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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Dillon, Colorado

    Does anyone else like Big XII teams

    for the Final Four as much as I do? I can't decide which of {Kansas, Texas, Texas A&M} untimately belong in the Final Four, but it's hard for me to fill out a bracket in which fewer than two of them are in.

    Real top-heavy conference this year, that Big XII. Reminds me of the ACC in 2001.
    As suburban children we floated at night in swimming pools the temperature of blood. -- Douglas Coupland

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham
    I'm with you. Texas and Texas A&M are as good as Kansas on any given night if you ask me. And with these two teams having "put team on my back" players like Durant and Law IV, the sky is the limit. Both teams have great guard play, though I like A&M a little more given their abundance of upperclassmen. I don't care who you are, you don't want to play either team. You can bet I was smiling when I saw UNC might have to meet UT in the Sweet 16

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Goldsboro, NC

    Yep!!!

    I have Kansas and Texas in the Final Four in bracket.........but hey I'm no expert.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    What is the stat for number of times two teams from the same conference are in the Final Four? I know it happens an awful lot, so I think the Big XII is as good as any bet to place two in there.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Dillon, Colorado
    The statistic on that is "usually".

    The years in which it did NOT happen OTTOMH: 98, 97, 95, 93... then back to 86 if you're only considering the 64-team era. So that's 17 times in 22 tournaments. That may be plus or minus one, but it's definitely happened every year since 98.

    One of my bracket rules is, "If a conference is clearly the strongest in the country, it will send two teams to the Final Four." Problem is, I can't quite get around calling the Big XII the clear (or even unclear) best conference in the country.
    As suburban children we floated at night in swimming pools the temperature of blood. -- Douglas Coupland

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by hurleyfor3 View Post
    The statistic on that is "usually".

    The years in which it did NOT happen OTTOMH: 98, 97, 95, 93... then back to 86 if you're only considering the 64-team era. So that's 17 times in 22 tournaments. That may be plus or minus one, but it's definitely happened every year since 98.

    One of my bracket rules is, "If a conference is clearly the strongest in the country, it will send two teams to the Final Four." Problem is, I can't quite get around calling the Big XII the clear (or even unclear) best conference in the country.
    The ACC was considered the best conference. But I cant see two teams from the ACC being in the Final 4.

    I hate Ohio State, but I seem them as a Final Four. I have one Big XII in the final four(havent decided which one yet..) The other 2 spots are wide open.

  7. #7

    Question first stab

    Elite 8:
    OSU - Nev or A&M
    KU - UCLA or Duke
    Fla - ORE
    Gtown - UNC or TX

  8. #8
    i don't know what to think of the big 12. on the one hand, kansas has been talked up by everyone all season. texas has durant. a+m has law and veteran leadership.

    on the other hand, i think they've all been made to look good against a weak conference. think back to january or so when kansas and a+m were barely in the top 10 and texas was barely even ranked - what have they done to move up? beat up on mediocre big 12 teams and each other. texas lost all but one of its decent out of conference games (zaga, tennessee, nova, michigan state - they beat arkansas) and have had sqeakers against not great teams (baylor, ok state, lsu, st. john's, nebraska). a+m's only decent ooc win was at home against winthrop. kansas has good wins (at florida, for one) but a couple questionable losses and hasn't really separated itself from the other two teams. not to mention consecutive first-round flameouts, and zero experience winning games in the ncaa tournament. meanwhile, the big 12 is rated 7th by RPI, behind every BCS conference and the MVC.

    dangerous teams all, but i'm not convinced they will make much noise.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Dillon, Colorado
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeBlood View Post
    The ACC was considered the best conference. But I cant see two teams from the ACC being in the Final 4.
    The ACC strikes me as "middle-heavy" this year, which is not a great structure for getting two teams into the F4.

    Usually when a conference gets two teams in, it is the conference's clear best team (which is one of the best teams in the country) along with its fourth or fifth best team. Examples: ACC in 2004 and 01, or the SEC in 96.

    That would argue for Kansas and A&M this year, I guess, but I like UTexas better than A&M.
    As suburban children we floated at night in swimming pools the temperature of blood. -- Douglas Coupland

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    As much as I can't stand them, I have KU through to FF and maybe winning whole thing (haven't finalized picks yet). I like Texas too but am a little hesitant to have them going all the way.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Quote Originally Posted by phaedrus View Post
    on the other hand, i think they've all been made to look good against a weak conference. think back to january or so when kansas and a+m were barely in the top 10 and texas was barely even ranked - what have they done to move up? beat up on mediocre big 12 teams and each other. texas lost all but one of its decent out of conference games (zaga, tennessee, nova, michigan state - they beat arkansas) and have had sqeakers against not great teams (baylor, ok state, lsu, st. john's, nebraska). a+m's only decent ooc win was at home against winthrop. kansas has good wins (at florida, for one) but a couple questionable losses and hasn't really separated itself from the other two teams. not to mention consecutive first-round flameouts, and zero experience winning games in the ncaa tournament. meanwhile, the big 12 is rated 7th by RPI, behind every BCS conference and the MVC.
    I'm with phaedrus on this topic. I think the three top big 12 teams range from pretty good (Texas) to very good (A&M) to possibly the most talented in the country (Kansas). But I think how good they are has been inflated by how awful the rest of the Big 12 is. Phaedrus pointed out the lack of quality non-con wins by UT and A&M.

    While Kansas has beaten Florida, USC, and BC (with Sean Williams), they have also lost to Oral Roberts (at home) and DePaul. In both recent games with Texas, Kansas was down by 20 in the first half. I'm not sure if Kansas has the mental fortitude to play consistent solid ball for 40 minutes for 6 straight games.

    If Durant and Augustin are on fire, Texas is capable of getting to Atlanta but I don't think that is likely with UNC looming. Also Rick Barnes is their coach.

    I actually think that A&M has the best chance of the three to get to Atlanta. Acie Law is clutch, the bottom half of the South is a joke (Louisville, Memphis, Nevada, and Creighton), and I think they have the defense and upperclass experience to get by the Ohio State Flying Odens.

  12. #12

    lets just remember

    The teams in the big 12 have a combined one national title since the 1950s, Kansas in 1988, i know its only been a conference since 1996 but they havent extactly done well, i also know you cant always look at the past, i like kansas alot, they have struggled the past two yrs in the tourney, but maybe this year it is time, i also just hope unc doesnt win, 2 times in 3 yrs is good for bragging rights, recuirting

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Dillon, Colorado
    Oh, good point. There's long been a "cream of the crap" effect with the big 8/XII. During the regular season they're only playing themselves so the thimbleful of good teams get to inflate their records. The ACC is not immune to this at times (see 1999).

    Still, once in awhile the Big 8/XII really is good and sends multiple teams to the Final Four (88, 02, 03). That's my dilemma -- I can't figure out whether we have the Paper Tiger Big XII or the Actually Pretty Decent Big XII. The Kansas/Texas final was a fun game to watch where a lot of talent was manifested, so I'm leaning toward the latter.
    As suburban children we floated at night in swimming pools the temperature of blood. -- Douglas Coupland

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX

    Big XII is a question mark

    I haven't filled out my brackets yet and don't know what to do, really, with the Big XII.

    Texas is young, and I don't see them avoiding a stinker in a game they can't afford to put up a stinker in. They have the same problem as Duke in closing out teams. They've also beaten exactly one really good team all year -- A&M, at home, in overtime. Durant is the best college basketball player I have seen since, jeez, my lifetime of hoops going back to the mid-'80s. And Augustine is really really good too. They just seem to have problems finding Durant when it matters most (see both KU games, end of first OT against aggy at home). They also have REALLY short guards and play too much zone with them, so teams kill them from 3 point land.

    Kansas will lose pre final four I think. Can't figure out to whom though. They got down big against Texas twice. A more experienced team (like A&M for instance) will hold them off if they let that happen again. They've also let bad teams hang with them like OU and Iowa State. They are clicking right now, but are they good enough to beat really good teams (better than Texas) without playing the full 40 minutes?

    A&M is the most likely, I think, for 2 reasons. One, other than possibly having to play Louisville in Lexington, they have an EASY draw to the sweet 16. Then they have Memphis in their bracket, who I think they should beat. Their one seed is OSU who I also think they can beat (who has OSU beaten this year except Wisconsin without Butch?).

    Two -- and here's the kicker -- if they make it to the regionals, they get to play in San Antonio.

    Say what you want about aggy as a johnny come lately as a basketball fan. When those guys get their dander up, they are an intimidating fan base. None of these teams have seen that crazy aggy cult yell leader crap they pull off at football games. Well they're doing it at b-ball games, too. And I think it's more effective. aggy will have the Alamo dome jumpin' with farmer fight cheers. That will be the biggest home court in the tourney if they get there.

  15. #15
    anyone nervous about their big XII picks after seeing a+m struggle with penn? maybe just first-round jitters, but i'm second-guessing picking them in the final 4.

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