How can the Terps win when it's 8 on 5?

[SharkD]

I agree, Gist just ran over Scheyer to get that rebound, and I thought that was what got Coach upset. But the broadcasters frequently can hear the actual complaint, so maybe he was complaining about a goaltend (which it wasn't), not the foul.

I think Brando was paying more attention to making sure that everyone knew that he got to introduce Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal (who's already off to an ethically-questionable start) at his inauguration than paying attention to the basketball game. Besides, according to Tim, when you're at your homecourt, you should get a little leeway on what constitutes a mugging.

[vango]

Did anyone else catch the apparent cheap shop by Vasquez to the kidney of Singler during stopped play? It was Greivis...

I believe it was ~5 min remaining in the game, after Singler returned to the court with 4 fouls. Play was stopped and teams were setting for an in-bounds play on the Duke offensive end. Vasquez appeared to look around and then give a closed-fist sucker punch in the lower back of Singler (near the bottom of the TV screen). It was not hard enough to be an attempt to injure, but deliberate enough to be an attempt to incite Singler to retaliate. I had to rewind and replay several times to determine if I was seeing things (I was not).

I don't know. Must not have been much to it if Singler ignored it. I took it as more of an "atta boy."

I'm not a big fan of that kid as I'm not much of a fan of any hot dog - but he doesn't strike me as that kind of player. But I'm not in the kids head.

[sagegrouse]

I blame the Terp loss on those guys on the bench who don't play. I couldn't tell what it was, but judging by the way their "coach" was berating them the whole game they must have done something pretty awful.

Really classic.

Where did Gary learn this form of psychology? What professional told him that a good use of his time is yelling at bench players during the game?

sagegrouse

[wilson]

Wait a second. DOES Maryland have a greater basketball history? Sure, Maryland had that national title back when I was a younger man, but how many final fours have they been to in the last five years? I know Mason's been to one.

They did have the Driesell years. He didn't quite turn them into "the UCLA of the east," but they were pretty good for a while there. And anyway, what does Lefty know of predictions? He went to Duke.

[sagegrouse]

The best true rival opportunities for Maryland would have to be Georgetown or George Mason, assuming that Mason could keep up the level of performance they've demonstrated the last five years or so. Of course, with Mason, Maryland would be the big baddy with the larger basketball history of success. I'd love to see how they'd react to being on the Duke end of a "rivalry" for once. Without their raging inferiority complex, what would they really have?

Commentators here and elsewhere have noted that the top women's bball teams play every year while the men's teams shun each like they have the ebola virus.

Does anyone have any doubt about the three reasons for this? Money. Money. Money. The top women's teams fill their arenas only for the big games among Duke, UConn, Tenn, etc.

The top men's team sell out against SUNY Albany, East Tennessee, the Ivy League, and anyone. Why should they schedule a non-conference local rival? didn't the Kentucky legislature compel that UK and Louisville play?

Also, to be fair, the conference play is really tough in the ACC, increasingly in the SEC and, if the teams actually played each other, in the Big East. And I don't want to slight the Big Ten, Big 12, and PAC Ten.

FWIW, there could be an awesome series of rivalries in the DC metro area (beginning with Maryland, Georgetown and George Mason) that would excite the local fans and sell out a bunch of games. It would probably become better than the big five rivalry in Philadelphia.

Don't expect it to happen, though. Maryland refuses to schedule Georgetown unless it's a home game because some supposed agreement back during the Left-Big John area. But frankly, I don't think either team wants to put its local reputation at risk, much less endanger it with an upstart like Mason.

sagegrouse
'My favorite patsy story: A reported asked Billy Tubbs of OU what he said to the opposing coach after beating his team by 80 points. "Can you come back next year?" said Billy.'

[kdevilsk212]

Funny, when you said we'd only gotten jobbed one time, I knew exactly what game you were talking about before you said it.

We also got jobbed royally in the ACC title game against Maryland. I remember at one point, a ref actually helped John Gilchrist up from the floor. And said (you could hear it on the TV audio), "You're showing up well today baby."

I'd also say that Carlos Boozer was HACKED on the potential putback against Indiana in the NCAA tourney. Those are most memorable episodes for me.

While I do think that what comes around generally goes around, there are moments when a team is coming back against Duke in a critical game and the refs get caught up in the excitement. It's human nature I suppose... I think that in close big games refs should swallow their whistles (especially on the charge v. block call.) It's just seems so arbitrary sometimes.

[TravisMcGee]

Maryland won't play Georgetown as long as Williams is the head coach -- he claims that Georgetown doesn't play nicely with their scheduling and therefore he has no interest in playing them, or inviting them to the annual BB&T Classic.

Maryland is also unlikely to play GW again, unless in a tournament; Williams made comments about how unfair it was that a lesser team like GW got a huge boost simply by beating his team and that he felt Maryland had nothing to gain and everything to lose by playing such poor quality opponents simply for the sake of placating DC-area fans and ADs. (Translation -- the Terps won't slum it anymore by playing teams who can beat them.)

So, now that another 'lowly' DC team has bruised Gary's pride by being all uppity and not respecting the 'talent' of the Terps by graciously rolling over, I wouldn't be shocked if Gary doesn't return the Eagles' phone calls for a few years. Lord knows, the loss couldn't have possibly resulted from Gary's coaching or his team's play.

50 year old Terp fan here -- no flames intended:

I'm not here to defend Gary -- this is your forum, but please consider....

Maryland/Gary doesn't run the BBT, I think John Feinstein does. I have heard him on the radio saying that Georgetown has been invited but has never had any interest in participating. I think Feinstein's dream was to create a tournament similar to what used to be in place up in Philly -- The Big Five.

I have also heard Gary mention (though carefully not sighting this as THE reason they don't play - wink wink) that the last time MD played Georgetown it was on Gtown's home floor at the Capital Centre and we are due the next home game. Fair?

As for GWU, I think you are right about Gary's comments about the "big boost." But I think you are leaving out his complaint that the losses to GWU have always come on the second day of the BBT. Most years MD would play the tougher first round game and then have to play a tough and motivated GWU the next night and he felt that it was unfair.

Lastly, I highly doubt that Gary will stop scheduling American as they were the school that gave him his first HC job. I have heard NOTHING about taking them off the schedule.

I hope GW67 reads this thread and adds his 2 cents...

Anyway, all of this is a shade of gray and I'm sure the truth lies somewhere between your opinion and mine.

Good luck and thanks for letting me chime in.

[JasonEvans]

50 year old Terp fan here -- no flames intended:

I'm not here to defend Gary -- this is your forum, but please consider....

Maryland/Gary doesn't run the BBT, I think John Feinstein does. I have heard him on the radio saying that Georgetown has been invited but has never had any interest in participating. I think Feinstein's dream was to create a tournament similar to what used to be in place up in Philly -- The Big Four.

I have also heard Gary mention (though carefully not sighting this as THE reason they don't play - wink wink) that the last time MD played Georgetown it was on Gtown's home floor at the Capital Centre and we are due the next home game. Fair?

As for GWU, I think you are right about Gary's comments about the "big boost." But I think you are leaving out his complaint that the losses to GWU have always come on the second day of the BBT. Most years MD would play the tougher first round game and then have to play a tough and motivated GWU the next night and he felt that it was unfair.

Lastly, I highly doubt that Gary will stop scheduling American as they were the school that gave him his first HC job. I have heard NOTHING about taking them off the schedule.

I hope GW67 reads this thread and adds his 2 cents...

Anyway, all of this is a shade of gray and I'm sure the truth lies somewhere between your opinion and mine.

Good luck and thanks for letting me chime in.

Always good to have comments from reasonable and though-provoking rival fans. Thanks!

-Jason

[Indoor66]

50 year old Terp fan here -- no flames intended:

I'm not here to defend Gary -- this is your forum, but please consider....

Maryland/Gary doesn't run the BBT, I think John Feinstein does. I have heard him on the radio saying that Georgetown has been invited but has never had any interest in participating. I think Feinstein's dream was to create a tournament similar to what used to be in place up in Philly -- The Big Five.

I have also heard Gary mention (though carefully not sighting this as THE reason they don't play - wink wink) that the last time MD played Georgetown it was on Gtown's home floor at the Capital Centre and we are due the next home game. Fair?

As for GWU, I think you are right about Gary's comments about the "big boost." But I think you are leaving out his complaint that the losses to GWU have always come on the second day of the BBT. Most years MD would play the tougher first round game and then have to play a tough and motivated GWU the next night and he felt that it was unfair.

Lastly, I highly doubt that Gary will stop scheduling American as they were the school that gave him his first HC job. I have heard NOTHING about taking them off the schedule.

I hope GW67 reads this thread and adds his 2 cents...

Anyway, all of this is a shade of gray and I'm sure the truth lies somewhere between your opinion and mine.

Good luck and thanks for letting me chime in.

I know Travis McGee and you are no John D. McDonald!

[Jessica5]

A few of this year's Kville residents and I journeyed up to College Park for the game, and we were really surprised at things we saw. They threw things at Duke fans, they drank their airline sized bottles of liquor, they made fun of Shane Battier (???), they left comcast with lots of time left to play (5 minutes was the first group to leave), and their student section was REALLY boring and had to be told to make noise through the game - even when we were shooting free throws.

Every out of bounds call apparently should have gone to them! Any call that went our way was a flop! Every questionable no call was a conspiracy!

and even with our serious foul trouble, Duke got ALLLL the calls.

Terp on.

Tent 1 will blog about the rest of the trip soon.

- Jessica -

[TravisMcGee]

I know Travis McGee and you are no John D. McDonald!

Not in my wildest dreams. I'm just an average schlepper with two kids and a mortgage

[Indoor66]

Not in my wildest dreams. I'm just an average schlepper with two kids and a mortgage

Welcome to the Board. We like everyone ... almost.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

Welcome to the board and do please stick around. It's great to get the perspective from fans of other teams, especially when they are as civil and insightful as yours seems to be.

[Billy Dat]

I haven't been around the board long enough to know if this has been debated ad nauseum, but in reading some of those posts in this topic, how can we honestly say that Maryland isn't one of our major rivals? I graduated from Trinity in 1994 and was not a big Duke fan growing up so my frame of reference is really 1986 - present, but within that window, there are only 4 teams that I truly despise in the following order; UNC, UConn, Maryland and Michigan. Kentucky is close. After a great run with Michigan through the mid 1990s, that rivalry has waned (should heat back up). We only get to play UConn on the biggest of stages so we can't count on those games. That leaves UNC and Maryland. I circle all 4 games on the calendar every year. The ACC saw fit to make sure we are in the same schedule "pod" se we play 2x year. Last night's game had my heart pounding, I was throwing/kicking things more then usual, etc. I know we may not want to give the Maryland fans the satisfaction of being acknowledged rivals, but, come on, they clearly are.

[dukerev]

Billy Dat - I agree with you that the Terps are rivals. But... (there's always a "but" isn't there?)

To wit: like you, I enjoy beating Maryland more than other teams that we play and hate losing to Maryland more than most of the teams that we play (all a matter of perspective as I enjoy most every win and dislike most every loss). For example, last night's win was somehow more satisfying to me (as a fan) than the win against Clemson. No real reason for it other than the fact that I dislike Maryland more. Obviously there's some history behind that.

However: while Maryland is A rival, we are THE rival for them. There is a disparity between the intensity of the rivalry for their fans (and team) and our fans (and team, I think). THE rival for us is obviously UNC. It always has been and always will be. There have been, are, and will be times in our history when a Maryland or a Kentucky or a (fill-in-the-blank) rises up and becomes more of a rival than other schools. But THE rivalry for us will always be Carolina. I think (at least as long as G.Williams is at Maryland) Duke will be THE rival for them.

In short, there's rivalries and there's rivalries. Maryland is the former for us.

[bjornolf]

Unfortunately, I did not record it. IIRC, it was just under 5min remaining. Vasquez is shown, fairly close up, walking from right to left on screen, and as he passes Singler, he hits him. The hit falls off the bottom of the screen as the camera pans, and happens pretty quickly. If you blink, you'll miss. Anyone else see this and note the time? Or better yet, post the video?

It's at EXACTLY the 16:39 mark in the second half. GP misses a layup over Osby, the rebound pops around a little and GP knocks it away from Osby, and then GP knocks it off Vasquez's foot out of bounds. The clock stops at 16:39. Vasquez walks into the lane across the back of Singler and pops him a little one. It's a little harder than I thought it was, but it is RIGHT in the center of his back, NOT near the kidneys, and I really do think it is more of a tap than a cheap shot, but I'll let you be the judge. My TiVo says it's 1:30 into the game, but I'm sure everyone's TiVo is a little different on start and stop times. Hope this helps.

[Highlander]

50 year old Terp fan here -- no flames intended:

I'm not here to defend Gary -- this is your forum, but please consider....

Maryland/Gary doesn't run the BBT, I think John Feinstein does. I have heard him on the radio saying that Georgetown has been invited but has never had any interest in participating. I think Feinstein's dream was to create a tournament similar to what used to be in place up in Philly -- The Big Five.

I have also heard Gary mention (though carefully not sighting this as THE reason they don't play - wink wink) that the last time MD played Georgetown it was on Gtown's home floor at the Capital Centre and we are due the next home game. Fair?

As for GWU, I think you are right about Gary's comments about the "big boost." But I think you are leaving out his complaint that the losses to GWU have always come on the second day of the BBT. Most years MD would play the tougher first round game and then have to play a tough and motivated GWU the next night and he felt that it was unfair.

Lastly, I highly doubt that Gary will stop scheduling American as they were the school that gave him his first HC job. I have heard NOTHING about taking them off the schedule.

I hope GW67 reads this thread and adds his 2 cents...

Anyway, all of this is a shade of gray and I'm sure the truth lies somewhere between your opinion and mine.

Good luck and thanks for letting me chime in.

Reminds me of Jim Valvano's rules for scheduling:
1) Never play teams from your state that aren't in your conference. You have enough enemies already, and these are no-win games for you.
2) Don't play teams with "State" in their names that aren't actually states. Examples include Ball State, Alcorn State, Fayetteville State, etc.
3) Do play teams whose name is a state. Examples include Kentucky, Florida, Oklahoma, Texas, etc.

Seems to me like Gary follows rule 1).

[SharkD]

Maryland/Gary doesn't run the BBT, I think John Feinstein does. I have heard him on the radio saying that Georgetown has been invited but has never had any interest in participating. I think Feinstein's dream was to create a tournament similar to what used to be in place up in Philly -- The Big Five.

I have also heard Gary mention (though carefully not sighting this as THE reason they don't play - wink wink) that the last time MD played Georgetown it was on Gtown's home floor at the Capital Centre and we are due the next home game. Fair?

As for GWU, I think you are right about Gary's comments about the "big boost." But I think you are leaving out his complaint that the losses to GWU have always come on the second day of the BBT. Most years MD would play the tougher first round game and then have to play a tough and motivated GWU the next night and he felt that it was unfair.

Lastly, I highly doubt that Gary will stop scheduling American as they were the school that gave him his first HC job. I have heard NOTHING about taking them off the schedule.

Good luck and thanks for letting me chime in.

Travis,

Opposing fans are always welcome at the DBR, especially when they have constructive comments (even if critical).

I'll admit, I was being a little hyperbolic and I had completely forgotten that AU was Gary's first job.

I guess I question how someone, like a Gary Williams, who seems to understand the game so well, almost always seems to fall short. And then, I'm irked by his knee-jerk tendency to find a scapegoat for why his team was cheated out of a win/title/etc.

Williams has fielded consistently good, but inconsistent teams. The teams which have achieved great things (like his national title) have done so on the backs of one or two outstanding players, but seemingly little teamwork. It seems that Maryland often rises to the challenge for emotionally-charged games, but comes off as flat-footed against non-conference teams and squads with little history of a rivalry with the Terps. (It also bothers me that the emphasis for student-athletes on the Terps' squads seem to ignore the former, while excelling at the latter -- Steve Blake being a prime example.)

[/rant][/histrionics]

[diesel]

I haven't been around the board long enough to know if this has been debated ad nauseum, but in reading some of those posts in this topic, how can we honestly say that Maryland isn't one of our major rivals? I graduated from Trinity in 1994 and was not a big Duke fan growing up so my frame of reference is really 1986 - present, but within that window, there are only 4 teams that I truly despise in the following order; UNC, UConn, Maryland and Michigan. Kentucky is close. After a great run with Michigan through the mid 1990s, that rivalry has waned (should heat back up). We only get to play UConn on the biggest of stages so we can't count on those games. That leaves UNC and Maryland. I circle all 4 games on the calendar every year. The ACC saw fit to make sure we are in the same schedule "pod" se we play 2x year. Last night's game had my heart pounding, I was throwing/kicking things more then usual, etc. I know we may not want to give the Maryland fans the satisfaction of being acknowledged rivals, but, come on, they clearly are.

You weren't introduced to irony while you were at Trinity, Billy Dat? From what SharkD says, I might have expected the definition to be lost on Steve Blake, but on someone from Trinity?

Which reminds about a question I need to ask. How much damage was done at College Park after the Terps lost last night? Isn't it traditional for them to burn down some private or public property in frustration after they lose to Duke? Wasn't that what those leaving early from the student seats were heading off to do? There are sore losers and then there are fire losers.

[MChambers]

Travis,
Williams has fielded consistently good, but inconsistent teams. The teams which have achieved great things (like his national title) have done so on the backs of one or two outstanding players, but seemingly little teamwork.
[/rant][/histrionics]

Gee, I think the 2002 team had five good, not great players. It's not like Blake, Dixon, Wilcox, Mouton, or Baxter has set the world on fire since college. And I think that team had good teamwork.
Not that I'm a Maryland fan, mind you.