Olek Czyz, Tyrus Thomas comparison...?

[Madrasdukie]

I was comparing Olek's game to that of Tyrus Thomas' (in college). For those who have seen Olek play and / know more about his game, I wonder what you might think of the comparison.

Here are some things that came to mind:

Leaping ability:
Rebounding
Blocking
Dunking

Shooting:
Nothing of note (except Olek seems to be a better free throw shooter).

Passing:
?

Ball handling:
?

Basketball IQ:
?

Potential to grow:
High

Work Ethic:
High (perhaps higher for Olek).

Low ranking coming out of high school.

[DavidBenAkiva]

I think that may be a fair comparison to make. Thomas has not seemed to develop his shot the way that Czyz has. I don't think that Thomas took many jump shots in (one year of) college, which is something that he is working on still in the NBA. His big contribution seems to be understanding his role, help defense, knowing where he and his teammates are on the floor, and being ridiculously athletic. Seriously, Tyrus Thomas can jump.

From what I've seen of Czyz, he may be a higher-thought-of recruit than Thomas. Louisville, Florida, and Kentucky were all talking with him, am I right? Who knows what is going to happen, but I think that this new up-tempo style of offense and defense might suit Czyz very well. At the very least, he is an intriguing prospect. Most of the time, we hear a lot about a player before they arrive on campus. I haven't seen much written about the kid and only watched some highlight videos on youtube. I am interested to watch him in a Duke uniform.

Time flies like an arrow
Fruit flies like a banana

[dkbaseball]

I live in Reno and have seen him play twice now. I want to see him once or twice more before filing a scouting report. I'll just say for now that the comparisons of his athlecticism to anybody's are apt (though I'm not prepared to say yet on blocked shots). This will be one of the most interesting prospects ever to come to Duke. Tyrus Thomas with better coordination and a fantastic work ethic.

[Taco]

How do you pronounce Czyz? Sizz? Kiz? Shiss? Shiz?

[dkbaseball]

How do you pronounce Czyz? Sizz? Kiz? Shiss? Shiz?

None of the above. Chiz.

[Taco]

Sheesh. Good thing I asked.

[Ignatius07]

I'll just say for now that the comparisons of his athlecticism to anybody's are apt

I should preface this by saying I have never seen Czyz play, but I have not read anything to suggest his athleticism is in Tyrus Thomas's range. Thomas has SERIOUS athleticism (sorry to give anybody nightmares of 06). From what I understand, Czyz is a very good leaper, but not necessarily extraordinarily athletic in other regards. Perhaps watzone or somebody else can elucidate us.

[dkbaseball]

I should preface this by saying I have never seen Czyz play, but I have not read anything to suggest his athleticism is in Tyrus Thomas's range. Thomas has SERIOUS athleticism (sorry to give anybody nightmares of 06). From what I understand, Czyz is a very good leaper, but not necessarily extraordinarily athletic in other regards. Perhaps watzone or somebody else can elucidate us.

He is the best raw athlete I have ever seen at the high school level. I saw Grant Hill play many times in high school, also Allan Iverson, Kobe and several other top NBA stars as high school players, in person. Maybe I'm BSing myself -- he is going up against weak opposition -- but there is no denying that he is throwing the ball down at the rim with either hand from about a foot and a half above it, that he has superb body control, glides effortlessly down the court, and has excellent lateral quickness.

[jimsumner]

I'm sorry but this is the kind of thread that just drives me nuts. Olek Czyz is a consensus top-75 recruit with a lot of potential. But Thomas was the 4th pick in the 2006 NBA draft after two years in college. Why do we keep doing this? I still have people complain to me that Zoubek was supposed to have been the next Gminski and he's not and they're outraged.

We compare Henderson to Grant Hill and Singler to Larry Bird and Paulus to Bobby Hurley and McRoberts to Christian Laettner and then we're upset when they fail to reach somebody else's ridiculous expectations.

So, let's lower the expectation ceiling a bit here folks and just let Czyz be the best Czyz he can be.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

So, let's lower the expectation ceiling a bit here folks and just let Czyz be the best Czyz he can be.

I agree with you Jim, but Wojo did say that Czyz has some serious athleticism. Or should that be athleticizm?

[CDu]

I haven't seen Czyz play, other than the highlight reel someone put up on this board a few days ago (maybe a week or two ago?). So, I can't say with any confidence one way or the other. However, from what I saw of Czyz (not much as described above) and from what I've seen of Thomas (quite a bit of his college time and much of his NBA career), I'd be VERY surprised if Czyz is similar in athleticism to Thomas.

Thomas was a complete freak athletically. He had extremely long arms and could jump REALLY high. He was also very explosive. More than that, though, his athleticism was combined with fantastic timing. Some players just have the gift of knowing when to jump to block shots. And remember - Thomas was drafted almost exclusively on his athleticism, because he had basically zero basketball skills other than jumping high, running fast, and having good timing on blocks.

That's not to say that Czyz won't be a fantastic athlete. There's a LOT of room to be an amazing athlete and be less athletic than Thomas. Few on the planet are in Thomas' category in terms of pure athleticism.

[dkbaseball]

I'm sorry but this is the kind of thread that just drives me nuts. Olek Czyz is a consensus top-75 recruit with a lot of potential. But Thomas was the 4th pick in the 2006 NBA draft after two years in college. Why do we keep doing this? I still have people complain to me that Zoubek was supposed to have been the next Gminski and he's not and they're outraged.

We compare Henderson to Grant Hill and Singler to Larry Bird and Paulus to Bobby Hurley and McRoberts to Christian Laettner and then we're upset when they fail to reach somebody else's ridiculous expectations.

So, let's lower the expectation ceiling a bit here folks and just let Czyz be the best Czyz he can be.

Maybe people didn't read what I said. I am watching him with my own two eyes. I have been evaluating athletes in different sports for almost 50 years, and I think I'm entitled to my opinion. I have consistently overrated Duke signees I have seen play in the past, and when I file a report on Czyz in a week or so there will be full disclosure. But I'm telling you now: Get excited about this guy. He is one explosive package.

[Madrasdukie]

I'm sorry but this is the kind of thread that just drives me nuts. Olek Czyz is a consensus top-75 recruit with a lot of potential. But Thomas was the 4th pick in the 2006 NBA draft after two years in college. Why do we keep doing this? So, let's lower the expectation ceiling a bit here folks and just let Czyz be the best Czyz he can be.

Having started the thread, I can say that I wouldn't in the least bit be disappointed if Czyz does not become a Thomas, there was no assertion that he probably will.

Their profile coming out of high school (Thomas seemed to have been a 3 star recruit according to Scout: http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=915788) seemed somewhat similar and hence the question.

[jimsumner]

dkbaseball,

You're one of my favorite posters here. I hope you are right about Czyz and look forward to hearing more about him. I'm not sure why you would think we don't respect your right to have an opinion.

My concerns aren't so much with Czyz as with the tendency of fans to overstate the abilities of incoming recruits by comparing them with immortals. This is not an exclusively Duke phenomena of course. How many "next Michael Jordans" have the light blue guys down the road gone through?

But when people convince themselves that Brian Zoubek is a Mike Gminski clone--not one of Howard Garfinkel's better days, IMO--then they're doing a disservice to Zoubek and setting themselves up for disappointment and disillusionment.

Given how well the current Duke team is doing and given how bright the future looks, I am astonished and perplexed by the negativity that permeates much of this board and other Duke boards. I think this is one of the reasons why. Why focus on the good things that Paulus, or Thomas, or Zoubek is doing when it is clear than none of them are going to be as good as some thought they would be when they were reading threads like this two, three four years ago?

So by all means let's talk about Czyz and Williams but without raising expectations so high that they can't be reasonably met.

[Madrasdukie]

I live in Reno and have seen him play twice now. I want to see him once or twice more before filing a scouting report. I'll just say for now that the comparisons of his athlecticism to anybody's are apt (though I'm not prepared to say yet on blocked shots). This will be one of the most interesting prospects ever to come to Duke. Tyrus Thomas with better coordination and a fantastic work ethic.

He is the best raw athlete I have ever seen at the high school level. I saw Grant Hill play many times in high school, also Allan Iverson, Kobe and several other top NBA stars as high school players, in person. Maybe I'm BSing myself -- he is going up against weak opposition -- but there is no denying that he is throwing the ball down at the rim with either hand from about a foot and a half above it, that he has superb body control, glides effortlessly down the court, and has excellent lateral quickness.

Thanks for the feed back. And look forward to your report.

[Madrasdukie]

dkbaseball,

My concerns aren't so much with Czyz as with the tendency of fans to overstate the abilities of incoming recruits by comparing them with immortals.
Given how well the current Duke team is doing and given how bright the future looks, I am astonished and perplexed by the negativity that permeates much of this board and other Duke boards. I think this is one of the reasons why. Why focus on the good things that Paulus, or Thomas, or Zoubek is doing when it is clear than none of them are going to be as good as some thought they would be when they were reading threads like this two, three four years ago?

Your concern is valid but inappropriate in the context of this thread. You seem to have misinterpreted the intent. You have no idea how much I enjoy watching this years team play.

[Madrasdukie]

I think that may be a fair comparison to make. Thomas has not seemed to develop his shot the way that Czyz has. I don't think that Thomas took many jump shots in (one year of) college, which is something that he is working on still in the NBA. His big contribution seems to be understanding his role, help defense, knowing where he and his teammates are on the floor, and being ridiculously athletic. Seriously, Tyrus Thomas can jump.

From what I've seen of Czyz, he may be a higher-thought-of recruit than Thomas. Louisville, Florida, and Kentucky were all talking with him, am I right? Who knows what is going to happen, but I think that this new up-tempo style of offense and defense might suit Czyz very well. At the very least, he is an intriguing prospect. Most of the time, we hear a lot about a player before they arrive on campus. I haven't seen much written about the kid and only watched some highlight videos on youtube. I am interested to watch him in a Duke uniform.

Yes, I agree. I was thinking along the same lines. I wonder to what extent Olek's skill set will influence our defense esp. post defense and rebounding ability.

[dkbaseball]

dkbaseball,

You're one of my favorite posters here. I hope you are right about Czyz and look forward to hearing more about him. I'm not sure why you would think we don't respect your right to have an opinion.

My concerns aren't so much with Czyz as with the tendency of fans to overstate the abilities of incoming recruits by comparing them with immortals. This is not an exclusively Duke phenomena of course. How many "next Michael Jordans" have the light blue guys down the road gone through?

But when people convince themselves that Brian Zoubek is a Mike Gminski clone--not one of Howard Garfinkel's better days, IMO--then they're doing a disservice to Zoubek and setting themselves up for disappointment and disillusionment.

Given how well the current Duke team is doing and given how bright the future looks, I am astonished and perplexed by the negativity that permeates much of this board and other Duke boards. I think this is one of the reasons why. Why focus on the good things that Paulus, or Thomas, or Zoubek is doing when it is clear than none of them are going to be as good as some thought they would be when they were reading threads like this two, three four years ago?

So by all means let's talk about Czyz and Williams but without raising expectations so high that they can't be reasonably met.

Yeah, I take your point, Jim. I just think that once you've seen a player a few times and are ready to evaluate him, making comparisons from a tools standpoint to other players is one way of communicating what you see. I assume it goes without saying that players have to do it on the court, and having similarities to others isn't the same as actually doing it, which has a lot to do with such things as desire, being in the right program, confidence and so forth. I realize, however, that doesn't always go without saying.

So, while I'm sympathetic to the task you have of keeping expectations reasonable, I give fair warning: Brace yourself to work overtime on this one. The comparison that's tentatively suggesting itself is much more outrageous than Thomas. It's Len Bias. Maybe I'll cool off after seeing him a couple more games, but I really, really like this guy's potential.

[MChambers]

DKBaseball, don't take this critically, but I share Jim's concern. How about simply saying that Czyz has a lot of athleticism and is exactly the kind of recruit we haven't had that much recently (not highly rated, but very athletic)?
Will Czyz Czyzl?

[captmojo]

I know a guy named Chis...short for Chismon. I think he has a 2 inch vertical.