Duke MBB at Wake Forest post-game thread

[dukeENG2003]

i'm guessing it was mechanical error, not operator error. sure, it looks fishy, given the context, but i base my opinion on this...

waiting for the 2nd half to start, before teams even took the court again, the clock ran down 10 seconds to 19:50, and had to be reset. maybe he was just practicing for later, though.

Hmm, didn't see that incident, but I suppose that provides proof in their favor (although they were winning at half, so there was motivation for that incident too).

[Uncle Drew]

The weeping, wailing and teeth-knashing are a bit over the top (in my humble estimation). Wake was better and deserved to win. Next play.

Also, let's more careful to distinguish legitimate concerns from illegitimate ones.

• Dribble penetration was huge. Wake got it consistently; we didn't.
  
• 3-point shooting was off. It happens. But I was concerned that we took too many even after it was clear that we were struggling. I would have preferred trying something else. Easily fixed though.
  
• Ref talk is foolish. With 10 minutes left, FTs were about even; then the rails came off for us. If we want to criticize the silliness of "Duke gets all the calls," we need to practice what we preach.
  
• Like others, I'm concerned about GH's health. I'm also hoping JS's rolled ankle is okay.
  
• Gaudio and Wake were very impressive. If their recruiting class is close to as good as advertised, Wake should become extremely good.
  
• The gold ties to honor Skip were terrific.
  
• Bad shooting. Bad shot selection. Way too many turnovers. And we're still in it late against a very good home team playing great. Not the end of the world. Not even close.

Next play.

RPS, I for one am not blamming the Wake fans, refs or anone other than Duke for the loss last night. If Duke played better, even doing something as simple as their free throws they would have been either in the game at the end or ahead. Wake beat Duke flat out last night. Your points about dribble penetration and Wake was nailing 3's especially early in the game are correct. That's usually Duke's forte, it was really odd to see a team doing to Duke what they usually do to others. The better playing team won last night. I for one am not disputing that at all. I was mostly commenting on how the fans in LJVMC reacted when ANY call went against them. And we all know Duke takes every teams best shot at home or away. I just wonder if some of these teams are able to channel all this energy and spirit against Duke why they can't get pumped to play UNC Charlotte and UGA. It will be intresting to see how up they are for UNC. I can't label this as a "good" loss for Duke against an ACC foe they should have been better prepared up and matched the intensity against. (Like IMO the Pitt loss, if any loss was a good one that would be it.) Still it's not over, the sky isn't in the process of falling and I have loved watching this team play. Next play, next game, let's just hope Duke learns from their mistakes and what ailments a few Duke players may or may not be sufferingfrom they can get over quickly.

[Bluedog]

Thanks for confirming my suspicions, noted above. Scheyer rolled his ankle yesterday, so I'm sure that the limp is the result of that. If they let him play through it, however, I doubt that it's very serious.

Ah, sorry for repeating what you had already said! I didn't get a chance to read the entire 11-page thread. And thanks for the response.

[Ben63]

This will be my 38th and final post here. Too much negativity. This is not 1991, 1992, or 2001. This is an over-achieving group of kids who have played a remarkable season thus far, and all most of you can do is start threads about whether we are really that good, or whether we rely on the 3 too much. Some of us have been following Duke ball since before many of you were born, and are delighted with this team's effort, win or lose. Thanks for the effort to teach me about the length of college basketball games, and I was shocked to learn that they don't have to retrieve the ball from the peach baskets anymore. Please just enjoy the magnificent effort these boys are putting forward for your enjoyment, and stop harping on things that, frankly, most of you don't know jack about.

Regards-
Section 8

Too much negativity?? WTF, we lost, losing is a negative thing. Losing to an inferior conference opponent sucks. Of course we are gonna be negative.

[yancem]

I don't know. We had 3 losses in a row before that game. We were terrible the whole second half of the season last year. Maybe we have just been overachieving this whole year, but if not I think this was definitely our worst game in several years. Our starting lineup fouled out, Coach K wore a gold tie and didn't show any emotion the whole night, and only Nolan Smith looked like he wanted to win.

Yeah, what was the deal with the yellow tie? I thought that it was very weird to wear a tie with the opposing teams colors. Very weird.

[RPS]

If Duke played better, even doing something as simple as their free throws they would have been either in the game at the end or ahead.

FT shooting is another key point and one I should have mentioned.

Wake beat Duke flat out last night.

We agree.

I was mostly commenting on how the fans in LJVMC reacted when ANY call went against them.

How do you think opposing fans see things when they visit CIS?

And we all know Duke takes every teams best shot at home or away. I just wonder if some of these teams are able to channel all this energy and spirit against Duke why they can't get pumped to play UNC Charlotte and UGA.

When I was in college, I didn't give my best effort in every class, on every test, in every intermural game. I was a college kid. Thankfully, I wasn't on TV a lot.

It will be intresting to see how up they are for UNC.

Especially since it's at the Dean Dome.

Next play, next game, let's just hope Duke learns from their mistakes and what ailments a few Duke players may or may not be sufferingfrom they can get over quickly.

Agreed.

[FerryFor50]

Especially since it's at the Dean Dome.

The next UNC meeting is at Cameron.

[gw67]

tbyers11 - IMO, that was not an intentional foul; however, your point about the previous technical and the motion by McFarland probably influenced the call (i. e., chippy Wake player nailing Duke player). Henderson had a good run and goes very hard to dunk the ball. You better be ready to man up if you want to stop him. Osby is one of the strongest players in the ACC and dared to stop Henderson on a drive last week and came away laughing about it after he got the ball but fouled Henderson.

I think that it was a bad call (Hey, that happens.) but the worst part was that it seemed to energize the Wake coach, players and fans. I'm biased but I think it may have influenced the refs as well for the next several minutes.

gw67

[Johnboy]

Yeah, what was the deal with the yellow tie? I thought that it was very weird to wear a tie with the opposing teams colors. Very weird.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you are really clueless and not just a jerk. Are you aware that Skip Prosser, the Wake Forest coach last season, passed away suddenly this past summer?

It's not weird to pay tribute to a man whose passing left a terrible void in the college basketball world. It's classy.

It has also been dealt with on this thread already.

[RPS]

The next UNC meeting is at Cameron.

Latta was referring to Wake and Wake plays UNC at the Dean Dome next.

I think that it was a bad call (Hey, that happens.)

I agree.

...but the worst part was that it seemed to energize the Wake coach, players and fans. I'm biased but I think it may have influenced the refs as well for the next several minutes.

Actually, it became the start of the Duke run that got the lead to 5 before Wake came back and the wheels came off for Duke.

[BlueintheFace]

Last night in K-ville the crazies witnessed the players trod out of Cameron one after the other... heads hung low. This was depressing enough, but then Jon Scheyer walked out, except he wasn't really walking. Jon could barely hobble out. It looks like that ankle injury is much worse than we all thought.

Toss in Gerald's wrist injury and this team is starting to look a little ragged. If these injuries are going to be lasting, how should K game plan for the rest of the season? I guess the real question is, how important is that #1 seed in the East really? Is it worth possibly dropping a few games and seeds for a healthy team in March?

[Neals384]

Let's look on the bright side. When you have a 12 game winning streak, everyone thinks he's superman. Losing gives coach K an opportunity to correct some of the bad habits his players have.

[happydays1949]

.

i thought the worst thing from the Wake fans was doing a very loud cheer to drown out the Duke player introductions. Do we do that in Cameron? Back in my day (TM), we greeted opposing players with a hearty "Hi, Rodney" or whatever their name was. I found it (last night) to be poor sportsmanship.

Last night was the first time I have been in an opposing team's gym in over 5 years. I couldn't even hear the introductions, and thought it was very poor sportsmanship. Or, perhaps every other team does that now...does anyone know?

[Classof06]

What team isn't young these days. Just look at Wake; they have no seniors and start 2 freshmen and 3 sophomores.

Sorry but I just don't buy the "young" argument anymore.

I followed that statement up by saying young or not, we were due for a bad game. But that doesn't change the fact that Duke is a young team. We have one senior and two juniors. I don't care what our national ranking is or what our record is, this is a young team. That's not making any excuses, that's the truth.

[houstondukie]

...for a total of 4 points.

[houstondukie]

That #1 seed in the East is critical. With that said, I think we can still beat teams at the bottom of the ACC with some of our players resting, especially home games.

[micah75]

5. Duke did not lose becuase of the officiating. Yes, the officials were horrendous, however, the officials did not blow 10-12 lay ups, and the officials did not prevent our team from making FTs. Layups and FTs... fundamentals.

That pretty much sums up my general take on the game.

10. Sadly, for all the good we experienced with the Wake fans, there were two rather embarassing moments for them (in my eyes). First, when Scheyer tweaked his ankle in the first half, they let loose with chants of “Scheyer’s crying!” Pure class there. Then, in the second half, when Duke went on that little run and was up 5 with about 12 minutes left, they started pelting the Duke bench with crap. The PA announcer asked that fans not throw things at the benches… the ENTIRE ARENA booed. Good times.

I had noticed in several shots of Coach K in the 2nd half that he had some white specks on his jacket that you don't normally see. I guess the Wake fans pelting the Duke bench would explain that.

I'm a huge Greg Paulus fan, but I also like Nolan Smith as well, and (2nd-guessing of course) felt he should have played more minutes early on, being that the biorhythms seemed to be off for Greg and nearly everyone else. He had a monster game playing only 18 minutes. Seemed to be pulling a Tyus Edny on several possessions late in the game.

Could have done without Fox's overkill camera shots of McFarland's yukkie pinkie.

[Classof06]

While I believe Duke can go deep in the tournament regardless, I think they need that 1 seed in the East to have a legitimate chance at winning it all. That would help this team immensely. They need to get back on the horse and keep going because UNC seems to be getting stronger by the day. The last thing this team needs to do is scale it back.

Yeah, we seemed to be a little dinged up. But this is why depth is key, ladies and gentleman..

[dcarp23]

I'm a huge Greg Paulus fan, but I also like Nolan Smith as well, and (2nd-guessing of course) felt he should have played more minutes early on, being that the biorhythms seemed to be off for Greg and nearly everyone else. He had a monster game playing only 18 minutes. Seemed to be pulling a Tyus Edny on several possessions late in the game. .

I really like the lineup when both guys are in there. If Henderson's wrist continues to bother him as much as it appears, maybe we'll see more of that lineup.

Could have done without Fox's overkill camera shots of McFarland's yukkie pinkie.

Could not agree more. That was nasty, and they would NOT quit showing it.

[DU82]

By rule, to have back court you first need team control, and there is no team control from the time the ball is shot until someone secures the rebound.

Obviously, the refs must have decided Duke had secured the rebound, even if ever so briefly, before the ball was subsequently knocked loose (which does not end team control).

-jk

It wasn't a rebound, if I remember correctly (it's long gone from my DVR, of course!) Jon had control dribbling, the ball was knocked loose, Jon knocked it to the backcourt, and then he touched it. Backcourt violation as it was still team control.

I agree had it been a long rebound, and a player touched it and it went into the backcourt, it would not be a violation.