ACCT Final

[Troublemaker]

Also, UNC continues to play great ball when they go small with Green at the 4 (although he just fouled out).

[freedevil]

I strongly dislike Carolina. Just wanted to share that with you all. And I had to counteract Troublemaker's compliments of UNC.

[Chard]

Don't tell me you really expected otherwise. This is UNC we are talking about. King of the "gimmes". There is no team in the history of college basketball that has worked less to have so much. Not even a close second. Everyone either lays down for them from the start or just plain screws up at the end of game and gives it away.

Yes, I did expect Clemson to play better. The first two games indicated that they were on a hot streak. Today, they aren't hitting the same shot and are shooting worse at the stripe.

Plus, there is the whole beating a team three times in a season thing.

[Troublemaker]

Strongly dislike? I effing LOATHE these effers. But credit where due and all that.

[_Gary]

Yes, I did expect Clemson to play better. The first two games indicated that they were on a hot streak. Today, they aren't hitting the same shot and are shooting worse at the stripe.

Plus, there is the whole beating a team three times in a season thing.

I understand your thinking. And it would be right on if we were talking about any other team. But we are talking about UNC. People think I'm joking about them being given championships (ACC & NCAA) but I'm not. They truly are the "luckiest" team I've ever seen in my life. I'm not saying they aren't legitimately great this year. They are. But I've also never seen a team that has benefited more from other teams laying down or making stupid unforced errors at the end of games. Case in point: Nice to see Mayes brick two free throws at the end of this ACCT game when he couldn't miss yesterday against Duke. It is truly uncanny how teams play up to Duke and down to UNC.

[FerryFor50]

I understand your thinking. And it would be right on if we were talking about any other team. But we are talking about UNC. People think I'm joking about them being given championships (ACC & NCAA) but I'm not. They truly are the "luckiest" team I've ever seen in my life. I'm not saying they aren't legitimately great this year. They are. But I've also never seen a team that has benefited more from other teams laying down or making stupid unforced errors at the end of games.

Like Chris Webber calling a timeout when he had none?

[_Gary]

Like Chris Webber calling a timeout when he had none?

Exactly. Or how about Brown (I think it was him) throwing it right to Worthy!

[Chard]

I understand your thinking. And it would be right on if we were talking about any other team. But we are talking about UNC. People think I'm joking about them being given championships (ACC & NCAA) but I'm not. They truly are the "luckiest" team I've ever seen in my life. I'm not saying they aren't legitimately great this year. They are. But I've also never seen a team that has benefited more from other teams laying down or making stupid unforced errors at the end of games. Case in point: Nice to see Mayes brick two free throws at the end of this ACCT game when he couldn't miss yesterday against Duke. It is truly uncanny how teams play up to Duke and down to UNC.

I understand what you are saying. I think we are saying the same thing in a way. Clemson saw Duke and played lights out. Clemson saw UNC and played tenatively. They didn't hit the shots they were hitting yesterday. UNC did do what they had to in order to beat Clemson so lets not take that away from them. Instead of pulling up for a silly 3 or turning over the ball after beating the Clemson press, UNC took it to the hoop.

This weekend keeps getting worse. All we need to have happen now is for Duke to get sent out west.

[_Gary]

I understand what you are saying. I think we are saying the same thing in a way. Clemson saw Duke and played lights out. Clemson saw UNC and played tenatively.

Exactly! I'm so tired of hearing a commentator tell us that "so and so" team isn't scared of the name on the front of the jersey when they are playing Duke. What the heck! Teams haven't been intimidated by Duke in a long, long time. Probably not since 1994, and certainly not since 2001. No one is going to tell me that UNC takes the same hits we do. It's not even close. Duke takes opposing teams best shots like no one else in the nation.

[sandinmyshoes]

In a game of spurts, UNC just had more of them. We can whine about Clemson not shooting as well from the free throw line as they did against us, but UNC didn't shoot from the line as well as they usually do. I would imagine that some of that for both teams could have been because of the energy drain from what it takes to get into the championship game of a tourney.

[Coballs]

I was definitely much happier when we were beating carolina 15 out 17 games.

[ClosetHurleyFan]

Don't tell me you really expected otherwise. This is UNC we are talking about. King of the "gimmes". There is no team in the history of college basketball that has worked less to have so much. Not even a close second. Everyone either lays down for them from the start or just plain screws up at the end of game and gives it away.

Are you serious? Cant possibly be because Carolina, now that Copeland and Graves are getting consistent minutes, goes legitimate 10 deep, are in better shape than most teams, play with poise late in close games as they have all year, and are turning into a good defensive team? Cant be because they have 2 legitimate starters at point guard now, that Green is playing amazing floor games....nah, couldnt possibly be due to that. When Clemson took the lead from 13 to 5 in about 30 seconds, guess that was a gimme? Is it possibly that Carolina legitimately controlled the last 5 minutes of this game against a very good and physical basketball team?

Please....

[_Gary]

Are you serious? Cant possibly be because Carolina, now that Copeland and Graves are getting consistent minutes, goes legitimate 10 deep, are in better shape than most teams, play with poise late in close games as they have all year, and are turning into a good defensive team? Cant be because they have 2 legitimate starters at point guard now, that Green is playing amazing floor games....nah, couldnt possibly be due to that. When Clemson took the lead from 13 to 5 in about 30 seconds, guess that was a gimme? Is it possibly that Carolina legitimately controlled the last 5 minutes of this game against a very good and physical basketball team?

Please....

Go ahead and crow, you have every right. It just prepares me for what I'll have to listen to for the next several days from my Tar Baby friend.

I did give this current Heel team credit. But I stand by my assertion that their overall history is one where teams (especially in the ACC) lay down/play down to them. And yeah, they were helped to two national titles by the opposing team in the final seconds of two very close games. That's just the facts.

[calltheobvious]

Go ahead and crow, you have every right. It just prepares me for what I'll have to listen to for the next several days from my Tar Baby friend.

I did give this current Heel team credit. But I stand by my assertion that their overall history is one where teams (especially in the ACC) lay down/play down to them. And yeah, they were helped to two national titles by the opposing team in the final seconds of two very close games. That's just the facts.

Do you really think there's anything non-random going on here? My guess is that Duke's opponents have done similar things with about the same frequency over the years, but as Duke fans we're likely to perceive such events as "Duke making plays" rather than "the opponents rolling over." Not trying to be contentious; I'm willing to be persuaded that there's something interesting going on here.

[Brian12215]

Exactly. Or how about Brown (I think it was him) throwing it right to Worthy!

Or Illinois missing like 40 threes?

[_Gary]

Or Illinois missing like 40 threes?

True. I was willing to give UNC credit for at least one of them, but you've persuaded me to rethink that one as well. Let's add it to the list.

[AnimalFriendly]

"But I stand by my assertion that their overall history is one where teams (especially in the ACC) lay down/play down to them."

You must be really young to make a statement like that. For your sake, I sure hope so.

As for being "helped" to national titles, re: the 2003 title, the real facts are that 1. Webber got away with perhaps the most egregious travel in NCAA tournament history - nobody was even anywhere near him; 2. Carolina deserved at least some, if not most, of the credit for forcing him to make the mental error that he did with the nonexistant T.O. - go back & look at their defense on the play - enough said; 3. the only player for Michigan who had hit 3 pointers reliably during that game was, in fact, on the bench when Webber called the T.O. and 4. Michigan was already DOWN two points when the T.O. was called.