Kenny Boynton recruitment

[texas]

bummer. i thought he was due in austin texas today for his official visit. i was hoping he'd go texas or duke. good luck to the young man.

[quickgtp]

Yep he's a Gator. I wish him luck but I still do not get the fact that he didn't even take the official visit to Duke. Kenny, IMO, is just looking for a one year stop. He probably knew he wouldn't get the opportunity to do that at Duke. All in all, I hate to miss out on a kid with that talent, but hey, let's continue building around the solid core we have!

[mgtr]

I know nothing about Kenny Boynton other than what I have read on this board. All in all, he seems to be a good kid (but, still a kid). He might have been a good fit for Duke, or not. What we don't need is a young man who is more interrested in his career than the Duke team. As I recall, we had such a fellow for two years recently, and it didn't work out all that well for any of the concerned parties.
If a young man comes to Duke and after one year has improved so much that he thinks he is ready for the NBA (Luol Deng comes to mind), that is one thing. But if a player's entire interest in a college "career" is in increasing his net present value, then I would say pass.
There probably aren't whole lot of college coaches who would share this view.

[fogey]

I'm sure KB is a great talent, and while our staff must hate to lose him after investing heavily in his recruitment, they also have to have some mixed feelings about a true "one and done" coming to DU. Seems to me there is unavoidable conflict between his need to audition for the NBA and the team's need to harness that talent and integrate him into our unselfish system. Learning curve is not instant (check with Olek) and our three and four year players could find his temporary presence distracting or indeed disruptive.

Not that KS didn't fare well with Beasley, but DU system under Coach K is not the same.

I also believe we will be in good shape next year without him, with terrific experience and talent in the backcourt.

[roywhite]

Seems to me KB was more of a "nice to have this guy" recruit than a "need to have this guy" recruit. A 2009-10 backcourt of Nolan Smith, Jon Scheyer, Elliot Williams, and perhaps Marty Pocious looks like a very strong group. That's without Gerald Henderson, and an early jump to the NBA is not a sure thing.

Wish KB well and will follow his progress.

I wonder if we are done recruiting for the 2009 class?

[heyman25]

I wonder if there will be a spring surprise in finding a guard to add to Plumlee and Kelly's class.We shouldn't take anyone in case Brandon Knight may be interested for 2010.

[Devilsfan]

A previous thread said that they never felt Wall fit Coach K's character requirements. And Chris Paul does? I remember watching his antics. Punching a Pack player in the groin while standing next to him, etc. K's a general plus and can control almost anyone (except free spirits like McRob). I don't think he would be a problem and we haven't had a jet at guard since W. Avery. It would be nice to see a Knicks' type push the ball up the court offense.

[3rd Dukie]

Seems to me KB was more of a "nice to have this guy" recruit than a "need to have this guy" recruit. A 2009-10 backcourt of Nolan Smith, Jon Scheyer, Elliot Williams, and perhaps Marty Pocious looks like a very strong group. That's without Gerald Henderson, and an early jump to the NBA is not a sure thing.

Wish KB well and will follow his progress.

I wonder if we are done recruiting for the 2009 class?

Good call, Roy. I may be too old school ( or maybe just too old), but the last few weeks or so gave me an uneasy feeling about Boynton. No facts to support. Just an uneasy feeling lately.

[jipops]

Seems to me KB was more of a "nice to have this guy" recruit than a "need to have this guy" recruit. A 2009-10 backcourt of Nolan Smith, Jon Scheyer, Elliot Williams, and perhaps Marty Pocious looks like a very strong group. That's without Gerald Henderson, and an early jump to the NBA is not a sure thing.

Wish KB well and will follow his progress.

I wonder if we are done recruiting for the 2009 class?

I'm on board with this as well though I think it would be false hope to think Gerald is around next year.

In 2009-10 we'll have a fantastic, experienced back court. Think about it- two guys with excellent pg skills, three potential defensive stalwarts, and at worst two very reliable 3-point shooters. Join that with the girth in the front court we'll have available and this still looks like a championship contender. Sure Kenny would have been a nice addition but adding a strictly shoot-first 6-2 guard to an already talented, experienced back court would have been quite a challenge as well.

It's not like Kenny would have been in the same situation as Jason Williams was as a freshman coming to Duke. Jason was given complete control of the reins from day one out of necessity. Kenny was going to take a backseat for atleast his freshmen season. At UF that may not be the case.

[ACCBBallFan]

Seems to me KB was more of a "nice to have this guy" recruit than a "need to have this guy" recruit. A 2009-10 backcourt of Nolan Smith, Jon Scheyer, Elliot Williams, and perhaps Marty Pocious looks like a very strong group. That's without Gerald Henderson, and an early jump to the NBA is not a sure thing.

Wish KB well and will follow his progress.

I wonder if we are done recruiting for the 2009 class?

Does not hurt to at least go through the motions and do due dilligence on Wall, local guy, #1 and all that.

In 2009-2010, without KB or Wall, Duke still has enough guards, the four you mention, to play a more traditional set with a bigger SF @ 3 if G is gone (perhaps Kyle if he stays) and a PF @4 rather than either/or at the 4 and two combos at the 2/3.

Might only be for that one season while Z and Lance are still on board if they improve this year and next, with both Plumlees, Kelly and possibly Kyle.

Then see who is on board in 2010 to help Thornton and Dawkins (Marty and Jon will be hoistory but Nolan/Elliott may stick around) get up to speed and decide alignment based on roster depth.

[BlueintheFace]

Have you heard from anyone in a position to know that we are going after Wall?

Yes, His name is John. John Wall.

Duke has been calling my coaches and sending me letters. They are trying to get in there and I am looking at them a little,”

- John Wall

[BlueintheFace]

are you John McCain or something? lol.

"i heard Kyle Singler shaved his head must be associated with a gang"

Perhaps you just aren't as "street" as me haha... or maybe you need to do a little hw

Rumored gang involvement + three symmetrical eyebrow cuts (sign of the bloods) = Bad News. It doesn't really matter what political figure you are. That being said, I have no evidence. I am just saying that these are the kind of rumors that should raise eyebrows in the recruiting process.

[yancem]

Tough break! I hate to see us loose out on such a special talent but I've been feeling like we wouldn't sign him for a while now. As for the Jason Williams comparison, I've been Vacillating between thinking he would be the next William or maybe the next Dajuan Wagner. Looking at video clips his game is very reminiscent of Williams but his high scoring and number of shots reminds me a little of Wagner. Obviously if he ended up more like Williams, then I'm sad he went to UF. But if he ends up more like Wagner, then I'm not terrible disappointed.

On another note, he makes at least the fourth top recruit to make a decision before his official visit. I know that he has been to Duke several times so an official probably wasn't necessary but this seems to be a weird trend. Is it a trend nationally or is it just a Duke phenomena?

[El_Diablo]

This may just sound like sour grapes, but I'm okay with this development. I really am. I didn't want to say this earlier, but I've never been sold on his team-first attitude. I saw him play only one game in person...he was a good shooter (a little slow on the release IMO) and great at getting to the rim though, so he definitely would have been an asset for the Devils. But this isn't as bad as it may seem.

Someone who says he only wants to go someplace "not where they want me...they have to need me" (paraphrased from an early interview that I can't find now) probably wouldn't be a perfect fit at Duke in the first place. Duke doesn't need him, and he probably wouldn't have been the sole focus of the offense in Durham. So I wish him the best of luck in his traveling NBA scouting tour--I mean, his freshman year at UF--next year.

Now let's be happy with the players who DID choose to come to Duke for 2009 and 2010 already!

[SilkyJ]

Good call, Roy. I may be too old school ( or maybe just too old), but the last few weeks or so gave me an uneasy feeling about Boynton. No facts to support. Just an uneasy feeling lately.

i also had this feeling. mine was based more on hearing about him going to gainesville multiple times for multiple football games in the past couple months... Now that doesn't tell you everything cause it happens to be close by, but still that only reinforces the fact that his family and others can come all the time and watch him...not to mention UF florida games are pretty fun...

Perhaps you just aren't as "street" as me haha... or maybe you need to do a little hw

Rumored gang involvement + three symmetrical eyebrow cuts (sign of the bloods) = Bad News. It doesn't really matter what political figure you are. That being said, I have no evidence. I am just saying that these are the kind of rumors that should raise eyebrows in the recruiting process.

No you are totally right and I totally agreed with your first posts. more importantly, you ran off a list of several things and duke really rarely goes after a guy with that kind of list of problems, even if they are all minor in magnitude, b/c that tends to indicate a pattern of behavior.

That said, word on the street seems to be that he's matured and gotten rid of some of those problems. I remain a tad skeptical, but totally trust the judgment of the gentleman from West Point.

On another note, he makes at least the fourth top recruit to make a decision before his official visit. I know that he has been to Duke several times so an official probably wasn't necessary but this seems to be a weird trend. Is it a trend nationally or is it just a Duke phenomena?

I just think people are trying to build hype b/c hype and brands sell. If you can make yourself into a household name as an athlete, you become a brand.

So if you believe that you have to believe that schools are at least occasionally going to be used by recruits to hype themselves, and obviously, the top schools are the most vulnerable to that. That isn't to say KB did it, I doubt he did, though I'm sure he took advantage of the process itself as he should, as long as he was honest and not deceptive (which, again, I don't believe he was). I don't know the full story but Patterson seems to be a different story...


ALLLLLL that said, looking forward to several good years with the plumleeS, kelly, hairston, thornotn, dawkins, elliot, and nolan and maybe even kyle. remember guys, he's only a sophomore. and we still plan on signing a couple more guys for 2010, and maybe even '09. Both the present and the future are bright.

[Jumbo]

I don't have time to read through all the messages here (and this response isn't directed at anyone in particular), but I have a few thoughts.

1) I think it's natural to be disappointed when a kid chooses another school over Duke. What's not fair is to blast Boynton over his decision. I know most of you understand this, but Duke isn't everyone's dream school. It's not the right fit for everyone. To fault the kid or even insinuate that he made a mistake is wrong.

2) The fact that Duke has landed Dawkins, Hairston, Thornton and Kelly in recent months is evidence that Boynton's decision isn't part of some larger "trend." So, the frustration should be contained to the fact that Duke didn't get Boynton, and nothing larger.

3) Because Thornton and Dawkins arrive in 2010, and because Boynton is potentially a one-and-done player, this is basically a one-year issue.

4) If Gerald Henderson comes back next season, this decision is largely meaningless. Duke, obviously, would be incredibly fortunate to have Smith, Scheyer and Henderson for another year, with Williams and possibly Pocius off the bench. I don't expect Henderson to return, but stranger things have happened.

5) If Henderson leaves, this stings a bit, but is not a deal-breaker. Assuming Elliot Williams progresses, Duke should still have a strong perimeter trio. And you'd hope that Marty, as a fifth-year senior, could contribute off the bench. Pure guard depth would be somewhat of an issue.

6) In the event that both Henderson AND Pocius leave, this stings a lot more. That would leave on three pure guards on the roster, increasing the likelihood of having to play Singler at the 3. That's not the worst thing in the world, but it would leave Duke short-handed.

7) There's an even worse-case scenario, where Duke loses Henderson, Pocius AND Singler. But it's absolutely pointless to think about that right now. In theory, everyone could get hurt, too. More than half the team, it seems like, has been rumored to be on the verge of a transfer or headed to the NBA at some point.

8) I think the best course of action is to focus on how exciting this season should be, hope there aren't many backcourt defections after the season and maybe wonder if K will actively pursue a backup plan between now and the spring.

It's a bit frustrating, but in the overall scheme of things, this shouldn't be a big deal. And as far as recruiting misses go, this isn't even close to the most frustrating.

[moonpie23]

dissapointed, but wish him well....i mean...well enough for him to be one and done with FLA...

[MChambers]

I don't have time to read through all the messages here (and this response isn't directed at anyone in particular), but I have a few thoughts.

1) I think it's natural to be disappointed when a kid chooses another school over Duke. What's not fair is to blast Boynton over his decision. I know most of you understand this, but Duke isn't everyone's dream school. It's not the right fit for everyone. To fault the kid or even insinuate that he made a mistake is wrong.

2) The fact that Duke has landed Dawkins, Hairston, Thornton and Kelly in recent months is evidence that Boynton's decision isn't part of some larger "trend." So, the frustration should be contained to the fact that Duke didn't get Boynton, and nothing larger.

3) Because Thornton and Dawkins arrive in 2010, and because Boynton is potentially a one-and-done player, this is basically a one-year issue.

4) If Gerald Henderson comes back next season, this decision is largely meaningless. Duke, obviously, would be incredibly fortunate to have Smith, Scheyer and Henderson for another year, with Williams and possibly Pocius off the bench. I don't expect Henderson to return, but stranger things have happened.

5) If Henderson leaves, this stings a bit, but is not a deal-breaker. Assuming Elliot Williams progresses, Duke should still have a strong perimeter trio. And you'd hope that Marty, as a fifth-year senior, could contribute off the bench. Pure guard depth would be somewhat of an issue.

6) In the event that both Henderson AND Pocius leave, this stings a lot more. That would leave on three pure guards on the roster, increasing the likelihood of having to play Singler at the 3. That's not the worst thing in the world, but it would leave Duke short-handed.

7) There's an even worse-case scenario, where Duke loses Henderson, Pocius AND Singler. But it's absolutely pointless to think about that right now. In theory, everyone could get hurt, too. More than half the team, it seems like, has been rumored to be on the verge of a transfer or headed to the NBA at some point.

8) I think the best course of action is to focus on how exciting this season should be, hope there aren't many backcourt defections after the season and maybe wonder if K will actively pursue a backup plan between now and the spring.

It's a bit frustrating, but in the overall scheme of things, this shouldn't be a big deal. And as far as recruiting misses go, this isn't even close to the most frustrating.

I'd also add that we were all pretty down when Greg Monroe chose Georgetown last year, and we ended up getting Miles Plumlee. I'm not saying Miles is Monroe's equal (I'm not saying he's not, either, only time will tell), but these things have a way of working out. Maybe there is some very talented guard who wasn't interested in Duke, because of the crowded backcourt situation, who now does the math and realizes he could earn some playing time next year at the best basketball program in the nation.

[Diddy]

I don't have time to read through all the messages here (and this response isn't directed at anyone in particular), but I have a few thoughts.

1) I think it's natural to be disappointed when a kid chooses another school over Duke. What's not fair is to blast Boynton over his decision. I know most of you understand this, but Duke isn't everyone's dream school. It's not the right fit for everyone. To fault the kid or even insinuate that he made a mistake is wrong.

2) The fact that Duke has landed Dawkins, Hairston, Thornton and Kelly in recent months is evidence that Boynton's decision isn't part of some larger "trend." So, the frustration should be contained to the fact that Duke didn't get Boynton, and nothing larger.

3) Because Thornton and Dawkins arrive in 2010, and because Boynton is potentially a one-and-done player, this is basically a one-year issue.

4) If Gerald Henderson comes back next season, this decision is largely meaningless. Duke, obviously, would be incredibly fortunate to have Smith, Scheyer and Henderson for another year, with Williams and possibly Pocius off the bench. I don't expect Henderson to return, but stranger things have happened.

5) If Henderson leaves, this stings a bit, but is not a deal-breaker. Assuming Elliot Williams progresses, Duke should still have a strong perimeter trio. And you'd hope that Marty, as a fifth-year senior, could contribute off the bench. Pure guard depth would be somewhat of an issue.

6) In the event that both Henderson AND Pocius leave, this stings a lot more. That would leave on three pure guards on the roster, increasing the likelihood of having to play Singler at the 3. That's not the worst thing in the world, but it would leave Duke short-handed.

7) There's an even worse-case scenario, where Duke loses Henderson, Pocius AND Singler. But it's absolutely pointless to think about that right now. In theory, everyone could get hurt, too. More than half the team, it seems like, has been rumored to be on the verge of a transfer or headed to the NBA at some point.

8) I think the best course of action is to focus on how exciting this season should be, hope there aren't many backcourt defections after the season and maybe wonder if K will actively pursue a backup plan between now and the spring.

It's a bit frustrating, but in the overall scheme of things, this shouldn't be a big deal. And as far as recruiting misses go, this isn't even close to the most frustrating.

With regards to point 7, that is is a wosrt(ish) case scenario. However, for both (Kyle and Gerald) to leave, both would have to have very good years, and the team would have to do very well. At the very least, a serious Elite 8 Run or better. It is possible for both to have very good years while the team underachieved, but it is unlikely that BOTH would leave early after yet another early March Swoon.

If we made it to the Final Four, or at least knocked on the door, and both left, well, so be it.

I mean, if we went to the FF or won the NC, we would expect a couple of defections. Guys would be striking while the iron is hot, and you can't blame them for that.

If we had a great year, and made a deep run in the NCAAs, and then lost people, next year would be rebuilding year anyway. I would be fine with that. We would take a few lumps, but probably be top 3-4 in the ACC while future key players get tons of experience. Add the frosh in to that in 2010-11 and we would be geared up for another run.

I agree that one of Hendo or Singler will leave. But if we lose both it will be because the team had a great year, and I can live with that.

[sandinmyshoes]

If we're going to lose a recruiting battle, I prefer that we lose it earlier rather than later. Doing so allows the staff more options in their next move. So this is disappointing, but it doesn't really sting.