kyle was our leading rebounder this year - by a total of one rebound. And while Lance may have started, his role was hardly to be the lone "big man" on the team. Lance has some unique skills and abilities, and I, for one, want to see him exploit those to the greatest extent, not necessarily to try and become something else. And I don't think his body is made to become a bulky power forward.

There is no question whatsoever in that Lance needs to put on some sort of weight. Unless he can become more explosive and athletic some how, but weight would be his easiest solution (and most beneficial for the team). We need him to double his rebound total from last year - and if you watched closely - he was constantly pushed off the blocks. He at least needs to get strong enough to hold his ground.

[kydevil]

Not sure exactly if we'll be the same team. We are losing our leading scorer and rebounder in Nelson. Our starting "big man," Lance Thomas, only averages 3 rebounds and plays around 20 minutes a game.

Ya but we gain back Marty!