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  1. #201
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by billo View Post
    According to GoDuke.com, this was the first time in Duke history that all five STARTERS fouled out!
    i remember watching an arizona/illinois game in the ncaat (i think 2003) where arizona fouled out a ton of players but i don't think it was the entire starting team and many of the fouls were in the last couple of minutes and intentional. it seemed like all but paulus fouled out before the intentional fouls started. i wonder how many times this has happened in the history of the ncaa. it can't be that many.

  2. #202
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.

    Yes, yes, yes!

    Quote Originally Posted by korshmar View Post
    Is it just me or does anyone else out there wonder what in the world Coach K is doing with Taylor King? Remember, the guy who put up 27 points on phenomenal three point shooting in limited playing time in a game early in the season? With a need for offensive production in the second half against Wake, Taylor sat while Scheyer went 0-8 and Golden Boy Singler threw the ball all over the place. With Nolan Smith's fine penetration, I could just visualize King hitting 5 three's in about 5 minutes to turn this game around.

    I'm sure someone will tell me King is a defensive liability, but last night nobody else was doing so hot on defense, and we needed offense. I'm sure someone will tell me King's shot has not been there recently. How would you know? He comes in, cold off the bench, misses one shot and is gone immediately. King must be demoralized- he's barely in the game, he's out. He does anything wrong, he's pulled, whereas Singler can make the most ridiculous turnovers, throwing passes practically to the stands, and he's good for 37 minutes.

    So I'm curious: was anybody else thinking, "Put King in," last night against Wake? Does anyone else think King has been getting pulled way too quickly and not given a chance?
    Yes. I was thinking the same thing. Nobody is making any shots. There's no offense whatsoever. Wake is extending the lead. Why not give TK a chance? Yes, I know he's "Icy-hot," but if he happens to be hot, he can bring the team back into a game in a hurry! What was there to lose at that point?

  3. #203
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    What was the significance of the opposing coaches wear the other teams colors?
    Also, maybe Kyle hit a small wall. I know he had 17 pts. but I don't remember him ever throwing such soft passes. I think he had 5 turnovers in the first half.
    I too am in the camp of playing Taylor more. I know he seems to have lost all his confidence. I just hope he stays at Duke because I think he can and will be a valuable part of the team in his four years of elligibility.
    No high school star wants to be relagated to a bench warmer.

  4. #204
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsfan View Post
    What was the significance of the opposing coaches wear the other teams colors?
    Also, maybe Kyle hit a small wall. I know he had 17 pts. but I don't remember him ever throwing such soft passes. I think he had 5 turnovers in the first half.
    I too am in the camp of playing Taylor more. I know he seems to have lost all his confidence. I just hope he stays at Duke because I think he can and will be a valuable part of the team in his four years of elligibility.
    No high school star wants to be relagated to a bench warmer.
    Agreed.

    I think King's lack of playing time has to do with his shot selection, as well as Coach K's tendency to shorten his bench every year around this time when he needs the role players to get meaningful minutes.

  5. #205
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham at heart
    Well, I read the first 6 pages of this thread and just can't stand to read anymore, so here are my thoughts after the drive home in the rain, and a night to sleep on it.

    1. LJC is a great venue. Kudos to Wake for its design and accessibility. The Wake fans that we were sitting with were knowledgable and we enjoyed chatting with them during the game about thier team, Dino and Skip.

    2. To whoever posted "WTF is with the yellow tie"... shut your mouth. Skip Prosser was one of the great stewards of the game of college basketball. I met him when he was the coach at Xavier, and spoke with him several times in Cameron once he came to Wake. He was a great coach and friend of K... if you think the tie was out of line, you're sadly mistaken.

    3. The over and back WAS over and back. Scheyer tipped that ball twice before it went across the line, and he essentially had control of it before he lost it.

    4. The foul on G was NOT intentional... it was hard, but Macfarlane went for the ball. Terrible call.

    5. Duke did not lose becuase of the officiating. Yes, the officials were horrendous, however, the officials did not blow 10-12 lay ups, and the officials did not prevent our team from making FTs. Layups and FTs... fundamentals.

    6. At no point in the game did Duke match Wake's intensity. Every time Wake made a bucket or a good defensive play, thier entire bench was up and cheering... practially on the floor. Duke didn't even look like they knew that a game was occuring.

    7. Paulus was not to blame for Duke's offensive struggles. Everyone was extrememly tentative... this was epitomized in one trip during the first half in which LT got in position for a rebound on a drive by G... who pump faked and passed the ball to Scheyer... who drove into the lane, went up, faked and dumped the ball off to Singler who pumped... and then LT got whistled for 3 seconds. Well, perhaps we should have SHOT THE F-ING BALL!

    8. Jon Scheyer is a defensive liability? OK, so those who answer in the affirmative actually don't watch Duke basketball, right?

    9. I said in the pregame thread that the key to this game would be stopping Wakes dribble penetration. It was, and we didn't. Our transition D was terrible and Smith and Teague pretty much got to the three point arc or inside before someone picked them up. That was really what killed us.

    10. Sadly, for all the good we experienced with the Wake fans, there were two rather embarassing moments for them (in my eyes). First, when Scheyer tweaked his ankle in the first half, they let loose with chants of “Scheyer’s crying!” Pure class there. Then, in the second half, when Duke went on that little run and was up 5 with about 12 minutes left, they started pelting the Duke bench with crap. The PA announcer asked that fans not throw things at the benches… the ENTIRE ARENA booed. Good times.

    Duke played a terrible game. However, what matters now is how they bounce back. Don't slit your wrist just yet... there's still a lot of ball to be played, and we're 10-1 in the ACC with a game in hand over the Holes. If you'd told me that in November, I'd have taken it!
    WWJDD?

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Dukie View Post
    Anyone know why it took about 6 minutes before Scheyer got in the game? It looked like he was the 8th man or so today. Any chance he was hurt?
    I was wondering that too. Zoubek and McClure both came off the bench before Scheyer.

    I saw Jon walking around pretty gingerly this morning, but I think that might just be a result of leaving it all on the floor last night. It could have also been the result of tweaking that ankle. On the court though, he certainly didn't look injured. Maybe his legs are getting tired.

  7. #207
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    MM--very well written and thought out--I agree with it all--bouncing back is the key--did anyone actually expect us to go undefeated the rest of the season??

  8. #208
    maybe its been mentioned, but why was the Wake scoreboard operator allowed to get away with TWICE letting the clock run during free throws (each time trying to run off around 7 seconds). It was corrected both times, but I find it hard to believe that this wasn't intentional. In both cases, the clock had already stopped, and then was restarted several seconds later, while players were on the line in a situation where it was VERY clear that running time off benefited the home team.

    Didn't affect the outcome, but seems like you can forgive this sort of thing once as an "error", but twice? Come on. I certainly hope they were warned the second time.

  9. #209
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham at heart
    Quote Originally Posted by ohioguy2 View Post
    MM--very well written and thought out--I agree with it all--bouncing back is the key--did anyone actually expect us to go undefeated the rest of the season??
    Sadly, yes. I'm sure that many people actually believed that Duke would go through the ACC slate undefeated. Truth be told, with our schedule remaining, it was a possibility, but as I told my buddy last night after Wake dropped 47 on us in the first half... what do we learn if we win that game last night other than we can again come out flat and "turn it on" in the second half. I hope the great lesson from last night is that to play like a champion, you have to play all out and be focused for 40 minutes.
    WWJDD?

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Latta6970 View Post
    Fire so basically what you are saying is that is the norm in opposing arenas. Would someone like to explain is that only when their team plays Duke? For example when Henderson did a hook move to get free under the basket, even as a biased Duke fan I could clearly see that was a foul. Yet it seems when fans from other schools get a call on their player, even on obvious calls they feel they are being robbed.

    I am NOT suggesting Duke did not commit their fair share of fouls last night even with the questional calls and no calls through out the game. But I have seen one team get more fouls called against them and the head coach point out the discrepancy to the refs. The number of fouls called on both teams is not supposed to be equal to make it fair. If yor team is committing more fouls you might want to teach them better defense and to stop hacking. And again those who say Duke gets all the calls are so full of equestrian fecal matter it's running out their ears. I've seen very few games where five players on one team fouled out, even in an over time game. For the entire starting five to foul out in unprecidented in Duke history and I know I've never seen it happen to any other team.
    I believe that Clemson (under Rick Barnes) in the late '90's lost so many players to fouls that they finished a game against UNC with only 3 players on the court. I don't recall if Clemson had any starters left-- though it doesn't really matter much, when you are playing 3 against 5, does it? Those were the days when Barnes decided to turn his games against UNC into football (and chippy football, at that). Oh, by the way, there's only one "R" in (Wake) Forest, even if there are two in Forrest (Gump).

  11. #211

    Scheyer limping

    Scheyer is limping around campus today. Anybody know if he got injured? Hopefully, he's just really sore or something. I don't want to start a panic or anything, but was just curious if anybody has any inside info.

  12. #212
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Piedmont Triad, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by dukeENG2003 View Post
    maybe its been mentioned, but why was the Wake scoreboard operator allowed to get away with TWICE letting the clock run during free throws (each time trying to run off around 7 seconds). It was corrected both times, but I find it hard to believe that this wasn't intentional. In both cases, the clock had already stopped, and then was restarted several seconds later, while players were on the line in a situation where it was VERY clear that running time off benefited the home team.

    Didn't affect the outcome, but seems like you can forgive this sort of thing once as an "error", but twice? Come on. I certainly hope they were warned the second time.
    i'm guessing it was mechanical error, not operator error. sure, it looks fishy, given the context, but i base my opinion on this...

    waiting for the 2nd half to start, before teams even took the court again, the clock ran down 10 seconds to 19:50, and had to be reset. maybe he was just practicing for later, though.

  13. #213
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Piedmont Triad, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by MulletMan View Post
    10. Sadly, for all the good we experienced with the Wake fans, there were two rather embarassing moments for them (in my eyes). First, when Scheyer tweaked his ankle in the first half, they let loose with chants of “Scheyer’s crying!” Pure class there. Then, in the second half, when Duke went on that little run and was up 5 with about 12 minutes left, they started pelting the Duke bench with crap. The PA announcer asked that fans not throw things at the benches… the ENTIRE ARENA booed. Good times.
    on that last part, i cracked up at the time, asking my father-in-law if they were booing themselves.

    i thought the worst thing from the Wake fans was doing a very loud cheer to drown out the Duke player introductions. Do we do that in Cameron? Back in my day (TM), we greeted opposing players with a hearty "Hi, Rodney" or whatever their name was. I found it (last night) to be poor sportsmanship.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by korshmar View Post
    Is it just me or does anyone else out there wonder what in the world Coach K is doing with Taylor King? Remember, the guy who put up 27 points on phenomenal three point shooting in limited playing time in a game early in the season? With a need for offensive production in the second half against Wake, Taylor sat while Scheyer went 0-8 and Golden Boy Singler threw the ball all over the place. With Nolan Smith's fine penetration, I could just visualize King hitting 5 three's in about 5 minutes to turn this game around.

    I'm sure someone will tell me King is a defensive liability, but last night nobody else was doing so hot on defense, and we needed offense. I'm sure someone will tell me King's shot has not been there recently. How would you know? He comes in, cold off the bench, misses one shot and is gone immediately. King must be demoralized- he's barely in the game, he's out. He does anything wrong, he's pulled, whereas Singler can make the most ridiculous turnovers, throwing passes practically to the stands, and he's good for 37 minutes.

    So I'm curious: was anybody else thinking, "Put King in," last night against Wake? Does anyone else think King has been getting pulled way too quickly and not given a chance?
    Are you one of King's partying buddies on campus? Because if you aren't, you might have noticed that King has been highly ineffective when he is in the game lately, and with 6-7 other players playing much better, it's going to be hard to stay on the floor when you aren't successfully doing the one thing you are good at (making long shots, when you're open and they pass you the ball), and the rest of your game is not going well.

    I'm thinking that Singler is getting 37 minutes a game because he is far and away the headiest (last night's game notwithstanding), most complete, most effective, and best player on this team-- and the one player this team cannot do without-- if Singler doesn't play for Duke this year, I think this team would have between 5-7 more losses than it currently does... if King doesn't play, I'm not sure the record is any different than it is. In any event, I'd be more disappointed in King's lack of opportunities, if I felt that he was doing all he could outside of the games to maximize his potential-- which would include trying to watch his intake of unnecessary carbohydrates and toxins.

  15. #215
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    San Diego, California
    The weeping, wailing and teeth-knashing are a bit over the top (in my humble estimation). Wake was better and deserved to win. Next play.

    Also, let's more careful to distinguish legitimate concerns from illegitimate ones.

    • Dribble penetration was huge. Wake got it consistently; we didn't.
    • 3-point shooting was off. It happens. But I was concerned that we took too many even after it was clear that we were struggling. I would have preferred trying something else. Easily fixed though.
    • Ref talk is foolish. With 10 minutes left, FTs were about even; then the rails came off for us. If we want to criticize the silliness of "Duke gets all the calls," we need to practice what we preach.
    • Like others, I'm concerned about GH's health. I'm also hoping JS's rolled ankle is okay.
    • Gaudio and Wake were very impressive. If their recruiting class is close to as good as advertised, Wake should become extremely good.
    • The gold ties to honor Skip were terrific.
    • Bad shooting. Bad shot selection. Way too many turnovers. And we're still in it late against a very good home team playing great. Not the end of the world. Not even close.
    Next play.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Mudge View Post
    Are you one of King's partying buddies on campus? Because if you aren't, you might have noticed that King has been highly ineffective when he is in the game lately, and with 6-7 other players playing much better, it's going to be hard to stay on the floor when you aren't successfully doing the one thing you are good at (making long shots, when you're open and they pass you the ball), and the rest of your game is not going well.
    I disagree. Taylor has been ice cold, but he's actually been good (not great) in a lot of other aspects. He's rebounding and blocking shots fairly well, given his size. His D is still pretty lacking, though. Generally I have no problem with the minute distribution this season, but I would have loved to see K toss Taylor in just to see how he's shooting last night and maybe even run a J.J. screen play or two. If he's hot, he's quite a weapon. If he's cold, well, it can't be worse than Jon (0-3), G (0-2), or Greg (1-6). I do believe K was, erm, okay with this loss and deliberately didn't do anything to protect the team from their own overconfidence. This was a teaching moment at the perfect time in the season.

  17. #217
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Emerald Isle, NC
    My tarheel boyfriend (yes, it is very tough living with a Carolina fan!) questioned the fact that our starters all fouled out of the game. He felt that the officiating was poor, but I pointed out that we would have lost anyway given the fact that the team just did not bring it. Hopefully the guys will learn and grow after last night. I don't know about anyone else, but I would much rather see this happen now instead of during the tournament or, God forbid on March 8th!

    GO DUKE, no matter what!!!

  18. #218
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Orlando, FL

    Intentional foul

    I have to post my take on the intentional foul by McFarland on Gerald b/c I didn't think it was an awful call. The replay that I saw showed that McFarland jumped in the air with both of his hands together over his head (kinda like how one would put their hands together before diving off a diving board) and he came down with a hard tomahawk motion with the hands still together. He got some ball and didn't hit Gerald that hard (partially b/c Gerald was knocked off his flight path by another Wake player making contact with him from the other side), but the amount of contact is irrelevant. This was an intentional, not a flagrant (which I don't believe exist in college ball) foul.

    IMO, the referee thought that the way McFarland challenged Gerald (two hands together, tomahawk motion) showed that he had no intention of trying to make a clean play for the ball and called the intentional accordingly. The ref may have been influenced by McFarland's chippy play and technical for jawing earlier in the game. But hey, McFarland reaped what he had sown.

    Feldspar, or any of the other refs out there, does my take have any merit on how referees are instructed to call intentional fouls or am I just making stuff up?

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    Scheyer is limping around campus today. Anybody know if he got injured? Hopefully, he's just really sore or something. I don't want to start a panic or anything, but was just curious if anybody has any inside info.
    Thanks for confirming my suspicions, noted above. Scheyer rolled his ankle yesterday, so I'm sure that the limp is the result of that. If they let him play through it, however, I doubt that it's very serious.

  20. #220
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeDevil View Post
    The two things I noticed in the short span I saw was 1) bump outs on the baseline. Didn't the playcaller address this? If you have the ball and step out of bounds, it's either out or a foul if you were bumped out. It seemed really straightforward to me, and I find it hard to believe that all of those were our players stepping out without a bump on the baseline. I'll believe one or two could be a bad camera angle on our part, but seriously?
    I don't know if anyone else caught this but around the half there was video of the Wake locker room with Gaudet speaking to the team. On the dry erase board you'll see something like "Absolute must haves" or something on the lower left side. I believe #1 was defend the baseline. They weren't going to let Duke have the baseline drives no matter what. I assume that included fouling the offensive player. I guess that worked out for them.

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