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  1. #41

    On A Similar Note..

    Quote Originally Posted by Buckeye Devil View Post
    West Virginia word for the day: FAR, as in "The mountaineer mascot likes to FAR his muzzleloader."
    my dad used to imitate one of his co-workers (who may have been from WV) by speaking the following sentence: "I hired Howard because he's a hard worker."

    Of course, it came out like this: "I hard Hard cuz he's a hard worker."

  2. #42

    Use the bench!!!!!

    Last night and in some previous losses we are unable to reliably score in the last 5 minutes - at all. No jump shots go down - our guys are tired and have no legs at the end (except Gerald).

    I thought K was actually changing his tune a little in the Clemson game by subbing a lot more, but he was back to his usual self - playing essentially the same 5 guys for about the last 10 minutes of last nights' game.

    Yes, I know Zoubek couldn't stay with their big guy, but every time I looked at the bench - there were he, Smith, McClure, King, and sometimes Thomas. King gets no time in the second half??? Come on?

    Belmont was always fresh and ready to go - and really deserved to win.

    Coach - you've got a wealth of talent - use it!

  3. #43

    Matchups

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Berg View Post
    I think we match up well with WVU. Singler has played decent D even in the games where he struggled...just needs to not commit stupid fouls. Markie needs some flu medicine; G needs to be put into cryogenic suspension immediately after his postgame shower.
    WVU looks very competent and battle tested. Singler will need to guard their best and will have to stop committing fouls due to being overeager. We need him in the game.

    Scheyer will need to play most of the game. I would start Jon, since our starting 5 have looked pretty anemic in many games. It doesn't make a lot of sense to get behind and to give the opponent confidence in the first few minutes.

    If DeMarcus hasn't recovered sufficiently, we could start Henderson, Scheyer, Paulus, Singler and Zoubek. Smith can sub at guard but he has to stop overplaying as much. It wears him out and he tends to lose his man. He has a lot of offensive potential and we should encourage that. DeMarcus should play if he feels up to it, but not if he cannot manage to be effective. I know he is a senior and it may be his last game, so I favor playing him if at all possible.

    We need Thomas to play well, but he hasn't of late. I have no idea what is wrong there but we do have McClure and King who can back up the bigs.

    They are not the kind of team with blazing speed but do show a lot of desire and battle hard for loose balls. Arizona was a pretty good team with some excellent players and WVU handled them. It won't be easy out there.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Washington, DC
    Quote Originally Posted by RelativeWays View Post
    We need a shaman to cast a bunch of buffs on our team before the game. Then maybe we'll win.
    Ok, I laughed very hard at this...

  5. #45
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    Feb 2007
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    Washington D.C.

    Start Zoubek? Please don't.

    Saratoga2 wants Zoubek to start instead of a sick Nelson? No, no, no. I cringe at that thought. I'll take a coughing, wheezing Nelson wheeled out on the court, with an IV sticking out of his arm, tossing up his knuckleball jumpers, instead of giving Zoubek the start. And I still like Big Game Jon coming off the bench, as he is really our only reliable bench player and can sub in at any position.

  6. #46
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    Feb 2007
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    Chesapeake, VA.
    I don't like that the list of teams to which WVa has lost reads like the AP Top Ten.

    I think these guys would be a tough game even if we were healthy. We need to pray for them to have an off game and for some of our outside shooters to catch fire.

  7. #47

    No kick out? Take it to the hole, then

    Others have touched on this, but with teams hedging more in the latter part of the season to prevent our kickouts to wide open 3-point shooters, our shot selection has suffered. I haven't looked at numbers, but it sure seems like our 3-point shooting has dropped off, and I feel like we're hoisting off the dribble or with guys in our face more often. From what I saw of the game last night (and it was much more than I would ever have wanted to see - I don't want CBS to feel compelled to broadcast one second of our first round matchup), I think when we saw success toward the end of the game it was through a slightly different tactic. If the opposing defense is going to shade toward the line to close on exterior shooting, let someone take it all the way to the hoop. If his wrist holds up, Henderson is a very good finisher. Let him get 12 early points and rack up fouls on the defense by slashing through the lane, and eventually the perimeter will open up again. Does West Virginia have someone who can stick with him man-to-man, without help down the lane?

    Coach K is great at throwing a wrinkle in at the start of a game, that goes off the scouting report and makes the opponent make a tactical change to deal with it, at which point we gain the upper hand. I wouldn't be surprised if he starts against WVU by limiting the kickouts, trying to get to the rim or getting Thomas or someone easy buckets on the dish. Perhaps using the top of the key screen for Henderson more often, while having Singler slice to the lane on the penetration instead of floating down the baseline to the corner so much. It could loosen us up if it works, instead of making it feel like we're just hoping someone magically gets wide open for a 20-footer before the shot clock starts winding down and we panic. Everone's aware that there seems to be a correlation with our shooting <35% from 3 and our losing, so they're devoting a lot of energy to defending the 3. It would be an interesting wrinkle to just termporarily abandon the 3, then, and make them start focusing on something else. Then the 3 will miraculously open up again. Perhaps risky, I guess, going away from your strength. But it hasn't been that much of a strength recently, other than against weak teams like Tech and NC State.

    I'm just glad Pittsnoggle's gone.

  8. #48
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    Feb 2007
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    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
    Others have touched on this, but with teams hedging more in the latter part of the season to prevent our kickouts to wide open 3-point shooters, our shot selection has suffered. I haven't looked at numbers, but it sure seems like our 3-point shooting has dropped off, and I feel like we're hoisting off the dribble or with guys in our face more often. From what I saw of the game last night (and it was much more than I would ever have wanted to see - I don't want CBS to feel compelled to broadcast one second of our first round matchup), I think when we saw success toward the end of the game it was through a slightly different tactic. If the opposing defense is going to shade toward the line to close on exterior shooting, let someone take it all the way to the hoop. If his wrist holds up, Henderson is a very good finisher. Let him get 12 early points and rack up fouls on the defense by slashing through the lane, and eventually the perimeter will open up again. Does West Virginia have someone who can stick with him man-to-man, without help down the lane?

    Coach K is great at throwing a wrinkle in at the start of a game, that goes off the scouting report and makes the opponent make a tactical change to deal with it, at which point we gain the upper hand. I wouldn't be surprised if he starts against WVU by limiting the kickouts, trying to get to the rim or getting Thomas or someone easy buckets on the dish. Perhaps using the top of the key screen for Henderson more often, while having Singler slice to the lane on the penetration instead of floating down the baseline to the corner so much. It could loosen us up if it works, instead of making it feel like we're just hoping someone magically gets wide open for a 20-footer before the shot clock starts winding down and we panic. Everone's aware that there seems to be a correlation with our shooting <35% from 3 and our losing, so they're devoting a lot of energy to defending the 3. It would be an interesting wrinkle to just termporarily abandon the 3, then, and make them start focusing on something else. Then the 3 will miraculously open up again. Perhaps risky, I guess, going away from your strength. But it hasn't been that much of a strength recently, other than against weak teams like Tech and NC State.

    I'm just glad Pittsnoggle's gone.
    I don't think it's that simple. The problem isn't simply that teams aren't collapsing on the drive anymore. The problem is that, with the hedging is that we aren't able to get the dribble penetration anymore. Without the dribble penetration, the passing lanes aren't created for the easy kick-out threes. So if we can't create the easy dribble penetration that leads to the kickouts for three, then we aren't going to get the easy drives to the rim either.

    We either have to figure out a way to create more (or more effective) dribble penetration, or we have to find a different way to score. Early in the year, we scored off of turnovers and dribble penetration leading to kickout threes. Teams seem to have found a way to cut down on our dribble penetration a bit, and we don't seem to be forcing as many easy buckets off of turnovers. Either we have to find a new way to recreate the forced turnovers and dribble penetration, or we have to find a new way to create offense in the halfcourt.

  9. #49
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    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Fatigue will be a factor in this game.

    Duke may suffer from it from an emotionally draining game last night. Plus, as we have heard so much, Duke is physically sick right now. Still, despite the fact that K used largely the same 5 guys for the bulk of the 2nd half, we used our bench a ton more than West Virginia did and that may be to our advantage.

    No one for Duke played more than 34 minutes. West Virginia had Alexander at 37 minutes, Butler at 38, and Ruoff playing all 40 minutes of the game. Those 3 guys plus Nicholas all averaged better than 30 minutes per game on the season. Demarcus Nelson is the only Dukie who averaged more than 30 minutes per game on the season.

    No two ways about it-- we are deeper and use our bench more than they do.

    What's more-- aside from a tournament in mid-November and the back-to-back games of the Big East Tourney, West Virginia did not play a single 2-games-in-3 days scenario during the regular season like they face today. Granted, Duke only did it once (at the end of January when we played NCSU late on a Saturday night and then Miami on Saturday), but both teams are going to have to adjust to the quick turnaround and (again) I like our deeper team in a situation like that.

    --Jason "I really hope K continues to do what he has lately, using a lot of the bench in the first half-- and press/attack on D to make West Virginia wear down some" Evans

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    The problem is that, with the hedging is that we aren't able to get the dribble penetration anymore.
    I agree there's no snap your fingers, "Voila!" solution here, but am I reading you correctly on the above - are you saying that a current inability to get initial dribble penetration is partly a result of defenses pressing outside to stop 3's? Or are you saying that we're being hampered independently by an inability to penetrate and lack of collapse when we do? If it's the former, I guess I disagree. To the extent they're all up in our face 20 feet out, it should actually make it easier to get by your guy without immediate help arriving, and find some space in the lane. Unless they're playing off whoever has the ball, and faceguarding everyone else beyond the 3-point line (in which case backdoor cutting would be in order), it shouldn't be any harder to get past someone with the dribble than it typically might be. If we're truly not getting initial penetration to the extent we were before, then you're right, we need to put in some different screening scheme or something, or sacrifice a little passing flow to make it a bigger priority for Nelson or Henderson to break down their guy whenever the opportunity presents itself. Personally, I'm seeing more of a problem of getting to within 12 feet but, without four guys collapsing to the ball, not knowing what to do with it. Regardless, I think if they set their minds to springing a particular guy free to penetrate, they can make it happen - they just need to be penetrating with a mindset of taking it to the rack rather than doing so to free up someone outside.

    Good point about not getting points off of turnovers - that seemed to be happening an awful lot more earlier in the year. Inferior opposition, perhaps?

  11. #51
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    Feb 2007
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    Arlington, VA
    There is a lot of center hedging out on guys trying to turn the corner at the foul line. I'd love to see some passes to Singler or Thomas slipping the screen to the goal. We just don't get it inside like that very often.

  12. #52
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    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
    I agree there's no snap your fingers, "Voila!" solution here, but am I reading you correctly on the above - are you saying that a current inability to get initial dribble penetration is partly a result of defenses pressing outside to stop 3's? Or are you saying that we're being hampered independently by an inability to penetrate and lack of collapse when we do? If it's the former, I guess I disagree. To the extent they're all up in our face 20 feet out, it should actually make it easier to get by your guy without immediate help arriving, and find some space in the lane. Unless they're playing off whoever has the ball, and faceguarding everyone else beyond the 3-point line (in which case backdoor cutting would be in order), it shouldn't be any harder to get past someone with the dribble than it typically might be. If we're truly not getting initial penetration to the extent we were before, then you're right, we need to put in some different screening scheme or something, or sacrifice a little passing flow to make it a bigger priority for Nelson or Henderson to break down their guy whenever the opportunity presents itself. Personally, I'm seeing more of a problem of getting to within 12 feet but, without four guys collapsing to the ball, not knowing what to do with it. Regardless, I think if they set their minds to springing a particular guy free to penetrate, they can make it happen - they just need to be penetrating with a mindset of taking it to the rack rather than doing so to free up someone outside.

    Good point about not getting points off of turnovers - that seemed to be happening an awful lot more earlier in the year. Inferior opposition, perhaps?
    What I'm referring to happens before there is even a drive. When there's a screen on the perimeter (or even higher out closer to midcourt), hedging happens when the screener's defender stepping out and guarding the man with the ball. This does two things: (1) it prevents an open three, and (2) allows more time for the defender who was screened to recover. If you don't hedge, the guy with the ball has two nice options: (1) shoot an open three or (2) turn the corner and drive to the basket.

    Earlier in the season, teams were either lazy on hedging or lazy on switching. As such, (especially on those high screens) it allowed our ballhandlers to turn the corner and get into the lane more easily. At that point, teams had to choose between collapsing or staying home. Now, teams are doing a better jump of hedging/recovering and/or switching on screens. Since some of our players aren't that great at beating people off the dribble, this strategy has really cut down on our ability to turn the corner off screens and get into the lane. As such, it has cut down on both our ability to take it to the hole AND our ability to generate kickouts for threes.

    As for our trouble creating turnovers, I think it is a combination of playing tougher competition as well as facing teams when they're more focused and they've had more practice against pressure defense.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Washington, D.C.
    Duke needs to get points at the rim. If the penetration to the foul line from the wing and then continuing to attack to the rim is taken away, as it seems to have been more and more in the past weeks, then Singler and Lance have to create those chances.

    There must be inside out play, and a threat to score at the basket for Duke to win. K put in a new two high post thing for the last game that did not seem to work too well. But, Lance did have some easy chances. He will finish them. That needs to continue. If WV takes away the penetration to the foul line, whatever K had them doing to clear the basket area when baseline drives occur needs to be tried again.

    I think Kyle can score down low. I look for 2-4 easy baskets or fouls from him getting excellent low position and a good entry pass.

    If Duke can find a way to make WVa defend near the rim, I am confident.

    If WVa can belly-up to the wing players as they dribble to the point of attack at the foul lane, it will be because the refs are not calling those type of belly fouls. That will make the game a real dog fight. If the refs call those belly fouls, Duke will handle this team easily.

    Belmont defended in this fashion all over the exterior and were even knocking guys down with no call being made; that happens again and the only other real option is penetration via the pass.

    I think that Duke will come out and try to establish an inside passing game early, and that either Kyle or Lance or both will get some chances. I think that WVa will underdefend that part of the game, and that Duke will not come out dancing but will go right after the rim with its bigs.

    BTW, if Zoubek is two feet from the basket and asking for it and don't get it, as happened last night, the guy who don't throw it has to sit. Zoubek has to make that catch and finish, period. If guys are afraid to give him that chance, either they or Zoubs should not be on the court, at least not at the same time.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
    BTW, if Zoubek is two feet from the basket and asking for it and don't get it, as happened last night, the guy who don't throw it has to sit. Zoubek has to make that catch and finish, period. If guys are afraid to give him that chance, either they or Zoubs should not be on the court, at least not at the same time.
    Zoubek and Lance both need to be stronger in the paint. If they can get it going inside, that will free a ton of the pressure on the perimeter so that Scheyer, Nelson, Hendo and the guards can flow more. There were times last night where Belmont double teamed our guards with their big man because they knew that Z wasn't getting the ball.

    And when they do get the ball, go up STRONG! No trying to softly lay it in like no one's around, that's when smaller players block them (which shouldn't happen). Go up strong, lay it in hard or dunk it on someone.

    I also think Singler should stay on the inside a bit more to help with the rebounding and inside presence. He should go outside too, but there should be more of a balance, because I think whoever's guarding him can get really frustrated trying to guard him every which way on the court.

    I think that the bad individual nights we had last night are hopefully out of their system (and the flu-like bug that most of them have can disappear as well). Nelson's not going to have another night with only 2 points. His improved presence will only help us. I think a day of rest will have him feeling much better and ready to step up tomorrow.

    WVU's going to bring it. Their guards are very disciplined, and Joe Alexander is as advertised. Tenacious defense is a must. Cutting down on the turnovers and bad shot selection is also helpful. Finally, have more hunger, fire, passion, will, determination, and all the other intangibles than the other team. We do those things, we should be ahead when the clock hits 00.0 in the 2nd half
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  15. #55
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    Feb 2007
    Zoubek needs to quit guarding people like he's 6'7. He's not. There's no reason for him to reach over his opponent to go for the huge blocked shot. Just put your hands up and take advantage of your height.

  16. #56
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    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    The How we beat X author posted under the handle TMC.
    Congrats! You have 21 hours to find TMC. Good luck!

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Game Plan

    Okay, let's assume the team is relatively healthy. Here's how I'd attack West Virginia.

    Defense
    -I would not switch all screens. We've done it well at times this year, but it has hurt us lately. And West Virginia is excellent at exploiting mismatches by throwing Alexander on the block. I do not want to see us switch and repeatedly force Paulus to cover him.
    -Speaking of Alexander, he's an excellent player. I'd actually open with Lance on him, with Singler on Smalligan, Paulus on Nichols, Nelson on Ruoff and Henderson on Butler. I think Singler will end up covering him, but I'd rather let Lance -- who is a versatile defender -- take the first crack at him and let Singler be a help defender (since Smalligan is not a scorer). Alexander is an extremely versatile scorer. I'd double him with a big when he posts, and be ready with to help off Smalligan when he puts it on the deck. Also, if McClure is healthy, he is well suited to guard Alexander for a stretch.
    -As long as Smalligan is in the game, I'd trap Nichols early (like we've done against Singletary and Rice) to try to get the ball out of his hands. Singler or Thomas should be able to rotate back to Smalligan in time to make this effective. Nichols is their playmaker.
    -Make Ruoff put the ball on the deck. Scheyer should be an excellent guy to cover him.
    -Pressure the heck out of the ball early. If it's not effective, pull it back. I know WVA doesn't turn it over much, but I want to force their secondary and tertiary ball-handlers to have to initiate the offense.

    Offense
    -Get the ball to Singler in the post. This has been a common refrain of mine, but I believe in it so strongly. He needs to make Alexander work, and hopefully get him in foul trouble. I want to see Singler getting to the FT line. If Kyle gets some stuff going inside 10 feet, that will open up a bunch of other options for other guys. Duke actually seemed to want to do this early against Belmont, but foul trouble/strange situations took us out of this situation.
    -Bring back the weave early in the shot clock. K put this in last year purely to get a little more motion in the offense. Last night, particularly in the last five minutes, we had a ton of trouble initiating our sets. We literally couldn't even feed the ball into the elbow. Let's get the guys moving a little bit.
    -I'd love to get out and run, but that's predicated on forcing turnovers and grabbing long rebounds.
    -More side pick and rolls, less one-on-one. I think this will help Markie turn the corner easier, as he excelled in these situations last year. I love watching Singler slip the screen, rather than holding and popping. We really need to attack the rim early and see if we can get to the FT line. WVA isn't deep and they have a couple of key players who can't afford to get in foul trouble.
    -After Paulus dishes to the wing, run him to the corner. This serves two purposes: 1) It puts our best shooter in the spot designed to keep help defenders from collapsing on our drives. That's part of the design of the Phoenix offense (which we're not really running that much). 2) It lets Henderson, Nelson and particularly Scheyer make plays up top. I'd attack whomever Ruoff is guarding. Make him move laterally. I think Henderson and Scheyer, in particular, should be able to get to the foul line off dribble drives against Ruoff.
    -I agree with Greybeard that I'd get Lance a couple of touches early. Let's see what he's got. And when Zoubek in, run him to the elbow, and let Kyle cut behind him. That's effective. Another nice wrinkle was posting up Henderson last night, but I don't think that will be as effective against WVU's bigger wing players.
    -Finally -- and I can't believe I'm going to say this -- dust off Taylor King. I've tried to calm down some of his biggest fans by mentioning some of his shortcomings, and clearly we'll sacrifice some defense when he's out there. But he deserves a heat-check -- an extended 4-5 minute stretch in the first half. We've seen that maybe more than anyone else, he can light a spark under the team with a couple of threes. We need a lift right now. It's worth an early look, given the way others have been struggling from downtown. And I'd do it early -- before anyone else's shooting struggles have a chance to rub off. Run your offense and kick to him in the corner.

    Anyway, WVA won't really play a lineup much bigger than ours for the most part. The matchups are pretty good. Play hard, play smart and play together. Let's go Duke!

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    I don't like that the list of teams to which WVa has lost reads like the AP Top Ten.
    Might as well add ourselves to that list, no?

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Law Talking Guy View Post
    Agreed, and I hope that some folks who will be at Verizon on Saturday will read this. There will be a whole hell of a lot of WVA fans there for our game (as there were tonight), and we need to at least try to match them in intensity and enthusiasm
    seriously please cheer and loud - i could hardly hear anyone rooting for duke.

  20. #60
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    Feb 2007
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    Asheville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkD83 View Post
    Let me take a stab at some analytical things to do better.

    Offense:
    Spacing and movement.
    We are also sending too many "telegraphed" passes. This is also part of movement. We are trying to establish Lance and Brian in the post but often times they are both standing in one place for awhile. By the time they get the ball a weak side defender knows they are going to get it. If they are going to get the ball in the post they need to flash acorss the lane and if they don't get the ball they need to move and flash across again.
    I think this is especially true. Anyone else think K might do some zone tomorrow?

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