Free throw shooting

[jimmymax]

Sorry not clear I guess: 7/12 = 7th of the 12 ACC teams . . . courtesy of http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskb.../confldrs.html and http://www.theacc.com/sports/w-baskb.../confldrs.html.

Aha, FSU. Thanks. FYI they are #1 at .790.

[dukestheheat]

Ok, before my Duke days, I was a player and I had a 'shot doctor' (guy named Hank Slider) take apart my free throw. He had me shoot about 50 free throws and he sat there and watched everything from my rhythm to get to the line and all things between that and the actual delivery of the shot. I met him at a great basketball camp up in the Pocono Mountains of Pennsylvania my junior year of high school.

Now, it didn't help me as much as I thought it might, as my Duke Intramural team, The Mad Scientists, lost the championship game by 4 points as I missed three free throws going down the stretch!

But here's the deal: Duke struggles at the free throw stripe. A couple narrow losses could have been totally averted if we'd been 'good' up there.

What is done at the collegiate level to help college shooters become dependable at the line? For many Duke players this year in particular, this is a true area for improvement. We are going to need a much better overall performance at the line to be competitive going down the stretch.

What can be done, or is done, to help our guys in this area?

dth.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Good question from heat there. I really think besides the lack of post play, that free throws have been our most glaring weakness. Teams can't be afraid to put us to the line. We took some action tonite to get our post guy some real game time, what do we have for our stripe woes?

[dukestheheat]

Good question from heat there. I really think besides the lack of post play, that free throws have been our most glaring weakness. Teams can't be afraid to put us to the line. We took some action tonite to get our post guy some real game time, what do we have for our stripe woes?

As I remember it, I had a couple issues which prevented a higher percentage at the line.

1) I had a tendency to watch the ball as I released it, instead of watching the 'back part of the rim', as I was eventually instructed to do.
2) Also, every time I shot I put the ball right in front of my face as I was releasing the ball out of my hands. This way, I was also blinding myself to the rim!
3) And, I remember that I had the attitude that this was a contested shot and I was tense as I went up there. I had, for some reason, the same idea about this 'free throw' as I had about coming off of a pick to shoot the 3 ball! I was instructed to so relax up there it isn't even funny, even work to enjoy the break, and realize that those shots were going down! (positive self-talk).

So for me, at least, it was a combination of mental and mechanical issues and when I worked on these, I went from 68% to 84% at the stripe.

?

dukestheheat.

[Verga3]

Perhaps younger players don't see as much value in free throw shooting as in other ways of making points which can be flashier. It takes a lot of practice and discipline to groove accurate foul shooting form so that it truly becomes automatic. Without such dedicated practice which includes the mental side of the shot (concentration, visualization, etc.), there's little chance for developing reliable muscle memory.

Think back to one of Bill Foster's teams known for having a team average of about making about 80% of their free throws. They didn't just develop that after they got to Duke. They built on the skills they already had.

Completely agree. Mechanics are tough (not impossible) to substantially change after many years, but routines, concentration and the whole mental side can really be developed in college.

Also, if we could get Singler on the line (a la Laettner) 200+ times a year, that would help....And incidently, aren't his inside-outside abilities somewhat reminiscent of Laettner's?

[UrinalCake]

People often talk about going to the gym and shooting 1000 free throws in a row as a way to improve their percentages, but in a game you don't get to shoot a bunch of them at one time. You only get to shoot two (or sometimes one, or occasionally three). Then you have to stop and do other things, then a while later you can shoot two more. So shooting a whole bunch in a row doesn't really help because once you get into a rhythm, you're just repeating the motion, but in a game situation you never have a chance to get into that rhythm.

One of the interesting things I've noticed about Nelson is that it seems like he often makes the first free throw, then misses the second. This is really unusual; normally a player will miss the first, then make an adjustment and make the second. Which makes me think his problems are more psychological than mechanical.

[Saratoga2]

People often talk about going to the gym and shooting 1000 free throws in a row as a way to improve their percentages, but in a game you don't get to shoot a bunch of them at one time. You only get to shoot two (or sometimes one, or occasionally three). Then you have to stop and do other things, then a while later you can shoot two more. So shooting a whole bunch in a row doesn't really help because once you get into a rhythm, you're just repeating the motion, but in a game situation you never have a chance to get into that rhythm.

One of the interesting things I've noticed about Nelson is that it seems like he often makes the first free throw, then misses the second. This is really unusual; normally a player will miss the first, then make an adjustment and make the second. Which makes me think his problems are more psychological than mechanical.

I've been watching him for 4 years and I would have thought he misses the first more often and frequently hits the front rim. His shot tends to be flatter than say Scheyer so he needs to be right on to hit. He works so hard out there on defense that maybe he has trouble settling down for his shots.

[BlueDevilBaby]

We used to shoot foul shots one-handed to get better form. We also would stop in the middle of practice for a one-and-one for the wonderful right not to run a suicide. This helped simulate game conditions - being winded, etc. The point about shooting a hundred in a row without simulating game conditions is a good one. I also think routine is greatly underestimated in any sport (e.g., tennis, golf, etc.). I never changed how many times I bounced the tennis ball before I served from the time I started playing until now (and I have a pretty good serve, although rotator cuff surgery has put all tennis on hold) or what I do at the foul line and was more successful than not at putting them down. Finding a routine that works foryou can put you in a mental comfort zone and provides muscle memory. Incidentally, I always looked at the very front of the rim rather than the back. Swish!

[-jk]

I saw a Duke practice once: when the free-throw shooter missed, the rest of the team ran suicides. The shooter got to stand around and think about it.

Peer pressure can be as tough as game pressure.

-jk

[Lauderdevil]

Here's a statistical analysis I'd love to see emerge from the analytic crowd on this board: what NCAA coaching staff provides the most value added when it comes to free throws? I.e., what team's players show the most improvement in free-throw percentage from season to season? Call it the Free Throw Improvement (FTI) index. It would be one measure of how effectively that team coaches players to better performance in this key metric. My sense -- though without having done the analysis, I could well be wrong -- is that this is one of the rare areas where Duke would not rank at or near the top of the college ranks.

[gofurman]

Here's a statistical analysis I'd love to see emerge from the analytic crowd on this board: what NCAA coaching staff provides the most value added when it comes to free throws? I.e., what team's players show the most improvement in free-throw percentage from season to season? Call it the Free Throw Improvement (FTI) index. It would be one measure of how effectively that team coaches players to better performance in this key metric. My sense -- though without having done the analysis, I could well be wrong -- is that this is one of the rare areas where Duke would not rank at or near the top of the college ranks.

FSU - as well documented - hired a free throw coach this year and while they were already good (all guards, swann, rich, douglas...) there % went up some to where they are number one in NCAA or near it...

* I really don't understand why there isn't more of this done or more emphasis on FTs... Think of all the points gained in a season if your team changes from say 65 to 70%. Duke typically takes about 800 FTs . If you up the FT% by 5 percentage points you get 40 free points - that is worth at least 3 maybe 4 wins I bet...

[dukestheheat]

FSU - as well documented - hired a free throw coach this year and while they were already good (all guards, swann, rich, douglas...) there % went up some to where they are number one in NCAA or near it...

* I really don't understand why there isn't more of this done or more emphasis on FTs... Think of all the points gained in a season if your team changes from say 65 to 70%. Duke typically takes about 800 FTs . If you up the FT% by 5 percentage points you get 40 free points - that is worth at least 3 maybe 4 wins I bet...

Shoot, you got kicking coaches in football, why not free throw shooting coaches in college basketball? I could do this I bet you $50 based on what I learned from the whole experience. And, while I got Hank Slider to work over my free throws at the basketball camp, I improved over about a month's time so I don't think it'd take a year to show significant improvemeht. I never think that teaching free throws is silly; the previous poster cites 3 or 4 more wins per year and I agree with that.

dth.

[BD80]

We have 4 coaches with over 50 years of combined experience, all of whom were point guards and good free throw shooters. One is a hall of fame coach. Our staff is the current US Basketball staff. Most years, our teams are among the best in the nation in free throw shooting.

So how in the $^&* can anyone on this board even suggest they could do more than our current staff to improve the team's free throw shooting??? That there is some coaching technique or approach not known to our staff? Unbelievable.

Suggesting that Zoubek or Taylor should play more is one thing, suggesting that one could actually coach better in any aspect than our staff is unbelievable.

Lance, Markie and G shoot 54%, 60%, and 64%. The other 5 are 76% or better. Lance and G will improve. Markie is the real issue.

[heyman25]

De Marcus would add about 5 pts per game to his average if he was a better free throw shooter. He can drive to the hoop,but he does not finish and make the tough shot like Chris Duhon was able to do his senior year. Lance would take more shots if he could convert at the line. It is a problem. Hope it doesn't come back to bite us in the A@#

[fogey]

We have 4 coaches with over 50 years of combined experience, all of whom were point guards and good free throw shooters. One is a hall of fame coach. Our staff is the current US Basketball staff. Most years, our teams are among the best in the nation in free throw shooting.

So how in the $^&* can anyone on this board even suggest they could do more than our current staff to improve the team's free throw shooting??? That there is some coaching technique or approach not known to our staff? Unbelievable.

Suggesting that Zoubek or Taylor should play more is one thing, suggesting that one could actually coach better in any aspect than our staff is unbelievable.

Lance, Markie and G shoot 54%, 60%, and 64%. The other 5 are 76% or better. Lance and G will improve. Markie is the real issue.

While DM's mechanics are somewhat flawed (as many posts on other threads have noted), better % is possible if you give the free throw a better chance by launching with higher arc, and letting the ball "settle" down through the rim. Basic physics confirms that the more vertical the descent of the ball coming at the rim, the more room there is for it to enter the cylinder without striking rim. Flatter shots need to be perfect in distance to avoid front or back rim, very little margin for error, particularly when a shooter is tired, winded, anxious, etc. Great free throw shooters tend to launch the ball up at a higher angle, for a "softer" shot that falls through the rim.

[dukestheheat]

We have 4 coaches with over 50 years of combined experience, all of whom were point guards and good free throw shooters. One is a hall of fame coach. Our staff is the current US Basketball staff. Most years, our teams are among the best in the nation in free throw shooting.

So how in the $^&* can anyone on this board even suggest they could do more than our current staff to improve the team's free throw shooting??? That there is some coaching technique or approach not known to our staff? Unbelievable.

Suggesting that Zoubek or Taylor should play more is one thing, suggesting that one could actually coach better in any aspect than our staff is unbelievable.

Lance, Markie and G shoot 54%, 60%, and 64%. The other 5 are 76% or better. Lance and G will improve. Markie is the real issue.

So, this is one area for improvement, and in this sport as well as in the business world, we work on those areas where we can be stronger. It may not become our greatest strength, but the idea is to find an area where we're not good, and do some basic stuff to make it better, overall. The main focus will always remain on doing what you do best and working to be even better; this case, it's making some changes where we're not strong to drive a team to win a couple more games, notably versus Pittsburgh (one point loss) and versus Miami (another one point loss).

It is said in football that field goal kickers can decide games; we saw this in the Super Bowl this year with the Giant win. The same holds true in basketball, especially at this level, where elite teams decide games by 5 points or less in competitive games!

The simple question is: If 'coaching' was your daily work, what would you do to help improve that? I draw upon my experience and I'm asking at this level (compared to my learning at the chump level) what can coaches do?

This is a basic area for improvement that when improved, gets Duke out of the Elite 8 this year and into the Final Four, where it belongs.

dth.

[captmojo]

While DM's mechanics are somewhat flawed (as many posts on other threads have noted), better % is possible if you give the free throw a better chance by launching with higher arc, and letting the ball "settle" down through the rim. Basic physics confirms that the more vertical the descent of the ball coming at the rim, the more room there is for it to enter the cylinder without striking rim. Flatter shots need to be perfect in distance to avoid front or back rim, very little margin for error, particularly when a shooter is tired, winded, anxious, etc. Great free throw shooters tend to launch the ball up at a higher angle, for a "softer" shot that falls through the rim.

An increase of spin has an influence on "forgiveness" of a slightly indirect aim at the target. More spin will cause the ball to jump off a rim farther away, while less spin (soft shot) is more the variety to rim-bounce closer in on the target with a possibility to eventually drop through the nets.

DeMarcus has large hands that create more distance for the ball to roll across toward the fingertips. This, coupled with short-arming of his shot, (not enough elevation of his hands in follow-through) are making his attempts hard to watch. I say this is hard because his aim is so good. All his misses are hitting the direct back of the rim. He needs his elbow at least level with his nose at release. Either this, or maybe he should consider a jump shot from the line.

[Saratoga2]

While DM's mechanics are somewhat flawed (as many posts on other threads have noted), better % is possible if you give the free throw a better chance by launching with higher arc, and letting the ball "settle" down through the rim. Basic physics confirms that the more vertical the descent of the ball coming at the rim, the more room there is for it to enter the cylinder without striking rim. Flatter shots need to be perfect in distance to avoid front or back rim, very little margin for error, particularly when a shooter is tired, winded, anxious, etc. Great free throw shooters tend to launch the ball up at a higher angle, for a "softer" shot that falls through the rim.

Thie concept of more arc on the ball also applies to outside shots. Melchioni went through bad periods where his shot was very flat and he started missing a lot of his shots. I think he tried more arc but found it hard to make the adjustment that late in his career. DeMarcus also had that habit but he varies and gets more arc on the ball. King has a reputation as being a great shooter but hasn't been hitting well of late. I also note his shot is flattening out lately. It is not that the flat shot can't be made, it is that it has to be more accurate. Larry Bird always put a lot of arc on his shot and he was a great shooter as was the case of Jo Jo White for you older Celtic fans.

[BD80]

Lance, Markie and G shoot 54%, 60%, and 64%. The other 5 are 76% or better. Lance and G will improve. Markie is the real issue.

OK, I may have been wrong, MARKIE CAN SHOOT FREE THROWS1111

I had been commenting that Markie was having a bad game at State, but boy did he step up in crunch time!

[Chard]

Seemed like he was much more deliberate in taking his time at the line. I assume the coaches worked with the team on that.