JJ Redick playing time/roster issues

[_Gary]

Now that the NBA season is nearing the halfway mark, I think we can all finally agree that JJ is not going to succeed in Orlando under Van Gundy. He's firmly entrenched as the 11th or 12th guy off the bench and there's just no way he's going anywhere on this team. I haven't heard a peep about him in some time and I'm wondering two things:

1) Has anyone heard any substantial trade talks that would send JJ somewhere else?

2) Has anyone heard how JJ's demeanor is at this point?

I'm sure he has to be terribly disappointed by now. He went from supposedly vying for a starting position on the team in the pre-season to sitting way down the bench. I still believe there's a spot he can fill on an NBA team, but it just isn't going to happen in Orlando under SVG. I liken his situation somewhat to Dunleavy's when he was in GS. The circumstances are not exactly alike, I know. But in the same way Mike needed a change of scenery to prosper, JJ does too. I hope it happens for him because he is one of my favorite Dukies of all time.


Gary

[freedevil]

This is the most recent thing I could find on JJ, from the Orlando Sentinel: basically, that if a team wants him, they could probably get him.

As for his demeanor, apparently a few days later he put on a shooting clinic before a game in Denver. Just went nuts from behind the 3.

[Mudge]

This is the most recent thing I could find on JJ, from the Orlando Sentinel: basically, that if a team wants him, they could probably get him.

As for his demeanor, apparently a few days later he put on a shooting clinic before a game in Denver. Just went nuts from behind the 3.

Redick's demeanor was as positive as could be today, for a player who didn't play--he was among those Orlando bench players in warmup suits who ran out joyfully onto the court with huge smiles on their faces, to congratulate Hedo Turkoglu for hitting the game winning shot as time expired against the Celtics.

I am a huge fan of Redick, but if it is true that Redick doesn't play because the Magic already have 6'10" Turkoglu (as someone noted above) at small forward, you have to ask yourself the question: Could Redick have taken the ball one-on-one, dribbled away from a double-team, and then turned and hit that 3-point shot from well behind the arc, with 6'8" Paul Pierce in his face trying to deny the shot, as Turkoglu did today? That's a pretty tall order (pun intended), and that doesn't even get into defensive discussions.

I watched a recent Sports Science show that showed how tiny differences in reaction time make huge differences in athletes' ability to make cuts and elude/get away from opposing players; a difference of a few hundreths of a second translates into several feet of separation... if you think about this, all these articles talking about Redick having to "improve his defence" are basically wasted words, as he is not going to somehow develop better fundamentals that allow him to stay in front of guys that are just fractionally quicker than him-- he is the defensive player that he is going to be.

My question is, how is that guys like Mark Price and John and Jim Paxson, and Steve Kerr could fill this outside shooting role without being quick enough to guard opposing guards? Kerr played 15 years in the NBA with less size and no better quickness or shooting accuracy than Redick has-- was it just that he had the good fortune to spend most of that time on teams with Jordan and Duncan, who drew constant double teams-- and if that is the case, why isn't Dwight Howard's presence enough to open things up enough to justify Redick's presence? I know they say the other Orlando guards are better defensively, but I have a hard time believing they match Redick offensively-- and even with Pippen, Jordan, and Rodman on the same team, Kerr had to guard somebody-- how come he wasn't similarly glued to the Bulls bench?

[MikeS]

Redick wouldn't have to pull up right in front of Pierce, he would have just pulled back to about 6 feet behind the three point line and then drain it.

[Mudge]

Redick wouldn't have to pull up right in front of Pierce, he would have just pulled back to about 6 feet behind the three point line and then drain it.

Maybe in college, but the NBA line is a good 4 feet further out (23 ft. vs. 19 ft.), to begin with, and if you saw it, Turkoglu was probably a couple of feet behind the line, so he was probably in the vicinity of what you describe, and he still had a 6'8", very athletic, NBA All-Star jumping in his face-- I'm not sure if even Redick would succeed against that obstacle course.

[_Gary]

JJ, at this point in his career, wouldn't be put in the same spot Turk was. No way would he be expected to go one on one against anyone (much less a stud like Pierce) with the game clock winding down. So the entire comparison is unfair and unrealistic. But JJ can be a contributor on the right team. I'm just completely convinced Orlando is NOT that team, just as I was years ago when I saw Dunleavy struggling in Golden State. Many differences, I know. But some similarities too. Redick just needs a change of scenery at this point.


Gary

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Maybe it's time for JJ to play overseas for a few years. Then he might make it back to the NBA some day. Playing abroad is better than sitting on the bench in Orlando.

Look at the success Trajan Langdon is having overseas.

[JBDuke]

Those of you wondering what's up with JJ's minutes just need to take a look at the Orlando Magic roster from last year vs. this year.

Last year, the principle starters were: Howard, Battie, Turkoglu, Grant, and Nelson. Players averaging more than 20 mins a game included Ariza, Milicic, and Dooling. Of all 8 listed, only Turkoglu was a legit 3-point jump shooting threat. Nelson wasn't horrible, but 33.5% isn't going to win any shooting contests. Over 82 games, the entire team attempted 962 3-pointers. If JJ had been healthy through the summer and fall and been prepared to contribute right away, I'm guessing he would have had a chance, because they desperately needed another deep threat.

Now, let's look at this year. The starters are Howard, Turkoglu, Lewis, Nelson, and Bogans. Players getting more than 20 mins a game include Evans and Arroyo. Turkoglu, Lewis, and Bogans are ALL shooting better than 37% from the bonusphere. Nelson is up to 35% and Evans (33%) and Arroyo (34%) are doing okay from long distance. Through 45 games - just over half the season - the team has already attempted 1,114 3's!

Now, where can JJ bust into that rotation? JJ hasn't shown that he's so great a shooter at the pro level that he demands playing time over Bogans, and Bogans (and Evans, too) is considerably bigger AND more athletic than JJ, can score in more ways, and is a better defensive player.

In short, in one year and without changing addresses, JJ has gone from a team which really could have used him, if he had been healthy and ready to go, to a team that has a surfeit of the one thing JJ does really well. Add to this that Orlando is 28-18, in first place in the Southeast and third overall in the Eastern Conference, and there's little motivation to look for a change.

Unless things change radically in Orlando - like Bogans getting hurt (not that I'd wish that on anybody) - I don't see JJ getting much of a chance to showcase his skills this season. If Orlando is committed long-term to Turkoglu and Lewis, which they appear to be, JJ would appear to be trade bait.

Think what JJ could do for the Heat, who are really missing Jason Kapono, or in Philly, where the Sixers are shooting 32% as a team and only Louis Williams is over 34%.

[BobbyFan]

My question is, how is that guys like Mark Price and John and Jim Paxson, and Steve Kerr could fill this outside shooting role without being quick enough to guard opposing guards? Kerr played 15 years in the NBA with less size and no better quickness or shooting accuracy than Redick has...

Price, Kerr, and John Paxson were all good to excellent ball-handlers, which allowed them to play PG. If Kerr and Paxson had been subpar at handling the ball, they wouldn't have been NBA players. Price was on a whole different level and was also a fantastic passer. And being defended by smaller players allowed Price and Kerr to take better advantage of their shooting abilities than Redick can against taller SGs.

And you are underrating Kerr's defense; he actually was a decent on-ball defender. Also, his height relative to other PGs was less limiting than Redick's to other SGs.

[jzp5079]

to answer your question, he is on the trading block, but orlando has said they won't trade him unless they get a good piece in return. They consider him a nice asset... The league is short on shooters.

They are trying to get him moved by the trade deadline but it might not happen.

[Dukiedevil]

I'd like to see him in Cleveland, Houston or LA (Lakers).

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mul...ontent.10.html

[Uncle Drew]

Price, Kerr, and John Paxson were all good to excellent ball-handlers, which allowed them to play PG. If Kerr and Paxson had been subpar at handling the ball, they wouldn't have been NBA players. Price was on a whole different level and was also a fantastic passer. And being defended by smaller players allowed Price and Kerr to take better advantage of their shooting abilities than Redick can against taller SGs.

And you are underrating Kerr's defense; he actually was a decent on-ball defender. Also, his height relative to other PGs was less limiting than Redick's to other SGs.

I wouldn't have considered Paxon and Kerr true point guards. But the Bulls had the ball In Jordan's hands so much any true point on that team wouldn't get the assists they would on another team. Truth be told IMO if you had put JJ in the same role as Kerr or Paxon on those Bulls squads he'd be doing just as well if not better. Jordan would drive in, draw a triple or double team and kick it out. Paxon and Kerr were WIDE open the vast majority of 3's they took. No one outside of Kobe or Lebron draws as much attention to leave a three point shooter open in todays NBA game.

That being said I think JJ and Sheldon are both in bad situations. Sheldon was drafted by a team with a glut of power forwards. He hasn't played poorly when inserted into the game, but those opportunities have been for very, very few minutes per game. A trade to a team that actually has a need at power forward (which team I have no idea) would be great for him. At the same time a trade to a team that needs a 3 point threat would be great for JJ. But I have a feeling both teams are content to leave both players at the end of the bench as back up plans should someone ahead of them get injured.

[Indoor66]

I wouldn't have considered Paxon and Kerr true point guards. But the Bulls had the ball In Jordan's hands so much any true point on that team wouldn't get the assists they would on another team. Truth be told IMO if you had put JJ in the same role as Kerr or Paxon on those Bulls squads he'd be doing just as well if not better. Jordan would drive in, draw a triple or double team and kick it out. Paxon and Kerr were WIDE open the vast majority of 3's they took. No one outside of Kobe or Lebron draws as much attention to leave a three point shooter open in todays NBA game.

That being said I think JJ and Sheldon are both in bad situations. Sheldon was drafted by a team with a glut of power forwards. He hasn't played poorly when inserted into the game, but those opportunities have been for very, very few minutes per game. A trade to a team that actually has a need at power forward (which team I have no idea) would be great for him. At the same time a trade to a team that needs a 3 point threat would be great for JJ. But I have a feeling both teams are content to leave both players at the end of the bench as back up plans should someone ahead of them get injured.

Miami could use them both.

[heavy g]

I love JJ and respect his immense talents. However, he will probably never make it in the NBA. He's slow, and always has been. He has overcome it to a large degree, but not in the NBA. You can't hang if all you can do is shoot in that league. Being undersized means you have to be faster than the people around you. JJ never will.

Kerr/Paxson were considerably faster on D, and I think the speed of the game has only increased since their time.

I hope I am dead wrong.

Shelden, on the other hand, will blossom as soon as he is in the right situation. He is a unique player/body who needs a unique opportunity.

[Devils8780]

Similar to Kerr / Paxson with the Bulls, I believe Redick needs the PERFECT situation to succeed in the NBA. As it was mentioned on this thread, he needs the opportunity to shoot spot-up 3's, likely coming off passes from double-teamed teammates.

All players have strengths and weaknesses, but aside from his shot, there's nothing about Redick's game that says NBA. I realized this watching a random Duke game his sophomore year. To think otherwise simply equates to a case of denial.

However, I do believe that there are certain environments where that one and only skill can be exploited. I immediately think of Boston, but wherever it is, it'd have to be a loaded team with multiple players who regularly draw double-teams.

[lazee]

Looks to be staying put for the time being, although things can change if the right deal comes along.

http://forums.floridatoday.com/viewtopic.php?t=69333

Representatives for J.J. Redick have repeatedly approached the Orlando Magic about a trade that could provide the seldom-used shooting guard more playing time, but general manager Otis Smith said there are no plans to move Redick anytime soon.

``We know that he can play, but as with a lot of young guys he just has to be patient,’’ said Smith, who drafted Redick 11th overall in the 2006 NBA Draft. ``If I trade him and he goes somewhere else and plays well, then what?

Van Gundy said he has conversations with his assistant coaches on a daily basis asking, `Should we be playing him?’ as it relates to Redick. He said Redick’s ardent practice habits and how he’s responded when put in games has made it difficult to keep Redick on the bench.

``I think about him all the time and he makes you think about him with the way he practices,’’ Van Gundy said. ``I know he’s really frustrated because there’s not much more he can do. He plays well out here in practice and when we give him chances in games he’s played well. That’s a frustrating thing, but he has to keep doing what he’s doing. It’s not a negative thing with him. I know he can help us and I’m sure he will.’’

[Clipsfan]

All players have strengths and weaknesses, but aside from his shot, there's nothing about Redick's game that says NBA. I realized this watching a random Duke game his sophomore year. To think otherwise simply equates to a case of denial.

I'm not sure that I disagree that Redick's only NBA attribute is his shooting, but saying that you realized this during his sophomore year weakens your argument, IMHO. He drastically changed his body/game between his sophomore year and his senior year.

[wilson]

The Van Gundy quotes are heartening. Clearly it's not just a case of "Coach and Player don't get along." If JJ is working and a relatively respected coach like SVG recognizes his potential to contribute in the long run, I'm hopeful that he'll get that chance.

[juise]

Here are JJ's thoughts from two weeks ago.

[_Gary]

Here are JJ's thoughts from two weeks ago.

You have to really feel for JJ. And I feel SVG is being completely truthful with his comments as well. It's not like last year when I really did think the coach was the problem with JJ not getting a shot. I believe Van Gundy, in his heart, would like to play JJ but his team is doing well enough that he just doesn't feel justified in shaking the rotation up that much. JJ has just been caught, as I said early this year, in a bad spot where several different factors have kinda conspired against him. And those factors are out of his control. I do believe he could play a good 10 to 15 minutes a game, but it's very hard to keep other guys off the floor. So the only logical thing to do is trade the guy, Orlando. Don't keep him on the bench as just an insurance policy in case another guy goes down. That's really not fair to him, even though I can't begrudge the organization for such thinking.

And Shelden is pretty much in the same situation. He could benefit from a change of scenery as well.


Gary