Mason Plumlee Collector Thread

[SilkyJ]

Zoubek, LT and MP1 to continue what they're doing this season at the 5

And what exactly are they doing this year? Being BARELY adequate to the point that we are once again moving singler to the 5 and playing a small ball lineup with McClure, EVEN when we are playing teams with good bigs like NC State and Georgetown. But you're right K is suddenly going to change his whole style and go big and play kids who are barely able to keep up in ACC play. Man you've got it nailed on the head.

Bottom-line, I'll put my money where my mouth is if you want to bet on this. Any and all who keep talking about this kid playing alongside Zoubs next year or his brother in future years are freaking crazy, imo. Just like I (and others) said that everyone talking about E-Will replacing Scheyer in the lineup was freaking crazy.

The only way MP2 sees significant time at the 4 would be b/c we simply dont have any guards (i.e. we don't get john wall AND gerald AND marty leave this year, AND then the next year the freshman in 2010 would not be ready to contribute right away, and from what i hear Thornton and Dawkins will be ready, and Barnes is a straight stud if we get him.) MP2 is our center of the future.

I tell you what, why don't you actually tell me a REASON for why MP2 is going to play the 4. All you've said is that A) its his natural position (which I shot down b/c you're referring to his offensive repertoire) and B) b/c we have Zoubs and MP1 (which is a silly argument that I just retorted. you also mentioned lance, which I also shot down in a previos post. if/when MP2 and lance see the floor together, MP2 will be guarding the opposing team's center)

[SupaDave]

[QUOTE]

And what exactly are they doing this year? Being BARELY adequate to the point that we are once again moving singler to the 5 and playing a small ball lineup with McClure, EVEN when we are playing teams with good bigs like NC State and Georgetown. But you're right K is suddenly going to change his whole style and go big and play kids who are barely able to keep up in ACC play. Man you've got it nailed on the head.

Does 'barely adequate' equal 'not dominate' in your book? Those three guys have contributed rebounds, points, blocks, steals, and assists in our last three contests. Lance plays bucket to bucket - full speed.

Bottom-line, I'll put my money where my mouth is if you want to bet on this. Any and all who keep talking about this kid playing alongside Zoubs next year or his brother in future years are freaking crazy, imo. Just like I (and others) said that everyone talking about E-Will replacing Scheyer in the lineup was freaking crazy.

I wouldn't pull out my wallet just yet. Duke will have the capability of being a very big and unique team next year. Mason and Kelly are turning out to be huge talents who force their way on to the court as other Dukies have in the past.

The only way MP2 sees significant time at the 4 would be b/c we simply dont have any guards (i.e. we don't get john wall AND gerald AND marty leave this year, AND then the next year the freshman in 2010 would not be ready to contribute right away, and from what i hear Thornton and Dawkins will be ready, and Barnes is a straight stud if we get him.) MP2 is our center of the future.

I highly doubt this is the only way...

I tell you what, why don't you actually tell me a REASON for why MP2 is going to play the 4. All you've said is that A) its his natural position (which I shot down b/c you're referring to his offensive repertoire) and B) b/c we have Zoubs and MP1 (which is a silly argument that I just retorted. you also mentioned lance, which I also shot down in a previos post. if/when MP2 and lance see the floor together, MP2 will be guarding the opposing team's center)

Wow - I didn't think you would make it this easy.

Hello my name is Mason Plumlee and I weigh 205 lbs. There's a good chance I will be at 220 by the time the season starts but I have no idea what it would be like to guard a 255 pound man in the middle especially while learning where to stand in the Duke defense.

Oh yeah - just for fun, Lance, Zoubs, and Miles will have 9+ years of experience to my ZERO. That's also 9+ years of weight and endurance training preparing for a grueling ACC which should result in some serious weight training for next year's team.

Need another reason?

[SilkyJ]

Does 'barely adequate' equal 'not dominate' in your book?

No. Being barely adequate equals losing minutes to a 6'6 role player who has seen spotty minutes over his career despite the fact that we needed our bigs in those games b/c we were playing against teams with good bigs. Zoubs can't guard mobile bigs (did you see him in the last two games?) lance can't guard ones who can jump or back him down (have you watched Duke games for the last 2.5 years?) and MP1 is still young and learning, tho I actually like what he brings and wish we'd see him more.

(pop quiz: did you know that Lance Brian and Miles combined for 15 minutes against georgetown, and Miles led with 7?)

Those three guys have contributed rebounds, points, blocks, steals, and assists in our last three contests. Lance plays bucket to bucket - full speed.

Not really they didn't. Their COMBINED box score (i'm talking all three of them) CUMULATIVE for the last THREE games is

12pts/14rebs/3ast/1blk1/stl/6turnovers (when I make statistical claims, I back them up with LINKS) so that means allllll 3 of them COMBINED averaged 4pts/4.7rebs/1ast/.3blks/.3stls/2turnovers PER GAME. Yes my friend, that is what I call BARELY ADEQUATE.

Boxscores:
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.db...ATCLID=3646958
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.db...ATCLID=3648393
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.db...ATCLID=3650491

You're right though, Lance hustles so that should end the argument especially considering he's really a center in the first place.

I wouldn't pull out my wallet just yet.

I would, so bet me.

Duke will have the capability of being a very big and unique team next year. Mason and Kelly are turning out to be huge talents who force their way on to the court as other Dukies have in the past.

Ok, I agree and said so earlier. I think they will force their way onto the court as well. And I think in doing so they will push our weaker players, which would be our post players, to the bench and NOT push our better players, being Kyle and our guards to the bench. This is what I've been saying the whole time...

I highly doubt this is the only way...

Care to provide a rationale?

Wow - I didn't think you would make it this easy.

Funny, I'm thinking the same thing.

Hello my name is Mason Plumlee and I weigh 205 lbs. There's a good chance I will be at 220 by the time the season starts but I have no idea what it would be like to guard a 255 pound man in the middle especially while learning where to stand in the Duke defense.

Hi, my name is Kyle Singler. Last year I arrived on campus last year at 220lbs and am only 6'8" and guarded 255 pound big men in the post while learning where to stand in the Duke Defense.

Hi, I'm Mason Plumlee and I'll be 220 when I get to campus. By the way I'm 6'11" and am a state high jumping champion partially known for my post defense and rebounding in addition to my jumpshot and ball handling skills (3 out of 4 of which ALLLLLLLLLL of our post players, MP1 excluded, lack.)

Oh yeah - just for fun, Lance, Zoubs, and Miles will have 9+ years of experience to my ZERO. That's also 9+ years of weight and endurance training preparing for a grueling ACC which should result in some serious weight training for next year's team.
Need another reason?

You have me there, but only sort of. Lance Zoubs and Miles will have a combined 7 years of experience. You're right though they will be experienced.

Interesting side note, but we have these other guys on the team, perhaps you've heard of them: Gerald, Scheyer, and Kyle, the people MP2 would have to push off the court if we elect to keep your boys (Lance, Zoubs and Miles). So weird, but they will have a combined 8 years of experience and are 1st Team All-ACC caliber players with NBA futures...not to rain on anyones parade, but I'm not sure Lance or Zoubs or Miles is gonna play in the L.

Oh just for fun:

Hi, I'm Briance Thomleek- My career averages are 10.5 points, 7.8rebs, 0.8asts, and 1.2blks per game. No way a projected top 10 post player in a stacked class can come close to competing with me! I'm a three headed beast!

Need another reason?

You mean beyond "they'll have experience and weigh more?" Yes, I need another reason.

Additionally, you'll note that I also am talking about MP2's position on the team beyond just next year, when it will really be him, MP1 and Kelly competing for time at the 5, and maybe hairston.

[77devil]

Wow - I didn't think you would make it this easy.

Hello my name is Mason Plumlee and I weigh 205 lbs. There's a good chance I will be at 220 by the time the season starts but I have no idea what it would be like to guard a 255 pound man in the middle especially while learning where to stand in the Duke defense.

Oh yeah - just for fun, Lance, Zoubs, and Miles will have 9+ years of experience to my ZERO. That's also 9+ years of weight and endurance training preparing for a grueling ACC which should result in some serious weight training for next year's team.

Need another reason?

Reads more like reasons why MP2 will spend more time on the pine that playing the #4.

[ice-9]

And what exactly are they doing this year? Being BARELY adequate to the point that we are once again moving singler to the 5 and playing a small ball lineup with McClure, EVEN when we are playing teams with good bigs like NC State and Georgetown. But you're right K is suddenly going to change his whole style and go big and play kids who are barely able to keep up in ACC play. Man you've got it nailed on the head.

You're underselling Z, LT and MP1. They've had bad games in our last few matches, sure, but that doesn't mean they are incapable. Zoubek has the highest +/- per 40 minutes of the season, and the fifth highest overall. I'd say he's doing at least an adequate job.

But let's take your logic one step further and judge a player only by his performance in the last few games. Which player on the team has shot 7 of 33 field goals (21%) the last four games? That's right, it's Jon Scheyer. Guess he should join Z in the Internet lynching.

Bottom-line, I'll put my money where my mouth is if you want to bet on this. Any and all who keep talking about this kid playing alongside Zoubs next year or his brother in future years are freaking crazy, imo. Just like I (and others) said that everyone talking about E-Will replacing Scheyer in the lineup was freaking crazy.

The only way MP2 sees significant time at the 4 would be b/c we simply dont have any guards (i.e. we don't get john wall AND gerald AND marty leave this year, AND then the next year the freshman in 2010 would not be ready to contribute right away, and from what i hear Thornton and Dawkins will be ready, and Barnes is a straight stud if we get him.) MP2 is our center of the future.

If Singler and Henderson leave next season, I am willing to bet that you will see line-ups with MP2 at the 4 playing alongside Z, LT or MP1 at the 5. (Not so much LT, but definitely alongside Z or MP1.)

I tell you what, why don't you actually tell me a REASON for why MP2 is going to play the 4. All you've said is that A) its his natural position (which I shot down b/c you're referring to his offensive repertoire) and B) b/c we have Zoubs and MP1 (which is a silly argument that I just retorted. you also mentioned lance, which I also shot down in a previos post. if/when MP2 and lance see the floor together, MP2 will be guarding the opposing team's center)

LOL. You haven't QEDed anything. Stating something different to what I stated doesn't make it a retort.

Like I've already written, MP2 playing the 4 doesn't mean he won't be defending the post. Coach K has had many teams where the 4 spends most of his time in the interior guarding his man or providing help side defense -- i.e. don't you worry, MP2 will be blocking shots even at the 4. He will also be able to get rebounds at the 4. Who's the leading rebounder on our team? Oh, it's Singler who plays the 4 most of the time. Your "retort" about MP2's offensive repertoire is bunk; MP2's skills is best utilized at the 4, not at the 5 where he will have to guard big men he cannot consistently guard for a season. Assuming he doesn't gain 50 pounds of muscle from now until matriculation, MP2's natural position in college is the 4; I don't know how you can argue against this.

Obviously, you can't consider roles in a vacuum because this is a team game. So going with my scenario where Singler and Henderson leave...what do we have returning?
- Guards: Nolan, Jon, Elliot and Marty(?)
- Forwards: Olek, Thomas, MP1
- Centers: Zoubek

Where would you slot Kelly and MP2 in the above?

[SilkyJ]

You're underselling Z, LT and MP1. They've had bad games in our last few matches, sure, but that doesn't mean they are incapable. Zoubek has the highest +/- per 40 minutes of the season, and the fifth highest overall. I'd say he's doing at least an adequate job.

Did you really write that to chastise me for "underselling" all three of Z/LT/MP1 as "barely adequate" and argue that ONE of them is "adequate?" Fine, you win, one of them is adequate...

(p.s. I didn't bring up their production in the short term, Supa Dave did, I just gave the numbers...and if you actually read my post you'd see I gave their career stats too)

[SupaDave]

Reads more like reasons why MP2 will spend more time on the pine that playing the #4.

That's a possibility.

[SupaDave]

Hi, my name is Kyle Singler. Last year I arrived on campus last year at 220lbs and am only 6'8" and guarded 255 pound big men in the post while learning where to stand in the Duke Defense.

Hi, I'm Mason Plumlee and I'll be 220 when I get to campus. By the way I'm 6'11" and am a state high jumping champion...

There's something called BMI - ever heard of that? We already know how Kyle struggled so basically you're telling me we're gonna have Mike Dunleavy starting at the 5 next year.

[Devilsfan]

Has Zoub returned to last years form. I watched him at 7'1" get stuffed twice against lowly NCSU and not play much at crunch time. I sure hope not as we need him badly. He was playing so well until NCSU, maybe he just had an off night.

[dball]

Hi, I'm Mason Plumlee and I'll be 220 when I get to campus. By the way I'm 6'11" and am a state high jumping champion

Believe that the track star Plumlee is already at school. Didn't Miles set his school record of 6'9'' in the high jump?

[SilkyJ]

There's something called BMI - ever heard of that? We already know how Kyle struggled so basically you're telling me we're gonna have Mike Dunleavy starting at the 5 next year.

That's all you've got? I guess that's understandable after what happened last time you posted something lengthy.

You go through my posts and find where I said anything about Mason Plumlee starting and I'll send you a check for $20. (hint: I didn't say that.)

It isn't fair for me to read and respond thoughtfully to your posts (and back mine up with research, I might add) while you guys do not fully read my posts, put words in my mouth, and make claims with no supporting information (and that turn out to be false).

[Karl Beem]

Has Zoub returned to last years form. I watched him at 7'1" get stuffed twice against lowly NCSU and not play much at crunch time. I sure hope not as we need him badly. He was playing so well until NCSU, maybe he just had an off night.

Actually, with the exception of those plays, he did quite well. Two nifty post moves and several excellent passes. I thought his defense was good.

[DukeBlood]

But let's take your logic one step further and judge a player only by his performance in the last few games. Which player on the team has shot 7 of 33 field goals (21%) the last four games? That's right, it's Jon Scheyer. Guess he should join Z in the Internet lynching.

Jon does alot of great things even when he isn't scoring. He finds a way to contribute to this team. He is also averaging 9 PPG during that 3 game stretch.

Why bring Jon into this discussion at all? Yes he is struggling with his shot, But he does just about everything else to make this team better. That is something I cannot say about Brian.

As far as the rest of the discussion. Who know's what will happen next year. Either way it will be a fun ride. Enjoy this year, and stop worrying about next year.

[roywhite]

Believe that the track star Plumlee is already at school. Didn't Miles set his school record of 6'9'' in the high jump?

You're right; Miles did the 6'9"; Mason also jumped, and had a best of 6'4". Neither really have been at the high jump very long, and are certainly not technical masters.

Mason looks to be more skillful on the court; can shoot, drive, rebound, and block shots.

[ice-9]

Why bring Jon into this discussion at all? Yes he is struggling with his shot, But he does just about everything else to make this team better. That is something I cannot say about Brian.

Completely agree with you on Jon's ability to make an impact outside the score line. My point is just to illustrate that you cannot judge a player's entire worth based on just the last few games which can be affected by 1) how you're playing and 2) match-ups.

And you're a little harsh on Zoubek. His +/- the last four games...
FSU: +13
GT: +6
GU: -2
NC State: 0

Think about it. In the past four games in which he supposedly played badly, he had good numbers in two of them, is down only -2 to what some say will be a top 3 pick in the NBA draft, and held his position to even against a more than decent front court in NC State.

[Diddy]

I want to correct the size discussion going on here. Mason is not Casey Sanders esque. I was at school with Casey, and I even ran into him on his/a recruiting visit (when he was a Jr). He was rail thin. I mean, RAIL thin.

Not so with Plumlee. Casey was listed at 205, but it was generally accepted that he was 195 as a hs Sr. Plum is way bigger than that. He has some good definition on his upper body.

The announcers, and the Acc Sports Journal (poopsheet) were talking about him being in the 215(+) lb range. And growing. Now that he has stopped going up, he can start going out, size wize. I think he will be 220 or 225 by next year. He could end up at arround 235-240 before he leaves.

I am not saying he will be a monster down low, but he is big enough to play, right now. Sure, some big bodies can and will back him down, but his long arms, positioning, hops, and timing will negate some of that. Even when he gives up position, he will be able to erase that mistake. He is not a superstud, from day 1, probably, but I would not be shocked for him be a scary shotblocker early on.

He will be good. Given that both he and Kelly are hitting the weight room hard, and already have good skills, it will be a fight for minutes next year. Brian, Lance, Miles, Mason, and Ryan will ALL have to work for mpg. If Kyle returns, I fully anticipate him losing a (very) few minutes to one of these guys. Given Kyle's versatility, he could easily move to the three. Remember, in 2001, our front line was Carlos, Shane, and Dun, all of whom were 6-8 or better. Should Hendo leave, I can easily see a front line of Kyle, and the two Plums, or a Kelly, or something. It will be a dog fight for MPG next year, regardless of who returns.

But, the main point is this. While Plum needs some weight room work, he doesn't DESPERATELY need weight room work. If he could join the team for the game today, he would be big enough to get on the floor and bang. He is not tiny, or rail thin. He is college thin, not HS thin (see Casey or Dun). He is bigger than most of the posts on this board give him credit for. Now that I have seen him in action against a great opponent, I am no longer worried about his size. It isn't ideal for our needs, but it is at the very least adequate. Remember, Rivals, ESPN, and Scout won't update his stats until the end of the year, if then. Don't go by their stats.

[RainingThrees]

It seems that if anyone need to hit the weight room before next season its Ryan Kelly, that dude is skinny!!!

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Christ School is so deep, Marshall never gets enough playing time to put up big numbers. I hope he comes to Duke in 2011 and makes a Plumlee trifecta.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

From the article on Christ School's third straight state championship, Mason Plumlee said this

“I couldn't have imagined a better high school career for myself. There's no better feeling than this. All along, winning another state championship was the ultimate goal above anything else.”

First, congratulations to Mason and his teammates! Job well done. And congratulations to Ryan Kelly of (former Duke point guard) Kevin Billerman's Ravenscroft School for getting to the championship game.

But just wait till these guys get to Duke next year and start dreaming bigger. There is no limit to what they can achieve!

[rotogod00]

Just completed:

Q: Mason do you ever talk to any of the current Duke players?

Mason: My brother, obviously. Other than that, probably Nolan the most.

[redacted for copyright violation; see linky]

Q: Mason, in your opinion right now, give me your top 5 teams for next season?

Mason: Us, Kansas, UConn, Michigan State.

Mason: Thanks for the support and questions.