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Thread: NCSU vs. UNC

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    I really hate Carolina fans.
    Haha, I was watching the game thinking the exact same thing. I remember the Doherty days when they used to boo their own team. Apparently, all is now well in Tar Heel land.

    UNC is clearly a much better team than NC State but I honestly think the Wolfpack's performance was an isolated incident. I say that because no legitimate D-1 team in a BCS conference misses as many layups and uncontested shots as NC State did today. With each missed shot, you could just see their team become increasingly deflated as both teams knew NC State had to make those shots to have any chance of winning.

    While it's easy to question Sidney Lowe's coaching ability, you have to remember that every time he's had a healthy point guard, they've won pretty consistently. Atsur missed a good chunk of last year and the PG they brought in this year is now out for the year due to injury. No team can succeed on a regular basis without consistent point guard play. Duke fans saw that first-hand last year.

    I think the most concerning part about Lowe is his inability to integrate JJ Hickson into the offense. With the addition of Hickson have come struggles for a Ben McAuley-Brandon Costner combo that was very impressive towards the end of last season. Again, it's hard to integrate a player like Hickson into the offense with no real Point Guard, but it's something they'll have to figure out. What sucks is that it looks like Hickson is a one-and-done player, so it almost seems like he'll set the program back a year.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Western North Carolina

    Running up the score

    I think that there are two teams that UNC will truly "run it up." Duke, and NCSU. These are UNC's two big rivalry games, and the fans, ie influential alums, want to paste both of these schools.

    As much as UNC hates Duke, the alums actually want to destroy NCSU more than Duke, just because the UNC alums get to see NCSU alums a work on monday, or out in the community, etc. It isn't really something we Devils experience, because of our far flung alumni base. But here in the state, crushing another triangle team is a big thing, especially for the state schools.

    I gotta think Roy has it in for Duke and UNC, and will run it up, or face the ire, or at least the reduced donations, of a peeved base. Just getting rivalry wins is big. Blowouts are just cherry.

    Patrick Yates

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh

    NCSU-unc

    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    I've never been one to rag on coaches for piling it on, but over the years we've had to put up with numerous visits from our UNC friends complaining about Coach K not calling off the dogs -- one, I believe, earlier this year when the invader didn't seem to realize that Patrick Davidson is the team's only available walk-on (since K is trying to redshirt Steve Johnson).

    Anyway, this is a game to remember the next time that happens ... with three minutes left, Roy had all five starters in with a 31-point lead. He finally got Hansbrough out, replacing him with top frontcourt reserve Alex Stepheson, but left that unit -- four starters and a sixth man -- on the floor until just over a minute left when Williams finally decided that the game was safe and cleared his bench.

    Again, I don't have a problem with him doing that -- it's the other team's job to stop you from running it up. My only point is I didn't want to hear any more c$#p from their fans complaining about K's substitutions.
    Don't forget lawson's dunk in the ACC tourney final last year with less than 10seconds remaining and the holes up by 6 or 7 points. Think one of ours would do that or simply stand at mid-court or in a corner and dribble out the clock...

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Meeting with Marie Laveau

    A word or two from the past

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Yates View Post
    I think that there are two teams that UNC will truly "run it up." Duke, and NCSU. These are UNC's two big rivalry games, and the fans, ie influential alums, want to paste both of these schools.

    As much as UNC hates Duke, the alums actually want to destroy NCSU more than Duke, just because the UNC alums get to see NCSU alums a work on monday, or out in the community, etc. It isn't really something we Devils experience, because of our far flung alumni base. But here in the state, crushing another triangle team is a big thing, especially for the state schools.

    I gotta think Roy has it in for Duke and UNC, and will run it up, or face the ire, or at least the reduced donations, of a peeved base. Just getting rivalry wins is big. Blowouts are just cherry.

    Patrick Yates
    The deep seated feelings Carolina folk may have for NC State go back at least to the early conference (Southern then ACC) dominance State enjoyed while Everett Case was their coach.

    In many ways, Coach Case brought big time college basketball to North Carolina. For instance, I think I remember that he started the custom or tradition of cutting down nets after big wins. Having the winner of the conference tournament earn the only conference bid in the NCAA tournament was his idea. He recruited many good players over the years including some fellow Hoosiers who became his assistant coaches. The one most important to us was Vic Bubas.

    I am agreeing with you in part, but I'm adding some of the historical roots of the animosity between Carolina and NC State as being pretty important, too. As is the case with most longtime rivalries, the friction goes 'way back and is built on many incidents which are passed on like folk lore, fueling the rivalry.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Case certainly spiced up the rivalry and prompted UNC to go after someone who could beat the Old Gray Fox.

    But the rivalry goes back to the beginning of time, or at least the Morrill Land Grant Act. State-Carolina is no different and no stronger than Clemson-South Carolina, Virginia-Virginia Tech, Auburn-Alabama, Texas-Texas A&M, Mississippi-Mississippi State, and others. Lots of inherent conflicts of class and culture in these rivalries.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Meeting with Marie Laveau
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Case certainly spiced up the rivalry and prompted UNC to go after someone who could beat the Old Gray Fox.

    But the rivalry goes back to the beginning of time, or at least the Morrill Land Grant Act. State-Carolina is no different and no stronger than Clemson-South Carolina, Virginia-Virginia Tech, Auburn-Alabama, Texas-Texas A&M, Mississippi-Mississippi State, and others. Lots of inherent conflicts of class and culture in these rivalries.
    Amen, brother!

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Case certainly spiced up the rivalry and prompted UNC to go after someone who could beat the Old Gray Fox.

    But the rivalry goes back to the beginning of time, or at least the Morrill Land Grant Act. State-Carolina is no different and no stronger than Clemson-South Carolina, Virginia-Virginia Tech, Auburn-Alabama, Texas-Texas A&M, Mississippi-Mississippi State, and others. Lots of inherent conflicts of class and culture in these rivalries.
    Yeah, No Class meets No Culture!

  8. #48
    Complaining about Roy leaving his starters in too long, at least with respect to yesterday's game, is unfounded. As Jay Bilas rightly pointed out afterwards, the coach of the team ahead at the end of a game is under no obligation to remove his starters until after the other team's coach concedes by removing his. No obligation at all on any level. Williams took out his remaining starters - I think at least one was already out - right after Lowe took his out.

    As for last year's ACC title game, you're seldom if ever going to see a player catch a pass like Lawson did while running straight toward the basket and then pull up. Enough said. Those of you old enough to remember might also recall Lowe's pass between one of Carolina's players legs at Reynolds in '83...and then his mocking Dean Smith on the way back down the court in the waning moments of that game. What goes around comes around .

  9. #49
    I've noticed that Williams rarely, almost never, puts in his true end of the bench walk on scrubs until sometime around the two minute mark. He generally seems to want to give his second team scholarship players some run. Understandable, I guess. Although it isn't much in the mercy department when your second teamers are as good as Green, Stephenson and even Thomas.

    So on the one hand, I understand what he's doing, but I don't let that interfere with annoying UNC fans by pointing out that the scrubs aren't in the game despite a large lead.

  10. #50
    Fair enough - I've noticed myself that the true scrubs seldom show up in UNC's games before the under 2-minute mark. I just was glad to hear Bilas make a pointed statement about it really being up to the trailing team's coach to throw in the towel first when it comes to removing starters.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Billy Tubbs was notorious for running up scores. 30-point lead, two minutes left, he's got his starters in and he's pressing full court. When asked about this, his response was basically "if they don't like it, then they should get better."

    I probably wouldn't go that far. But, I did an article for BDW a few weeks ago on Fred Shabel. You may remember that Shabel was an assistant at Duke through the '63 season and took over at UConn for '64. As fate would have it, Duke played Connecticut for the 1964 East Regional title. Duke won 101-54. Bubas emptied his bench but Duke continued to attack the basket, despite the absence of a shot clock.

    I asked Shabel if he thought that Bubas should have pulled back. He was adamant that Bubas should not have. It was Bubas' job to coach his team and if Bubas thought that he had things to work on, lineups to evaluate, then it was none of his (Shabel's) business.

    An interesting perspective from someone on the wrong end of a blow-out and someone who knows substantially more about college hoops than me.

  12. #52
    As god-awful as the first half game was, and boy was it amazingly awful, no one seems to be talking about how they came out in the second half.

    No, they didn't come back. But they did manage to keep the scored tied up for most of the game, and came away from the second half with a -1 margin, even after UNC kept it's starters in most of the game.

    And if you didn't see a 30 point blowout coming, you clearly haven't watched State this year.

    To expect a team that has been struggling to win against the likes of NCCU and Presbyterian to come into the Dean Dome and face the #1 team for the conference opener without their starting point guard and with a banged up lineup...

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    nc state followed up the unc drubbing with a 16-point beating from clemson. it doesn't get any easier on saturday with miami coming to down. i have to assume that they are close to meltdown mode.

  14. #54

    Costner

    At the end of last year, Brandon Costner was looking like he might be the player of the year in the ACC. Tonight he followed a 4 point performance at UNC with a O-fer. That is pretty hard to believe. This team is having some odd chemistry issues. Having no point guard hurts a lot - but still. If Lowe can right this ship- State may be in for a very long season.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by dukie8 View Post
    nc state followed up the unc drubbing with a 16-point beating from clemson. it doesn't get any easier on saturday with miami coming to down. i have to assume that they are close to meltdown mode.
    I think they'll beat Miami somehow. Miami may be this season's Clemson.

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