How exactly are we ranked behind Carolina

[shadowfax336]

Anybody have a clue?

2 losses each, one to a (at the time) top #10 team
one to an upper-midlevel ACC team

so thats pretty even...
its just too bad there aren't other factors that could be used to break the tie...

ya know like conference standings or HEAD-TO-HEAD play?

[dukerev]

Why would you think that polls make sense?

Or matter?

[FerryFor50]

Anybody have a clue?

2 losses each, one to a (at the time) top #10 team
one to an upper-midlevel ACC team

so thats pretty even...
its just too bad there aren't other factors that could be used to break the tie...

ya know like conference standings or HEAD-TO-HEAD play?

I have 2 reasons for you:

1) UNC is overrated
2) Every sportswriter in America went to UNC

Let's not forget the numerous near-miss, lucky wins for UNC... I know "a win's a win" but come on...

[CDu]

We are ranked behind UNC for the following reasons:

1) We lost recently, Carolina didn't
2) Carolina won emphatically recently, we didn't

Polls are based on a "what have you done for me lately?" concept. Thus, our win over Carolina nearly two weeks ago doesnt' mean as much to voters as the number of losses and our most recent performance.

I have a question for you: why do you care whether we're ranked behind Carolina right now? We'll play them again in a few weeks, which could change things. We may play them again in the ACC tournament, which could change things. And ultimately, none of the polls really matter, since the "true" best teams will be decided in March/April. (quotations around true because I'm irritated by that concept, even if it is the way things work)

[Bluedog]

Polls are historically known for over-valuing the most recent results. Since Duke lost yesterday, and UNC hasn't lost in the past week, it's fresh in people's minds. Doesn't make sense, but always happens.

This is similar to what happened in the football polls when Georgia was ranked ahead of other teams in the second to last week because they hadn't lost in a while. When the pollsters finally realized that their votes actually determine the national championship game in the final week, they actually tried to look at the season as a whole and had teams leapfrog Georgia. (I don't want to argue whether that was justified or not, I'm just saying it's clear that most polls weigh recent results too heavily). And head-to-head was even on the road for us, so if somebody looked at the entire seasons objectively, I don't know how could put UNC ahead. But, alas, polls don't matter so we shouldn't really care.

Edit: CDu beat me to it.

[ugadevil]

This is similar to what happened in the football polls when Georgia was ranked ahead of other teams in the second to last week because they hadn't lost in a while. When the pollsters finally realized that their votes actually determine the national championship game in the final week, they actually tried to look at the season as a whole and had teams leapfrog Georgia. (I don't want to argue whether that was justified or not, I'm just saying it's clear that most polls weigh recent results too heavily).

That is a great example.

[devil84]

Anybody have a clue?

2 losses each, one to a (at the time) top #10 team
one to an upper-midlevel ACC team

so thats pretty even...
its just too bad there aren't other factors that could be used to break the tie...

ya know like conference standings or HEAD-TO-HEAD play?

I personally prefer the giving the target back to those wearing the paler shade of blue. I'm REALLY looking forward to all the UNC fans who will be happy to say, "nyah, nyah, we're ranked higher." I'll say "congratulations," smile sweetly, and look forward to March 8.

[dukestheheat]

Anybody have a clue?

2 losses each, one to a (at the time) top #10 team
one to an upper-midlevel ACC team

so thats pretty even...
its just too bad there aren't other factors that could be used to break the tie...

ya know like conference standings or HEAD-TO-HEAD play?

the ACC race, as we are #1 and they...are NOT.

That national race depends on factors somewhat outside of our control; we control what happens in our conference b/c we play all of the teams, some twice, so that is a proper measuring stick for Duke's performance if you ask me (which you kinda are but i do digress...). So, with what we can control, we are #1; with what we can't really control (ie, we don't play memphis or tennessee regularly), we're fourth right now, probably going to move up some as the year progresses.

Duke threw a duck last night but we'll be back, I'm confident. Word is some of our guys are still walking back along 85 East from the game.

dth.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Well, we got beaten handily with a healthy team, and Carolina beat the snot out of VT with a crippled team. Who looks better in the voter's eyes? They aren't voting based on past performances, they are voting on what they saw this week. Only the guys on selection Sunday care about what happened in the past. Right now, Carolina deserves the higher rank. But that's ok , we'll learn from another loss, and take our spot back March 8th.

[jipops]

Well, for one - unc is the better team. If you were to pick the ACC team most likely to make the final four this year, without bias wouldn't you have to pick unc?

Secondly, who cares? It's a meaningless ranking.

[dukestheheat]

Well, for one - unc is the better team. If you were to pick the ACC team most likely to make the final four this year, without bias wouldn't you have to pick unc?

Secondly, who cares? It's a meaningless ranking.

the cowboy in me is about to come out! Based on our results in playing the Holes that one game this year, Duke is better than the Holes. Excuses don't make it in big time basketball, only in tiddly winks and hand grenades.

dth.

[RPS]

Anybody have a clue?

I suspect that most poll voters do so quickly and while looking at something like a weekly summary (think USA Today) showing the rankings and how the ranked teams did the previous week. The typical voter then moves teams that lost down some and adjusts accordingly. Reputations, recent results and "power conference" memberships are thus overrated and seasonal perspective, overall strength of schedule and fact-based comparisons (e.g., conference standings, head-to-head results) are undervalued. But since (unlike football) these polls are essentially irrelevant, who cares? The ACC regular season title, the ACC Championship and a #1 NCAA seed are all still entirely in our control...

Excuses don't make it in big time basketball, only in tiddly winks and hand grenades.

But close counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, atomic weaponry and (for those old enough to remember) drive-in movies...

[dukestheheat]

I suspect that most poll voters do so quickly and while looking at something like a weekly summary (think USA Today) showing the rankings and how the ranked teams did the previous week. The typical voter then moves teams that lost down some and adjusts accordingly. Reputations, recent results and "power conference" memberships are thus overrated and seasonal perspective, overall strength of schedule and fact-based comparisons (e.g., conference standings, head-to-head results) are undervalued. But since (unlike football) these polls are essentially irrelevant, who cares? The ACC regular season title, the ACC Championship and a #1 NCAA seed are all still entirely in our control...

But close counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, atomic weaponry and (for those old enough to remember) drive-in movies...

how cool is that? close at a drive in movie. just think of it.

dth.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Well, we got beaten handily with a healthy team, and Carolina beat the snot out of VT with a crippled team. Who looks better in the voter's eyes? They aren't voting based on past performances, they are voting on what they saw this week. Only the guys on selection Sunday care about what happened in the past. Right now, Carolina deserves the higher rank. But that's ok , we'll learn from another loss, and take our spot back March 8th.

If you mean that the Duke team was a healthy team while playing Wake last night, I don't know about that... Gerald Henderson's been playing with a wrist problem, Brian Zoubec has been on the court in a couple of games but not for long, Jon Scheyer injures his ankle during the game....

When I saw how flat everyone looked throughout last night's game (players and coaches), my first thought was to wonder if they're coming down with the flu. (According to the CDC's map for most recent report of cases, this year's flu is widespread in most states.)

While the shift in rankings is a bit disappointing, that's just this week's rankings. As for what was going on with our team last night? Was this finally a delayed let down from the Carolina game? The answers to those questions are unknown. The next game is in a couple of days. Time to shift to preparation for Miami.

GO DUKE!

[dukie8]

i still don't understand why people get hung up with the polls. the people voting are extremely clueless and they mean nothing. lunardi still has us as a 1 today with stanford and gtown as the 2 and 3. unfortunately, now the game in cis really matters for the charlotte regional.

[dukegirlinsc]

one of the many reasons i hate polls. it's sometimes nice to be ranked #1, but in all honesty, what does it matter? i agree to the fullest though, i don't see how UNC is ranked ahead of duke...but then i say, once again, i hate polls. lol.

like others have said beforehand, most sports writers are, for the most part, clueless. i wonder how many of them actually watch all of these games?

it all comes down to "what have you done for me lately?" and that, to be quite honest, is ridiculous!

[godukecom]

The rankins have always been, are, and never will be more than a glorified power ranking. in the grand scheme of things, they mean absolutely nothing.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

The rankins have always been, are, and never will be more than a glorified power ranking. in the grand scheme of things, they mean absolutely nothing.

I remember hearing one coach respond to speculation arising regarding the winner of the next game. He said that we can talk all we want to about who's going to win the game, but it's all talk. We play the game to find out who actually does win.

Rankings are speculation and fantasy basketball at best.

[johnb]

The people who vote aren't "clueless," but they do tend to be unable to watch every team play every game. Since I pretty much restrict myself to Duke games and Sports Center, I am routinely impressed by how every other top team seems to score most of its points on amazing dunks and 30-foot three pointers with no time left.

Anyway, we tend to get a big benefit of the doubt when it comes to polls (even our recruits get bumped up in the rankings after they sign with us). And, when it comes to the recent loss thing, we were #2 because our loss to Pitt happened in December while other teams which are probably better than we are had lost more recently. And UNC did come close to losing a couple of games, but when the chips were down, they played great (sadly, I did watch their last 3 games, or at least until they doubled up Virginia Tech, a team which I also can't stand, but not enough to not root for a Carolina loss). And, yeah, Lawson out for a few games is a much bigger hit than Henderson having a sore palm. And if both teams win out (which is unlikely) and we lose to Carolina by a point in quadruple ot and tie for the championship, I'll bet you a nickel that Carolina will be favored in the tourney by the pollsters (and, even more importantly, the gamblers).

Because while I hope we win it all, and we could, our lack of an inside presence is going to make winning 6 in a row unlikely...

[dukie8]

The people who vote aren't "clueless," but they do tend to be unable to watch every team play every game. Since I pretty much restrict myself to Duke games and Sports Center, I am routinely impressed by how every other top team seems to score most of its points on amazing dunks and 30-foot three pointers with no time left.

Anyway, we tend to get a big benefit of the doubt when it comes to polls (even our recruits get bumped up in the rankings after they sign with us). And, when it comes to the recent loss thing, we were #2 because our loss to Pitt happened in December while other teams which are probably better than we are had lost more recently. And UNC did come close to losing a couple of games, but when the chips were down, they played great (sadly, I did watch their last 3 games, or at least until they doubled up Virginia Tech, a team which I also can't stand, but not enough to not root for a Carolina loss). And, yeah, Lawson out for a few games is a much bigger hit than Henderson having a sore palm. And if both teams win out (which is unlikely) and we lose to Carolina by a point in quadruple ot and tie for the championship, I'll bet you a nickel that Carolina will be favored in the tourney by the pollsters (and, even more importantly, the gamblers).

Because while I hope we win it all, and we could, our lack of an inside presence is going to make winning 6 in a row unlikely...

we were #2 because we were the only 1 loss team -- not because the loss was in december. memphis was/is 1 because it is the only 0 loss team.

the voters by and large are completely clueless. the list of idiotic rankings over the years would rival war and peace in length. the fact that you don't watch any games other than duke games doesn't excuse the fact that the poll voters are out to lunch and their rankings usually have very little to with reality. btw, pollsters don't set odds -- that would be vegas and the bookies.