Duke WBB v UNC-Chapel Hill

[duke98]

Yeah. Our new coach hasn't done anything in terms of on-court results to make me like her as a replacement for Gail. The bad feelings we keep hearing about from behind the scenes and practices is strike two. The fact that she has repeatedly thrown her own players under the bus in public makes it pretty hard for me to root for our HC, which has been almost as frustrating as the on-court disappointments this season.

As others have said, I'm still rooting very hard for the team, and I'd love to see us make a great FF run, but the more I see of our new coach, the more I appriciate what a talent, and a class act, Gail was.

I absolutely disagree with the previous poster's characterization of this as an "excellent post". It compares apples to oranges (14 years under Gail to one year under Coach P) and relies on rumors of dissent between the coach and players to prove its point. I've got news for you: I heard more of these rumors over the years of Gail's tenure than I care to repeat. I choose not to repeat them because they're just that: rumors.

I also disagree with the suggestion that Coach P has "thrown her players under the bus" for underperforming. Call me old-fashioned, but I think we need a little personal responsibility here. It's the coach's job to scout, plan, recruit, adapt and analyze in-game, and yes, in some ways, to motivate. But I think it's important to consider the possibility that this team of 18-21 year old women is reacting poorly to the change in leadership, and that they should bear some of the responsibility themselves. I'm not criticizing them for being upset by the change, but it's happened. I think they need to suck it up, motivate themselves if they have to, and do honor to that four-letter name on their uniforms.

Finally, I think that leaving a school in the lurch after they gave you the opportunity to establish yourself and your career is about the least classy thing that one can do. Just MHO.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Yeah. Our new coach hasn't done anything in terms of on-court results to make me like her as a replacement for Gail. The bad feelings we keep hearing about from behind the scenes and practices is strike two. The fact that she has repeatedly thrown her own players under the bus in public makes it pretty hard for me to root for our HC, which has been almost as frustrating as the on-court disappointments this season.

As others have said, I'm still rooting very hard for the team, and I'd love to see us make a great FF run, but the more I see of our new coach, the more I appriciate what a talent, and a class act, Gail was.

I would have agreed with the comments about G until her exit last year, not just metaphorically, but physically. I will never shake that image of her walking off the sidelines after their loss last year. It was totally classless.

[GrayHare]

It's the coach's job to scout, plan, recruit, adapt and analyze in-game, and yes, in some ways, to motivate.

Exactly so! When should we expect her to begin?

[diablesseblu]

My experience as the parent of daughters, and as a former coach, prompt me to have very strong opinions of what "works" with them.

Yes, our athletes bear a responsibility to work hard and try their best. And I'm certain that Coach G could be tough on them and that there are stories to tell about her efforts to motivate them.

However, a coach talking about/denigrating the abilities of her athletes to others is simply unacceptable. A young woman and her family who choose that approach can simply play for Geno.

It is not the approach I want to see affirmed by anyone in the Duke athletic department. Have been a Duke fan for sixty years but would not my daughter to remain on the team if, in fact, there has been sea change in the way she's treated.

One's college years are too important to one's emotional and intellectual development to stay in a toxic situation out of a sense of obligation. Yes, they have a responsibility ... as does Duke.

[merry]

I absolutely disagree with the previous poster's characterization of this as an "excellent post". It compares apples to oranges (14 years under Gail to one year under Coach P) and relies on rumors of dissent between the coach and players to prove its point. I've got news for you: I heard more of these rumors over the years of Gail's tenure than I care to repeat. I choose not to repeat them because they're just that: rumors.

I also disagree with the suggestion that Coach P has "thrown her players under the bus" for underperforming. Call me old-fashioned, but I think we need a little personal responsibility here. It's the coach's job to scout, plan, recruit, adapt and analyze in-game, and yes, in some ways, to motivate. But I think it's important to consider the possibility that this team of 18-21 year old women is reacting poorly to the change in leadership, and that they should bear some of the responsibility themselves. I'm not criticizing them for being upset by the change, but it's happened. I think they need to suck it up, motivate themselves if they have to, and do honor to that four-letter name on their uniforms.

Finally, I think that leaving a school in the lurch after they gave you the opportunity to establish yourself and your career is about the least classy thing that one can do. Just MHO.

It's a long time ago now but it's my understanding that people (players etc.) were pretty miserable when Gail first arrived as the new coach as well. Change is not always easy and my guess is this transition is not the toughest thing these women will ever go through. I agree it would be nice to see them pull themselves together. I think they tried to do that, tried to bond as a team and play for each other and for Duke but for whatever reason that attitude hasn't really produced consistent performances.

As for your last comment, I can't blame Gail for leaving Duke. I wished she hadn't done it but I can't see where she did anything wrong in leaving for Texas. She was here for 14 years and did more than establish herself, she established Duke as a national power and kept us there for the better part of a decade. It's not like she made it to one final four then bolted for greener pastures.

[Devilsfan]

It's hard to believe these rumored character flaws suddenly appeared.

[Duvall]

It's hard to believe these rumored character flaws suddenly appeared.

It's not hard to believe that Duke fans have more informal conversations with Duke players and parents than they do with Michigan State players and parents.

[diablesseblu]

It's not hard to believe that Duke fans have more informal conversations with Duke players and parents than they do with Michigan State players and parents.

Absolutely true. However, her husband's felony arrest in March 2007 for assault on a airport police officer (while traveling with JMP) would have caused me to exercise extraordinary due diligence in her hire.

My goodness...the fellow threatened the officer with a trash can, screamed obscenities and bit the fellow. Shouldn't that have prompted an unusual amount of care with this hire?

Also, MSU fans were not happy with how the coach handled this situation. Given Duke's recent problems with law enforcement, this would have been a dealbreaker for me from the outset.

[merry]

Absolutely true. However, her husband's felony arrest in March 2007 for assault on a airport police officer (while traveling with JMP) would have caused me to exercise extraordinary due diligence in her hire.

My goodness...the fellow threatened the officer with a trash can, screamed obscenities and bit the fellow. Shouldn't that have prompted an unusual amount of care with this hire?

Also, MSU fans were not happy with how the coach handled this situation. Given Duke's recent problems with law enforcement, this would have been a dealbreaker for me from the outset.

And yet according to her he's interviewing for Econ positions at both Duke and UNC right now.

[diablesseblu]

And yet according to her he's interviewing for Econ positions at both Duke and UNC right now.

Then, there must be a dearth of Econ profs on the horizon. This is not like the Amakers.

McCallie's hubby was a "visiting" prof at MSU. Among her fans on the MSU boards who had him for class......no positive comments.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

I absolutely disagree with the previous poster's characterization of this as an "excellent post". It compares apples to oranges (14 years under Gail to one year under Coach P) and relies on rumors of dissent between the coach and players to prove its point.

Hmm, since the "point" of the post was the subjective statement that I'm frustrated, I'm not sure how I would go about "proving" it. The struggles of this team loaded with an obscene number of All-Americans has been very disappointing to me. Not just the W-L record, but the in-game performance have been far below almost any of the recent seasons where Gail has had comparable talent. If you are happy with this season, great for you. Being happy always beats being not happy.

I've got news for you: I heard more of these rumors over the years of Gail's tenure than I care to repeat. I choose not to repeat them because they're just that: rumors.

Gail has had a line of great players with glowing things to say about her interaction with players. P brings an established history of her and her husband (who, imo has no business being involved with the team in the first place) not generating that type of feeling. I agree that the rumors in isolation are not very meaningful, but since the entire team seems to be playing in a funk they concern me. Again, if you'd rather give P the benefit of the doubt that's your right. For me, G earned that benefit with years of great performance and P hasn't yet. I'm hoping she will.

I also disagree with the suggestion that Coach P has "thrown her players under the bus" for underperforming. Call me old-fashioned, but I think we need a little personal responsibility here. It's the coach's job to scout, plan, recruit, adapt and analyze in-game, and yes, in some ways, to motivate. But I think it's important to consider the possibility that this team of 18-21 year old women is reacting poorly to the change in leadership, and that they should bear some of the responsibility themselves. I'm not criticizing them for being upset by the change, but it's happened. I think they need to suck it up, motivate themselves if they have to, and do honor to that four-letter name on their uniforms.

I think this is where we really disagree. I NEVER want to see the Gary Williams-style "my players let me down" attitude from a Duke coach. When K is critical of the team he'll generally say something like "we really struggled with motivation" (i.e. the team as a whole, including K) or "I failed to get the kids ready to play." Unless you have some evidence that our players are just a bunch of surly McCantsesque malcontents, I think the onus has to be on the coach to prepare the team. The fact that P didn't is bad enough. The fact that she's dodging responsibility by blaming her players is REALLY offputting to me.

Finally, I think that leaving a school in the lurch after they gave you the opportunity to establish yourself and your career is about the least classy thing that one can do. Just MHO.

We may never know why Gail isn't coaching at Duke. Her own changing personal situation undoubtedly played a part. I think the (shameful) discomfort some in the Duke community felt with her new lifestyle did as well. I strenuously disagree with your attempt to cast Gail as the villain in this situation. Gail built this program from a middle-of-the-pack afterthought on campus to a national power that could fill up Cameron for big games. She didn't take a bunch of players with her, she didn't leave mid-season, and she certainly didn't leave the cupboard bare. If this program is in a "lurch" (and I'm increasingly afraid that it is) it sure isn't Gail's fault.

[throatybeard]

Unless she was tag-teaming, I fail to see what her husband getting into it with a cop has to do with her. If every idiotic thing I've ever done were pinned on my wife, she'd look a lot more irresponsible than she does.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

Unless she was tag-teaming, I fail to see what her husband getting into it with a cop has to do with her. If every idiotic thing I've ever done were pinned on my wife, she'd look a lot more irresponsible than she does.

Ditto for me big time.

I thought that her husband had also had some interaction with players/former players that involved semi-abusive behavior (yelling, profanity, etc). If I'm incorrect about that, I'll gladly rescind that part of my comments.

[KandG]

Finally, I think that leaving a school in the lurch after they gave you the opportunity to establish yourself and your career is about the least classy thing that one can do. Just MHO.

Stupid and clueless to call this "classless". She didn't owe the school anything other than the opportunity to listen to their offer. If she felt that the way she was negotiated with wasn't to her liking, then so be it. If the school felt she wasn't worth some of the things she was asking for, that was the school's right. But she didn't leave Duke "in the lurch" -- unless you believe the administration and Joe Alleva bear no responsibility for her departure. It was a mutual arrangement that could definitely have been handled better, but to pin it completely on one side or the other is ridiculous -- unless you're affiliated with one of the parties in question, or you're a toadie for McCallie or Alleva and can't deal with having them get any heat.

[DukeDevilDeb]

As sad as it is, last night's loss was incredibly predictable. Duke women have no marquee wins this year. And many of the turnovers appear to be unforced. They simply have no flow, no rhythm. They have started 11 different lineups this year. Perhaps that says it all. I just hope that McCauley will be able to recruit as well as G did.

Let me introduce you to our new women's b-ball coach: Joanne P. McCallie

Seems to me that after nearly a season with her on campus, you probably should know how to spell her name!

[cspan37421]

Her own changing personal situation undoubtedly played a part. I think the (shameful) discomfort some in the Duke community felt with her new lifestyle did as well.

Please elaborate ... what new lifestyle? Something more than trading in Duke Blue for burnt orange?

[diablesseblu]

Unless she was tag-teaming, I fail to see what her husband getting into it with a cop has to do with her. If every idiotic thing I've ever done were pinned on my wife, she'd look a lot more irresponsible than she does.

I would normally agree with this position. However, McCallie was traveling with his wife. Given her high profile position at MSU, I fault them both for this having escalated to the point of assault/arrest.

Can you imagine if Mr. Hatchell or Mrs. K pulled this stunt? Simple answer...they wouldn't.

[DukeDevilDeb]

I absolutely disagree with the previous poster's characterization of this as an "excellent post". It compares apples to oranges (14 years under Gail to one year under Coach P) and relies on rumors of dissent between the coach and players to prove its point. I've got news for you: I heard more of these rumors over the years of Gail's tenure than I care to repeat. I choose not to repeat them because they're just that: rumors.

I also disagree with the suggestion that Coach P has "thrown her players under the bus" for underperforming. Call me old-fashioned, but I think we need a little personal responsibility here. It's the coach's job to scout, plan, recruit, adapt and analyze in-game, and yes, in some ways, to motivate. But I think it's important to consider the possibility that this team of 18-21 year old women is reacting poorly to the change in leadership, and that they should bear some of the responsibility themselves. I'm not criticizing them for being upset by the change, but it's happened. I think they need to suck it up, motivate themselves if they have to, and do honor to that four-letter name on their uniforms.

Finally, I think that leaving a school in the lurch after they gave you the opportunity to establish yourself and your career is about the least classy thing that one can do. Just MHO.

Question for all of you who are banging on Coach P and singing love songs about Coach G... If Coach G were so great, why the h*ll isn't she still here? I have real trouble with your praising a woman who RAN from this program (to Texas, not a Tennessee or Rutgers or Connecticut with established programs) with very little notice at a time when the kids were really down.

I don't know either of them as individuals, but Coach G went VERY FAR DOWN on my list after her race to get out of NC. Convince me that I'm wrong!