A question for the hoops gurus on Hansbrough and traveling

[dyedwab]

So here's what I'm trying to understand. We comment all the time about Tyler Hansbrough seems to travel on many of his moves to the hoop, yet rarely gets called for it.

We can't be the only people who have noticed this. Maybe it presumes too much, but I assume that other ACC coaches and ACC officials notice that too. I mean its been three years.

So, what is Hansbrough doing that makes it look like he's getting away with traveling. More specifically, if he is taking steps on his move, how is he camouflaging it so that isn't being called? And if he's not traveling, why does it look like he is?

Let's exclude the idea that the refs show specific favoritism here, and argue that Hansbrough is doing SOMETHING that makes his move different.

Thoughts?

[greybeard]

Here are some thoughts

1. H delivers the ball to the basket from a diversity of unusual places, which greatly expands his ability to deliver it from places that the defender is not. Think Kevin McKale here. Okay, you are too young. An example: with his chest in the other guys, he will reach back and out with a bent right arm and use what might look like a throwing motion to score the ball. It covers a lot of ground (he is extremely wide through the shoulder area) and he can modulate the distance from his body if the defender reaches to react. He thus is able to draw slapping fouls and then continue with a very repeatable and reliable delivery. There are other such deliveries.

2. Everyone assumes that you have to be there first. Like me, H figured out at an early age that you just need to be there at a different time. Defenders can only move as fast as the offensive player; does them no good to be able to move faster. Then, a change of pace, quickness if you will (which Hansbrough is exceptional at), favors H greatly. He creates a gait in the defender and then, uses his footwork to catch the defender between steps to change direction and pace; no matter how much a better "athlete" the defender might be, his momentum must settle first before he can react. Too late, sorry. Then, he reacts with an explosive burst, H lets him pass by, and voila, he has a clear look. Being there at a different time, is even better than being their first because being their first makes you subject to swats out of the air; H has the guy past him when he shoots; no opportunity for recovery then.

More later, but these two are undervalued today. Think a big strong Earl Monroe, not an MJ, or Kobe, or Labron.

[EarlJam]

I don't buy the argument that he gets by with travelling so much. At times? Of course...as do many other players.

Hansbrough drives to the basket a lot and in those drives, he often takes big steps through the lane. This often makes it look like travelling when it's really not. My friends used to accuse Laettner of the same thing.

Almost any time a player takes two long steps on a drive opposing fans will start screaming "travel," because of the distance travelled and the awkwardness of it. But it's not a travel.

Now, on that slam against Western Carolina's 10' 9" big man, yes, I think he travelled, but for the most part, I don't agree with the accusation.

-EarlJam

[DoubleDuke Dad]

I don't buy the argument that he gets by with travelling so much. At times? Of course...as do many other players.

Hansbrough drives to the basket a lot and in those drives, he often takes big steps through the lane. This often makes it look like travelling when it's really not. My friends used to accuse Laettner of the same thing.

Almost any time a player takes two long steps on a drive opposing fans will start screaming "travel," because of the distance travelled and the awkwardness of it. But it's not a travel.

Now, on that slam against Western Carolina's 10' 9" big man, yes, I think he travelled, but for the most part, I don't agree with the accusation.

-EarlJam

It is not so much on his drives where he appears that he walks; rather it is when he receives the ball under the basket and is double-teamed. Many times he appears to do a dance step or two where he moves both feet before he attempts his shot. The referee always seems to call a foul on one of the defenders rather than a walk on Hanbrough.

[feldspar]

Travel is the hardest officiating call in basketball. I'm willing to bet that at least half of the moves you see Hansblahblah make are actually not travels, they just look like them.

A couple of games ago in SnrubChat, everyone was ooohing and aaaahing because it looked like Kyle Singer got away with a huge travel. In rewinding the play, it was clear he didn't.

We just miss stuff. The fans, the officials. We all miss stuff. There's no conspiracy going on. The travel is just really hard to see sometimes, and other times it looks like a travel (see: Georgetown/Vanderbilt 2007 NCAA Tournament), but it's not.

[banneheim]

Ok, I can see him not traveling. But what about the offensive charge? He puts his head down, jumps into the D-player. I thought the D-players has the right to be upright and entitled to that space. I can see if the defensive player is not set, but I see him get alot of 3 pt plays when he initiates the contact.

Please help me understand this....Shelden was called for it.

[elvis14]

Man, don't even get me started on Hansfoul. The traveling isn't what bothers me what bothers me is the protection he gets. A friend of mine from SC called me during the second Clemson Tar Heel game. With 11 seconds left in the first half Hansluvrefs was called for his first foul of the game and as usual he was allowed to play physical. I just laughed and told him that I was aware of the TH rules. The Clemson games were the worst of the bunch. In the first Clemson game, Booker was fouled by Hanshacker and it was not called and on the next trip down the floor Hansprotected charges Booker and they call Booker for his 5th. He was dominating Hansdatesrefs before he fouled out. In the Duke game I counted 15 calls that could have gone against Hans9F that didn't. Some were more blatant than others but 15 is a big number. I think I could type for another 20 minutes and not fully describe my disgust with the way he is protected. Oh and he travels a lot too!

[captmojo]

Did the rules change? Is it not a violation to allow the second step to contact the floor before ridding oneself of the ball? That's always been my knowledge of the rule. But I also remember when players were not allowed to dribble after one drop of the ball to the floor.

In the game at chapel hole this year, Billy Packer calling a slo-mo replay mentioned Beaker's "patented spin move". I counted four steps.

[JStuart]

I had a friend look up the stats, and we can't find but one instance, in his freshman year, where he fouled out of a game; may have been @ FSU.
Can't believe that any other top scorer of any ACC team has fouled out as few times as he has. Gminski was good at not fouling out, but his game was more finesse than Hans9f (my fave variation on spelling).

[Chard]

Now, on that slam against Western Carolina's 10' 9" big man, yes, I think he travelled, but for the most part, I don't agree with the accusation.

-EarlJam

I think you mean Kenny George from UNCA who is listed at 7-7, right?

By the way, UNCA is playing for the Big South Conference Title against who? Winthrop, a 20-11 squad with wins against ACC members Georgia Tech and Miami. UNCA is 2-0 against Winthrop this season.

[feldspar]

Did the rules change? Is it not a violation to allow the second step to contact the floor before ridding oneself of the ball?

The definition of a travel is pretty simple. Once you establish a pivot foot, you can lift that pivot foot but cannot return it to the floor before releasing the ball.

[SCDUKEFAN]

My biggest issue with Hanstravel is not the traveling, surprisingly, but that's one big issue, is the fact that so many times when he shoots he jumps into the defender, breaking the defenders plain of verticality. The results more times than not is a foul call on the defender. As to how he gets away with, I wish I knew...

[DukeFanInTerpLand]

He's gets away with it because he is extremely adept at making it look like there was tons of contact. He'll jump into the guy, create some minimal contact, double-pump, scream, shoot, foul. It's like watching an accident about to happen, you just want to yell to the defender to give him a little space.

FWIW, Duke did pretty well avoiding these "fouls" in the first game.

[DoubleDuke Dad]

My biggest issue with Hanstravel is not the traveling, surprisingly, but that's one big issue, is the fact that so many times when he shoots he jumps into the defender, breaking the defenders plain of verticality. The results more times than not is a foul call on the defender. As to how he gets away with, I wish I knew...

He is truly an amazing basketball player. When he is under the basket he knocks over 280 lb. centers who of course get called for the foul. However when he jumps in front of a 6ft guard who weights 180 lbs he always goes sprawling and a charge get called.

[Zeb]

The definition of a travel is pretty simple. Once you establish a pivot foot, you can lift that pivot foot but cannot return it to the floor before releasing the ball.

This definition is a little too simple. Imagine this scenario: I establish my pivot foot, hold the ball, then begin hopping on my non pivot foot. My pivot foot never returns to the floor, but after the second hop, I have travelled.

[rsvman]

Whenever he shoots a shot that has a chance of missing, he flails his arms in the air, thus garnering the foul call on the defender. He's a great free-throw shooter, so more often than not he converts both free throws.

Bottom line is that once he gets the ball on the blocks with his back to the basket he's very likely to score. The best way to defend against this is to make it hard for him to get the ball on the blocks.

In the first game, he spent a lot of time outside of the three-point line. That's exactly where we want him to hang out.

[captmojo]

This definition is a little too simple. Imagine this scenario: I establish my pivot foot, hold the ball, then begin hopping on my non pivot foot. My pivot foot never returns to the floor, but after the second hop, I have travelled.

There is also the situation where the pivot foot never leaves the floor but the foot's pivot point changes from toe to heel, or vice-versa, in a rocking motion. It's the player's advancement of the point that is the issue.

So long as I can remember, the player with possession is allowed only one step. The contact of the second foot with the floor, before giving up possession by either shooting or passing, is in violation.

[fogey]

Man, don't even get me started on Hansfoul. The traveling isn't what bothers me what bothers me is the protection he gets. A friend of mine from SC called me during the second Clemson Tar Heel game. With 11 seconds left in the first half Hansluvrefs was called for his first foul of the game and as usual he was allowed to play physical. I just laughed and told him that I was aware of the TH rules. The Clemson games were the worst of the bunch. In the first Clemson game, Booker was fouled by Hanshacker and it was not called and on the next trip down the floor Hansprotected charges Booker and they call Booker for his 5th. He was dominating Hansdatesrefs before he fouled out. In the Duke game I counted 15 calls that could have gone against Hans9F that didn't. Some were more blatant than others but 15 is a big number. I think I could type for another 20 minutes and not fully describe my disgust with the way he is protected. Oh and he travels a lot too!

Elvis, you probably could type away. But it doesn't matter. Slow motion video, however, could help.
For those truly passionate about the "TH rules", I would urge the editing of Tar Heel video to display an assortment of the outrage, post a link to it, and hope that ACC refs everywhere are astute enough to read this board!

[captmojo]

Elvis, you probably could type away. But it doesn't matter. Slow motion video, however, could help.
For those truly passionate about the "TH rules", I would urge the editing of Tar Heel video to display an assortment of the outrage, post a link to it, and hope that ACC refs everywhere are astute enough to read this board!

Well played!

[Devilsfan]

Ty doesn't travel according to most NBA enthusiast. Atleast not any more than most bigs in the league taking it to the hoop.