How can the Terps win when it's 8 on 5?

[bjornolf]

I've been listening to the Maryland postgame up here on the radio and watching on the TV, and everybody from fans to the sports anchors have been terping that the Terps got jobbed by the refs. Comments of "how can we win when it's 8 on 5, particularly in the last five minutes?" abound.

I'm just a poor football player who's only played pickup basketball since my high school days, and I'm admittedly biased. Can some of the more objective members here tell me what I missed? Duke had 3 more fouls than the terps but took 2 more foul shots (although 8 of those FTs came on the 4 clock stopping fouls in the last minute). I tried to rewatch the last minutes objectively, but I hardly saw anything blatant in the last five minutes.

On a similar note:
CSN here showed Gary's entire press conference. Here is a paraphrasing of Gary's comments after the game:

The first thing he talked about was rebounding in the second half being key. Said they had a big advantage in the first half, but that Duke evened it up in the second half.

Mentioned that the Terps had great energy in first half but dropped off in second half.
Said that they were still in it with 4 minutes left with a chance to win, and what more could you want?
Mentioned that Duke got possessions they shouldn't have gotten, but later said it was due to loose balls and rebounding.

When asked about the turnovers and what Duke did to them defensively, he said:
"Same they've done to all the league teams they've played. Overplay. Uh. Lot of contact when you go down the middle and, uh, you turn the ball over." I thought that was a little bit of a barb at Duke and the refs, but hey, what do I know.

Asked about the effort as compared to how they played against UNC: He said the Terps played as well as they did against UNC, shooting 54% against the No. 3 team in the country. I only heard him mention UNC a few times, and all but one of those times were answering direct questions from the media.

When asked what they can take from this game, he said that they weren't taking anything from this game. They just wanted to get ready for Virginia. He said that didn't want to say "oh gee, we played great" against two top 5 teams in a week, they wanted to BE one of those top 5 teams. THAT'S what they're playing and fighting for. To get back there.

I could do a word-for-word transcript for you guys, but I don't know if that would be legal. Maybe the DBR gods can let me know.

[Devilsfan]

Maryland played great but remember they had the home court advantage. And there fans didn't even throw water bottles at the Duke parents. What's this world coming to?

[itsmoney13]

Nothing new from the fans or the coach. They lost, Duke won. There has to be a reason other than they were outplayed. They apparently still buy into the "Duke gets all the calls" myth. Like you pointed out, Duke was called for more fouls than them, so in their minds it's not that they were called for less fouls, it's the actual calls Duke did or didn't get that influenced the outcome of the game. Unreal. Duke scored more than them, if they had not, everyone would be talking about how Maryland played a great game. Instead Duke wins and they cry woe is me.

It'll be a long long time before this whole Duke-Ref movement goes away. But as long as it's out there it means Duke is still winning big games, which is what most people on this board hope for.

If next time these 2 teams play MD wins, it'll mean they scored more points plain and simple. Duke did tonight and it's more than they can handle up there inside the beltway. Love to see it.

GTHC!GTH!!!!

[bjornolf]

It's funny. I've been watching Duke b-ball since spring 1993 when I got accepted to Duke. I've seen my share of Duke losses, and while I've complained about individual calls MANY times, I've only said the refs jobbed us or it was 8 on 5 one time, and that was the UConn championship game. And I'm sorry, but when a nun with NO connection to Duke, not knowing I'm a Dukie, says that Duke got it from the refs, I'm not gonna argue. I guess I just feel sorry for the terps. It seems to me that terping on and on about the zebras rather than reveling in the gutty performace by their team seems to rob them of dignity. That's just my take.

[SeattleIrish]

I went to the terp board and read through the game thread; while there were some posts "terping" about the refs, there were just as many saying it had nothing to do with the refs and was about poor judgement and turnovers by the terps.

The only consistent whining was about the OB calls in the last 5 minutes.

s.i.

[KenTankerous]

As a Kentucky fan, I used to buy into the Duke gets the calls, Coach K works the refs myths. But as I have been watching more Duke games (my lady is a Duke girl) I see nothing to support these notions. In fact, if anything, the opposite is true and last night was no exception.

Why was Krzyzewski T'ed up for complaining about the lack of a goal tending call yet Williams is allowed to carp (or is that "terp") all night to the officials? I actually feel a little sorry for Greg Paulus after watching the way he gets bumped, shoved and generally picked on by everybody. And can someone please explain charging versus blocking? I mean, I've played organized and pick up ball my whole life - I AM from Kentucky, it's required - and I cannot for the life of me figure out why they call one versus the other any more. But it seems to me, when it is close, Duke never gets those calls.

I think the root of all this is the fact that everyone always brings their A game against Duke, players and fans. As was pointed out, did you hear that crowd last night? And when you elevate your game to it's best and still fall short, it can't possibly be fair, right?

[CDu]

We did get away with a few pretty bad out of bounds calls late in the game. Other than that, though, I thought it was pretty even. They missed some calls in our favor, and missed some in Maryland's favor.

[Tom B.]

We did get away with a few pretty bad out of bounds calls late in the game. Other than that, though, I thought it was pretty even. They missed some calls in our favor, and missed some in Maryland's favor.

Scheyer got raked across the arm while going to the basket on one of those calls, though, so at least that one was a wash -- or maybe even an advantage to Maryland, as the correct call would've put a very good free throw shooter on the line (high likelihood of points for us), instead of just giving us the ball (lower likelihood of points).

[heath_harshman4]

We did get away with a few pretty bad out of bounds calls late in the game. Other than that, though, I thought it was pretty even. They missed some calls in our favor, and missed some in Maryland's favor.

yea, but i didn't hear the UM fans complaining about the refs when we had some of our top guys in fould trouble on BS calls in the first half when they were up by nine...

[loran16]

As a Kentucky fan, I used to buy into the Duke gets the calls, Coach K works the refs myths. But as I have been watching more Duke games (my lady is a Duke girl) I see nothing to support these notions. In fact, if anything, the opposite is true and last night was no exception.

Why was Krzyzewski T'ed up for complaining about the lack of a goal tending call yet Williams is allowed to carp (or is that "terp") all night to the officials?

Home court, plain and simple. If the game's at cameron the Ts would go the other way around, though i still think they wouldnt have given one to either coach.

But at Md, obviously it's going to be against Duke the Technical.

Meh, no harm no foul, you should expect that in road games.

[Matches]

I blame the Terp loss on those guys on the bench who don't play. I couldn't tell what it was, but judging by the way their "coach" was berating them the whole game they must have done something pretty awful.

[DukeDevil]

I blame the Terp loss on those guys on the bench who don't play. I couldn't tell what it was, but judging by the way their "coach" was berating them the whole game they must have done something pretty awful.

I literally laughed and snorted to this.

Shweet!

[freedevil]

I blame the Terp loss on those guys on the bench who don't play. I couldn't tell what it was, but judging by the way their "coach" was berating them the whole game they must have done something pretty awful.

AWESOME post.

[CMS2478]

I blame the Terp loss on those guys on the bench who don't play. I couldn't tell what it was, but judging by the way their "coach" was berating them the whole game they must have done something pretty awful.

Shouldn't he be yelling at the ones who ACTUALLY play!!!

[sagegrouse]

I blame the Terp loss on those guys on the bench who don't play. I couldn't tell what it was, but judging by the way their "coach" was berating them the whole game they must have done something pretty awful.

Really classic.

Where did Gary learn this form of psychology? What professional told him that a good use of his time is yelling at bench players during the game?

sagegrouse

[Saratoga2]

As a Kentucky fan, I used to buy into the Duke gets the calls, Coach K works the refs myths. But as I have been watching more Duke games (my lady is a Duke girl) I see nothing to support these notions. In fact, if anything, the opposite is true and last night was no exception.

Why was Krzyzewski T'ed up for complaining about the lack of a goal tending call yet Williams is allowed to carp (or is that "terp") all night to the officials? I actually feel a little sorry for Greg Paulus after watching the way he gets bumped, shoved and generally picked on by everybody. And can someone please explain charging versus blocking? I mean, I've played organized and pick up ball my whole life - I AM from Kentucky, it's required - and I cannot for the life of me figure out why they call one versus the other any more. But it seems to me, when it is close, Duke never gets those calls.

I think the root of all this is the fact that everyone always brings their A game against Duke, players and fans. As was pointed out, did you hear that crowd last night? And when you elevate your game to it's best and still fall short, it can't possibly be fair, right?

I have been a big Duke fan for many years, even though not a graduate. I like the way the coach stays above the terping and the players play hard, clean basketball. As far as last night, I thought Gist and Osby were throwing themselves into our players and getting the calls. I think the lack of a goal tending call that coach K complained about was legitimate and should have been called. That said, I didn't really think the game was called that unfairly. Perhaps refs sometimes get caught up in all of the crowd emotion, but by and large they do their jobs pretty well. We won by out toughing Maryland in the second half.

[JasonEvans]

I am trying to decide which of the following is the best post in this thread so far... it is not an easy choice. Do you go for great humor or real, objective insight?

I blame the Terp loss on those guys on the bench who don't play. I couldn't tell what it was, but judging by the way their "coach" was berating them the whole game they must have done something pretty awful.

As a Kentucky fan, I used to buy into the Duke gets the calls, Coach K works the refs myths. But as I have been watching more Duke games (my lady is a Duke girl) I see nothing to support these notions. In fact, if anything, the opposite is true and last night was no exception.

Why was Krzyzewski T'ed up for complaining about the lack of a goal tending call yet Williams is allowed to carp (or is that "terp") all night to the officials? I actually feel a little sorry for Greg Paulus after watching the way he gets bumped, shoved and generally picked on by everybody. And can someone please explain charging versus blocking? I mean, I've played organized and pick up ball my whole life - I AM from Kentucky, it's required - and I cannot for the life of me figure out why they call one versus the other any more. But it seems to me, when it is close, Duke never gets those calls.

I think the root of all this is the fact that everyone always brings their A game against Duke, players and fans. As was pointed out, did you hear that crowd last night? And when you elevate your game to it's best and still fall short, it can't possibly be fair, right?

--Jason "great work KenTank and Matches... keep it up!" Evans

[Highlander]

It's funny. I've been watching Duke b-ball since spring 1993 when I got accepted to Duke. I've seen my share of Duke losses, and while I've complained about individual calls MANY times, I've only said the refs jobbed us or it was 8 on 5 one time, and that was the UConn championship game. And I'm sorry, but when a nun with NO connection to Duke, not knowing I'm a Dukie, says that Duke got it from the refs, I'm not gonna argue. I guess I just feel sorry for the terps. It seems to me that terping on and on about the zebras rather than reveling in the gutty performace by their team seems to rob them of dignity. That's just my take.

Funny, when you said we'd only gotten jobbed one time, I knew exactly what game you were talking about before you said it.

[kdevilsk212]

Funny, when you said we'd only gotten jobbed one time, I knew exactly what game you were talking about before you said it.

We also got jobbed royally in the ACC title game against Maryland. I remember at one point, a ref actually helped John Gilchrist up from the floor. And said (you could hear it on the TV audio), "You're showing up well today baby."

I'd also say that Carlos Boozer was HACKED on the potential putback against Indiana in the NCAA tourney. Those are most memorable episodes for me.

While I do think that what comes around generally goes around, there are moments when a team is coming back against Duke in a critical game and the refs get caught up in the excitement. It's human nature I suppose... I think that in close big games refs should swallow their whistles (especially on the charge v. block call.) It's just seems so arbitrary sometimes.

[Carlos]

It's funny. I've been watching Duke b-ball since spring 1993 when I got accepted to Duke. I've seen my share of Duke losses, and while I've complained about individual calls MANY times, I've only said the refs jobbed us or it was 8 on 5 one time, and that was the UConn championship game.

Do mean the UConn semi-final game in 2004 or the championship game in 1999?

WRT to the technical, I'm actually not sure if K wanted the goaltending call there. I agree with SharkD in thinking K wanted a foul called on Gist who clearly pushed Scheyer in the back, sending him flying under the basket and allowing Gist to get the rebound tip-in.

Did anyone else catch the apparent cheap shop by Vasquez to the kidney of Singler during stopped play? It was Greivis...

I believe it was ~5 min remaining in the game, after Singler returned to the court with 4 fouls. Play was stopped and teams were setting for an in-bounds play on the Duke offensive end. Vasquez appeared to look around and then give a closed-fist sucker punch in the lower back of Singler (near the bottom of the TV screen). It was not hard enough to be an attempt to injure, but deliberate enough to be an attempt to incite Singler to retaliate. I had to rewind and replay several times to determine if I was seeing things (I was not).

I've looked for this and can't see any indication of it. Could you check and see exactly when it was?