Hitting "a wall"

[GMR]

Robbie Hummel is a freshman from Purdue that was runner-up for Big 10 player of the year, was All Big 10, and is a Wooden Finalist for Player of the year. He's about 6'8" tall, only averages about 11-12 points per game, but is a good all-around player...defensively, rebounding, 3 point shooting, inside game. He's not a power player.

GMR

[Lauderdevil]

It seems that Singler has recently hit a wall and hopefully the 4 days will rejuvinate him.

The other talented freshmen to wit : Beasley, Mayo, Gordon, Bayliss, Hummell and Love seemed to escape it. Are there any other, talented freshmen who like Singler have had the same experience ?

In addition to playing basketball, Singler has to go to class.

[mgtr]

That is probably a major difference between Duke and some other schools. People at Duke are actually expected to get an education.

[Bluedawg]

Singler has shot 9-50 from behind the line in the last nine games, underscoring the toll that playing out of position has taken on him.

is it playing out of position or the "freshman wall"? I expect he'll bounce back but the stat is interesting.

[NYC Duke Fan]

In addition to playing basketball, Singler has to go to class.

Why do assume that the others don't do to class? Plus Duke has had it share of players who left early...not including Jason Williams or Boozer who got their degrees. The reasons given previously regarding why Singler might have hit a wall have merit...yours don't.

[Saratoga2]

is it playing out of position or the "freshman wall"? I expect he'll bounce back but the stat is interesting.

I am sick of hearing about hitting a wall, as though it is something real. Singler may be hurting from all the pounding he has taken playing out of position, or he may have faced tougher competition and lost a degree of confidence, but hitting a wall is something an outfielder might do. It seems to be something people say when they don't know the real cause of a change in performance.

[MChambers]

I am sick of hearing about hitting a wall, as though it is something real. Singler may be hurting from all the pounding he has taken playing out of position, or he may have faced tougher competition and lost a degree of confidence, but hitting a wall is something an outfielder might do. It seems to be something people say when they don't know the real cause of a change in performance.

is a slump, nothing more and nothing less. Has nothing to do with hitting a figurative wall as a freshman or with guarding people who are heavier than you.

[The Gordog]

Why do assume that the others don't do to class? Plus Duke has had it share of players who left early...not including Jason Williams or Boozer who got their degrees. The reasons given previously regarding why Singler might have hit a wall have merit...yours don't.

Because they don't. For every Duke player that did not go to class (Will Avery is the only one I'm aware of - and that's only hearsay) there are at least 5 at every other hoops power.

[mgtr]

Agreed -- it all has to do with the type of player you recruit, and why you recruit him. It would be interesting to look at where Duke BB players have ended up outside of basketball.

[mapei]

Georgetown players, including all-Big-East (freshmen team) Austin Freeman, definitely go to class. And Freeman, after a terrific early and mid-season, did seem to hit a wall or slump. His shooting %, particularly on 3s, took a nosedive. (He's also been playing out of position, BTW, playing SF at 6'4".)

But lately he seems to have come out of it and has been hitting key shots again. He seems to be fine now.

[Bluedawg]

I am sick of hearing about hitting a wall, as though it is something real. Singler may be hurting from all the pounding he has taken playing out of position, or he may have faced tougher competition and lost a degree of confidence, but hitting a wall is something an outfielder might do. It seems to be something people say when they don't know the real cause of a change in performance.

You will note the term "freshman wall" is in quotes...

[Lauderdevil]

Why do assume that the others don't do to class? Plus Duke has had it share of players who left early...not including Jason Williams or Boozer who got their degrees. The reasons given previously regarding why Singler might have hit a wall have merit...yours don't.

You're being naive about the difference between going to school at Duke and going to many other schools -- and the pressure and time commitment it can bring to bear on a 19-year-old. Being a student at Duke is a full-time endeavor, and the fact that Duke players are able to perform adequately in the classroom given the time commitment basketball requires is remarkable, in my judgment.

If you think it's the same everywhere, you should check out the article just this week in the Chronicle of Higher Education about the "special treatment" of athletes at the University of Michigan -- one of the nation's top public institutions academically. http://chronicle.com/news/article/41...rs-study-finds You'll find the situation to be considerably worse at some schools.

The fact that Duke has had players who have left school to pursue dreams of millions in the NBA (some successfully, some not) isn't responsive to the question of whether they went to class while at Duke. I think it's reasonable to assert that academics place a much higher burden on Duke's players than would be found at many other schools. That's part of the attraction for the right players, but it's still wearing over the course of a long season.

[JG Nothing]

In addition to playing basketball, Singler has to go to class.

For every Duke player that did not go to class (Will Avery is the only one I'm aware of - and that's only hearsay) there are at least 5 at every other hoops power.

It all has to do with the type of player you recruit, and why you recruit him. It would be interesting to look at where Duke BB players have ended up outside of basketball.

Being a student at Duke is a full-time endeavor, and the fact that Duke players are able to perform adequately in the classroom given the time commitment basketball requires is remarkable, in my judgment.

Justified or not, these are the types of comments that contribute to the hatred towards Duke.

[Bluedawg]

It seems that Singler has recently hit a wall and hopefully the 4 days will rejuvinate him.

The other talented freshmen to wit : Beasley, Mayo, Gordon, Bayliss, Hummell and Love seemed to escape it. Are there any other, talented freshmen who like Singler have had the same experience ?

Since losing to Clemson in the ACC semifinals on Saturday, Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski and his staff have emphasized the importance of rest and sleep to a team heavily reliant on freshmen and sophomores. He was the first to admit that freshman forward Kyle Singler was running on fumes in Charlotte.

"Kyle looks tired," Krzyzewski said after the Clemson game. "He's had a lot of pressure -- physical and otherwise -- on him to play at a high level. We need to get him refreshed. His two [ACC Tournament games] were a gallant effort, but you could tell he doesn't have his legs, ... he wasn't fresh."

Caulton Tudor

There is reason to believe that fatigue was a real factor with Kyle.

[greybeard]

Singler has had to operate under a lot of pressure. No, he has had to operate under an unconscionable amount of pressure. Mentally, physically, emotionally; I don't recall a player more at the center of everything a high-end team does than Singler is; and there really is no help from anyone with a lot of it.

If the offense did not work as effectively as it did, then Singler would perhaps have been less central, or might be less central, now that Zoubek is back and able to contribute somewhat (not how he would like). But, with the way that offense works, it seems that so much depends on Singler. So much.

He has been sensational. Whether he can get enough of a second wind at this point is anybody's guess.

Have to say that I have enjoyed watching Duke this year as much as any team I have ever followed. Without Singler, I could not say that. Thanks Kyle, and enjoy the rest of the ride.

[NYC Duke Fan]

You're being naive about the difference between going to school at Duke and going to many other schools -- and the pressure and time commitment it can bring to bear on a 19-year-old. Being a student at Duke is a full-time endeavor, and the fact that Duke players are able to perform adequately in the classroom given the time commitment basketball requires is remarkable, in my judgment.

If you think it's the same everywhere, you should check out the article just this week in the Chronicle of Higher Education about the "special treatment" of athletes at the University of Michigan -- one of the nation's top public institutions academically. http://chronicle.com/news/article/41...rs-study-finds You'll find the situation to be considerably worse at some schools.

The fact that Duke has had players who have left school to pursue dreams of millions in the NBA (some successfully, some not) isn't responsive to the question of whether they went to class while at Duke. I think it's reasonable to assert that academics place a much higher burden on Duke's players than would be found at many other schools. That's part of the attraction for the right players, but it's still wearing over the course of a long season.

Then I guess that if any of the Stanford or Vanderbilt freshmen , " hit a wall",then the same reasoning would have to apply to them.

[dw0827]

Even a casual reading of various threads suggests a fairly common denominator . . . we were a tired team.

First, this is NOT about the flu. That is different. The flu doesn't explain why we didn't do too well down the stretch this season. But posters have suggested that we faltered because we were tired. And they seem to say that we were physically tired.

Let me throw something out there and see how you all respond. Let me suggest that our problems were more about mental exhaustion than physical exhaustion.

This team was, in some respects, flawed (in my opinion) partially due to the lack of a meaningful inside game similar to what we've seen in past years. The coaches and the team did a wonderful job in adapting to the available talent. Different schemes, Phoenix, zone, Scheyer off the bench, small ball, and so on. Personally, I think this was one of Coach K's greatest coaching jobs.

BUT, to succeed, this team had to play well, extremely well. There simply wasn't much margin for error. To play at such a high level for several months, although exhilarating, takes its toll. Mentally. Its hard to stay at one's peak, and maintain that level of emotional intensity, for a sustained period.

Kyle, for example. People talk about him hitting a wall, like Jon last year. Well, is the wall a physical or a mental barrier? I suggest that its a mental barrier. And just as, perhaps, Kyle may have hit the wall, I wonder if the entire team didn't collectively hit the same wall . . . and for the same reasons. Mental and emotional exhaustion.

In the last part of the year, the team made tired mistakes. They did things we didn't see when they were fresh. Defense is as much about intensity and emotion as it is about technique (in my opinion). And our defense late wasn't as good as early. Technique? I don't think so. They're mentally tired. Fried.

Thoughts? Am I way off base here?

[Dukeford]

I agree, there's no way that 19-21 year old kids stay physically tired when they play 1-2 games per week.
I mean come on, these guys will go all day in the summer, I used to play for hours and loved it when I was that age.

I know it's not exactly the same thing, but guys this age don't have "tired legs" when they have had 2 days rest between games.

But yes, I can accept the mental exhaustion possibility

[kinghoops]

Even a casual reading of various threads suggests a fairly common denominator . . . we were a tired team.

First, this is NOT about the flu. That is different. The flu doesn't explain why we didn't do too well down the stretch this season. But posters have suggested that we faltered because we were tired. And they seem to say that we were physically tired.

Let me throw something out there and see how you all respond. Let me suggest that our problems were more about mental exhaustion than physical exhaustion.

This team was, in some respects, flawed (in my opinion) partially due to the lack of a meaningful inside game similar to what we've seen in past years. The coaches and the team did a wonderful job in adapting to the available talent. Different schemes, Phoenix, zone, Scheyer off the bench, small ball, and so on. Personally, I think this was one of Coach K's greatest coaching jobs.

BUT, to succeed, this team had to play well, extremely well. There simply wasn't much margin for error. To play at such a high level for several months, although exhilarating, takes its toll. Mentally. Its hard to stay at one's peak, and maintain that level of emotional intensity, for a sustained period.

Kyle, for example. People talk about him hitting a wall, like Jon last year. Well, is the wall a physical or a mental barrier? I suggest that its a mental barrier. And just as, perhaps, Kyle may have hit the wall, I wonder if the entire team didn't collectively hit the same wall . . . and for the same reasons. Mental and emotional exhaustion.

In the last part of the year, the team made tired mistakes. They did things we didn't see when they were fresh. Defense is as much about intensity and emotion as it is about technique (in my opinion). And our defense late wasn't as good as early. Technique? I don't think so. They're mentally tired. Fried.

Thoughts? Am I way off base here?

actually, i dont think you are off base at all, i think it is a combination of physical and mental. like i stated in another thread, i think the final 5 mins of the carolina home game took all the wind out of our sails.

[SoCalDukeFan]

I hope that the staff does not just chalk this up to the flu.

As I posted on the other thread, last year's team lost their last four games.

I think some of it can be attributed to a more physical style of play being allowed and Duke not having the players or preparation for it. I could be completely off base.

In the past we seemed to peak in March/April now its Dec/Jan.

SoCal