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  1. #1
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    Feb 2007

    Why Doesn't Coach K recruit In NYC ?

    When was the last time that Duke had a player from New York City I think that it might have been Andre Sweet but I am not sure. There is some tremendous basketball talent in New York City, but Coach K seems adverse to recruit from The City , any reason why ?

  2. #2
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    Yup, far as I can tell, Sweet is the last one. Lance Thomas is from Newark, which is right across the river from NYC, but it ain't the same as being from the Big Apple.

    That said, as big a city as it is, New York is just a tiny part of the nation of recruiting. What kids from New York in recent years do you think would have been a good fit at Duke? The answer to that query may provide you with the answer to your question.

    -Jason "gimme a sec while I look for top recruits from NYC over the past several years" Evans

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    -Jason "gimme a sec while I look for top recruits from NYC over the past several years" Evans
    Ok--

    2008 -
    Sylven Landesberg is a top 40 recruit from Flushing. I think that qualifies as being from NYC. He's headed to Virginia and is a 6-6 wing. He also looked at Ga Tech, Kentucky, Texas, and St John's. Seems like a kid K could have gone after, though we are loaded to the gills with wings and he is not the prospect that Eric Williams is.

    Kemba Walker is a top 30 PG from the Big Apple. He is headed to UConn. I suppose we could have gone after him, though the year after getting Nolan Smith it doesn't make much sense. Plus, he was recruited by Memphis, Cincy, and a few other schools that typically do not go after the same calliber of student as Duke does. Knowing only who recruited him, I'd say he is not much of a fit at Duke.

    2007-
    The only NYC kid in the top 100 was Justin Burrell, who was only barely in the top-100. He is a PF who went to St John's. The schools recruiting him were not top caliber (UTEP, Fordham, Drexel, Delaware) though Ga Tech and Marquette had at least some interest. He's just not a kid Duke is likely to go after.

    2006-
    Curtis Kelley was a top-30 PF recruit from New York City who went to UConn and got looks from plenty of big programs including UNC, Louisville, Texas, and a few others. Still, this line in his recruiting bio gave me pause: "Missed first half of high school season due to academics." That is code for "not going to Duke."

    2006 also featured Taj Gibson from Brooklyn (he attended a year of prep school in California so I am not sure where to classify him as being from) who went to USC and Edgar Sosa from NYC who went to Louisville. Both of these guys were top 50-ish recruits who have turned into nice players. Gibson, especially, would be welcome at Duke with his presence inside (he's a fierce rebounder). That said, the type of schools recruiting them does not lead me to believe that they would fit in well in the Duke community.

    And that line probably sums much of this up. Duke does not even look at a huge percentage of the top recruits because they are kids who would not fit at our school academically or socially. It is not us being elitist, it is just the reality of the kind of players who thrive at Duke. With Duke recruiting limited in this way and NYC only representing a tiny fraction of the top 50 or so recruits each year (1 or 2 of them seems typical) the odds of a NYC kid being a Duke kinda kid and seems remote.

    --Jason "I don't think K has any negative feelings about NYC -- though he does seem to have close ties to New Jersey kids" Evans

  4. #4
    You'd be surprised at the overall lack of top 100 talent coming out of NYC these days.

    Looking at Jason's list above, Walker isa point guard ranked in the top 30 but someone who we obviously don't need. Sylven Landesberg is a top 40 wing who committed to UVa. After that most guys are out side of the top 50.

    Burrell who was ranked in the 70's and is playing well for St. John's. Strong inside player but not nearly as highly regarded as the other guys that Duke recruited last year for the power positions (Griffin and Patterson). He was the only NYC guy in the top 100.

    Kelly was a top 30 PF who went to UConn where he has been underwhelming, Gibson had academic issues, and Sosa was a point guard in a class right after we signed Paulus.

    Adding to Jason's list:

    In 2005 there was Danny Green who ended up at UNC after being ranked in the top 20. Then there was Theo Davis, a top 40 center who turned out to be academically ineligible to play for Iowa State and then went to Gonzaga where he was busted for possession of hippy lettuce. After that it was Levance Fields who we saw at Pitt but he was borderline top 100.

    2004 had Sebastian Telfair, Juan Diego Palacio, AJ Price, and Russell Robinson all in the top 30. Telfair had a pro entourage already, Palacio could barely speak English, Price went on to steal laptops at UConn, and Robinson has been a solid but nothing special guard for Kansas. The best player in that class from NYC was Joakim Noah who Duke did recruit.

    So if you're asking why Duke doesn't recruit NYC too much I'd say that primarily it's because there's better talent elsewhere. Beyond that I'd add that the kids from NYC who are really special usually have enough hype around them that there's an entourage which I think K would sooner avoid. Finally, many of these kids from NYC seem to have trouble qualifying.

  5. #5
    "Flushing"

    in queens, one of the five boroughs of new york city. usually included as part of new york city except during snow emergencies.

  6. #6
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    Feb 2007
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    Watching carolina Go To HELL!

    Flushing

    Quote Originally Posted by grossbus View Post
    "Flushing"

    in queens, one of the five boroughs of new york city. usually included as part of new york city except during snow emergencies.
    >A stop on the LIRR line that goes out to my former home town, Great Neck. Used to depart Penn Station on Track 17 (usually). I think it still does.
    >Where my dad had his manufacturing plant for many years back in the 60's and 70's.
    >Where the 1964-65 Worlds Fair was.
    >Where Shea Stadium still is.
    >Not far from where I was born.
    >Sometimes residents claim to be part of NYC, sometimes not, and equally important, vice versa
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    https://ecogreen.greentechaffiliate.com

  7. #7
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    Raleigh, NC
    I'm tempted to say it's because Frank McGuire has the city wrapped up but I'd be showing my age (again).

    The real question is why isn't Mike Krzyzewski recruiting big men in New York City? Then, he could make everybody happy.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Everyone beat me to it. The lack of talent coming out of NYC compared to other major cities these days is simply stunning. It's one of many reasons why St. John's is lousy now, in fact.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
    Everyone beat me to it. The lack of talent coming out of NYC compared to other major cities these days is simply stunning. It's one of many reasons why St. John's is lousy now, in fact.
    Where have you gone, Walter Berry?

  10. #10
    I live on Long Island, and there is a lot of good players on LI, and in NYC. However, I think K has problems with the kids' attitudes. For the most part, many of the bigger players coming out of NYC have entourages, and think who the hell they are- which is why you see the same schools recruiting them. They aren't good students, and have poor attitudes which wouldn't fit into the Duke system at all- yet there are some diamonds in the rough in NYC powerhouses such as Rice, Christ the King, Lincoln, and other PSAL and CHSAA schools.

    I've also asked myself this question too, because K has strong ties to the area (from coaching at West Point years ago) and his son-in-law, Captain Spatola, hails from Long Island..and you'd think K could find a big, burly post player, with all the Duke requirements. Duke has done it in the past, recruiting Heyman, Laettner (even though he was upstate NY). There is alot of talent in NYC, LI, Jersey City, and other local areas. I'd really like to know why he has been so lax in recruiting the metropolitan era!!

  11. #11
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    Meeting with Marie Laveau

    You're not old; you just have a good memory!

    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    I'm tempted to say it's because Frank McGuire has the city wrapped up but I'd be showing my age (again).
    Jim, you are not alone in in having this thought crop up! As I think about the idea of recruiting from a specific area, I somehow can't imagine Coach K needing any sort of "underground railroad" to identify and access the best players. It's as if he's taken the geographic model Vic Bubas employed and expanded it greatly.

  12. #12
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    Feb 2007
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    Raleigh, NC
    West Point is not exactly in NYC and it's not like Army recruited primarily from the area. Talk about your national programs. The service acadamies are in a class of their own.

    I think Duke's academics rules out a lot of these kids. Look, as a Duke alum from North Carolina, it pains me to say this but Duke's academics rules out most of the top prep talent in my home state. K has brought in exactly five players from North Carolina in almost three decades.

    Duke self-selects on the basis of academics. K has a number of additional things that he looks for that further narrows the pool. Duke has done such a good job over the years of finding and signing players who can thrive at Duke, that I think we forget how small that pool is. But it is smaller than the competition.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Ok--

    2008 -
    Sylven Landesberg is a top 40 recruit from Flushing. I think that qualifies as being from NYC. He's headed to Virginia and is a 6-6 wing. He also looked at Ga Tech, Kentucky, Texas, and St John's. Seems like a kid K could have gone after, though we are loaded to the gills with wings and he is not the prospect that Eric Williams is.

    Kemba Walker is a top 30 PG from the Big Apple. He is headed to UConn. I suppose we could have gone after him, though the year after getting Nolan Smith it doesn't make much sense. Plus, he was recruited by Memphis, Cincy, and a few other schools that typically do not go after the same calliber of student as Duke does. Knowing only who recruited him, I'd say he is not much of a fit at Duke.

    2007-
    The only NYC kid in the top 100 was Justin Burrell, who was only barely in the top-100. He is a PF who went to St John's. The schools recruiting him were not top caliber (UTEP, Fordham, Drexel, Delaware) though Ga Tech and Marquette had at least some interest. He's just not a kid Duke is likely to go after.

    2006-
    Curtis Kelley was a top-30 PF recruit from New York City who went to UConn and got looks from plenty of big programs including UNC, Louisville, Texas, and a few others. Still, this line in his recruiting bio gave me pause: "Missed first half of high school season due to academics." That is code for "not going to Duke."

    2006 also featured Taj Gibson from Brooklyn (he attended a year of prep school in California so I am not sure where to classify him as being from) who went to USC and Edgar Sosa from NYC who went to Louisville. Both of these guys were top 50-ish recruits who have turned into nice players. Gibson, especially, would be welcome at Duke with his presence inside (he's a fierce rebounder). That said, the type of schools recruiting them does not lead me to believe that they would fit in well in the Duke community.

    And that line probably sums much of this up. Duke does not even look at a huge percentage of the top recruits because they are kids who would not fit at our school academically or socially. It is not us being elitist, it is just the reality of the kind of players who thrive at Duke. With Duke recruiting limited in this way and NYC only representing a tiny fraction of the top 50 or so recruits each year (1 or 2 of them seems typical) the odds of a NYC kid being a Duke kinda kid and seems remote.

    --Jason "I don't think K has any negative feelings about NYC -- though he does seem to have close ties to New Jersey kids" Evans
    In your little "research," you managed to neglect Corey Fisher from just last year. Kevin (about four blocks...same area as Ben Gordon, Scooter McCray, Sean "Diddy" Combs, Denzel Washington, Art Carney, etc.) and Mookie Jones (same town as Hilton Armstrong and Elton Brand) are from the NY metro area.

    In 2009, Omari Lawrence is an elite caliber player, but he'll probably go to Georgetown. Durand Scott has mentioned Duke everytime I've spoken with him, but they haven't reciprocated their interest so he'll likely have to settle for UConn or Arizona . Scott played on the NY Gauchos, who despite the dearth of talent, managed to win five titles this summer.


    1) Syl Landesberg fits the Duke profile:
    extremely coachable,
    the infallible Dave Telep top 40
    upper middle class,
    Catholic high school,
    father, Steve, played in college,
    90 gpa,
    excellent shooter
    pure scorer (led the best high school league in the country in scoring) ,
    fundamentally sound basketball player.

    His father said Duke inquired too late in the process, but his son wasn't interested in being "another cog in the wheel." You'll see him next year at UVA. If he signed with UNC or Duke, he'd be a McDonald's All-American.

    2) NYC will probably produce only two NBA draftees this year, Brian Laing ( ranked way lower than DeMarcus Nelson) and Gary Forbes.

    3) Levance Fields was always a comparable player to Greg Paulus, but it would be naive for a Duke fan to think that players don't benefit in the rankings from a) the schools they sign with, and b) a North Carolinian bias (Gibbons, Telep, Oettinger, etc.). Kyle McAlarney certainly could've been admitted to Duke and he would get major minutes here.

    4) Other than by Clark Francis, Burrell was severely under-ranked. Like Blair, he'll unfortunately annihilate our fowards. He'll certainly make the all-BE freshmen team.

    5) Some poster named Carlos actually wrote, "Finally, many of these kids from NYC seem to have trouble qualifying."
    What a truly uninformed and assanine statement, but, alas, it does unfortunately fit the unfortunate and very misguided reputation of Dukies as being (to put it mildly) "condescending elitists."

    Virtually none of the Catholic school products (where the vast majority of NYC basketball talent goes to school-the exception being Lincoln, where the Marbury clan and future NBA player Lance Stephenson have been students) have "trouble qualifying." Between yesterday's mistake and that callous and ignorant remark, it would simply be a waste of my time to give any more attention to that person's writing.

  14. #14
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    Feb 2007

    Lance Stephenson

    I guess this is for Watzone or Jim Summer. Stephenson is from Lincoln High School ,Brooklyn , New York. Is Duke actively recruiting him ? He is one of the top players in the class of 2009 I believe. Has any of the coaches gone to Brooklyn to see him play?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Duke Fan View Post
    I guess this is for Watzone or Jim Summer. Stephenson is from Lincoln High School ,Brooklyn , New York. Is Duke actively recruiting him ? He is one of the top players in the class of 2009 I believe. Has any of the coaches gone to Brooklyn to see him play?
    There is no way they are going after Lance "Born Ready" Stephenson. He is interested in Carolina.

  16. #16
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    Feb 2007
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    Washington, DC
    Among good current players from NYC you have to include junior Jessie Sapp at Georgetown, a combo guard known for excellent passing, clutch plays, and terrific guard rebounding (6 boards against UConn yesterday). I don't know if he was highly regarded as a recruit - maybe not - but he's been a solid starter for a top-10 team.

  17. #17
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    Norfolk, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Duke Fan View Post
    I guess this is for Watzone or Jim Summer. Stephenson is from Lincoln High School ,Brooklyn , New York. Is Duke actively recruiting him ? He is one of the top players in the class of 2009 I believe. Has any of the coaches gone to Brooklyn to see him play?
    This article is mainly about Dexter Strickland, but if you read down into it there is talk of Lance Stephenson and Carolina.

    http://njmg.typepad.com/zagsblog/200...land.html#more
    Bob Green

  18. #18
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    Feb 2007

    Stephenson To UNC

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    This article is mainly about Dexter Strickland, but if you read down into it there is talk of Lance Stephenson and Carolina.

    http://njmg.typepad.com/zagsblog/200...land.html#more
    It says that he will be making a visit there soon and lists other schools where he is interested...Duke not included. My question is why not ?
    Did we ever recruit him ? If Carolina can come up to the New York Area why can't Coach K ? I see that Samardo Samuels from St. Benedicts has committed to Louisville. Wasn't Duke interested in him ?He would be just the kind of post player that Duke needs. Didn't Lance go to the same high school ? I guess that doesn't matter.

  19. #19
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    Feb 2007
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    Raleigh, NC
    "If Carolina can come up to the New York Area why can't Coach K ? I see that Samardo Samuels from St. Benedicts has committed to Louisville. Wasn't Duke interested in him ?He would be just the kind of post player that Duke needs. Didn't Lance go to the same high school ?"

    ???

    If recruiting Samuels qualifies as coming to NYC, why wouldn't recruiting Thomas mean the same thing?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by gotham devil View Post
    In your little "research," you managed to neglect Corey Fisher from just last year. Kevin (about four blocks...same area as Ben Gordon, Scooter McCray, Sean "Diddy" Combs, Denzel Washington, Art Carney, etc.) and Mookie Jones (same town as Hilton Armstrong and Elton Brand) are from the NY metro area.
    He probably neglected to mention Corey Fisher because, while he lived in the Bronx, he played for St. Patrick's in Jersey. I guess it's all a question of how you're going to define NYC or determining where a player is recruited from. I think it's perfectly acceptable to use their HS location as in that regard. It's probably more acceptable than say... trying to pass off Peekskill as part of NYC.

    In 2009, Omari Lawrence is an elite caliber player, but he'll probably go to Georgetown. Durand Scott has mentioned Duke everytime I've spoken with him, but they haven't reciprocated their interest so he'll likely have to settle for UConn or Arizona . Scott played on the NY Gauchos, who despite the dearth of talent, managed to win five titles this summer.
    Define "elite caliber player" as neither Scout nor Rivals has Lawrence ranked and Scott falls outside of the top 100 for both services. So yeah, Duke hasn't reciprocated Scott's interest but maybe that has something to do with Duke being more interested in Kenny Boynton.

    I'd also question what the success of the Gauchos has to do with recruiting NYC. If Duke recruited Gauchos guard Jordan Theodore would they be recruiting NYC or New Jersey? If they recruited Dan Jennings would they be recruiting NYC or Oak Hill Academy?

    Syl Landesberg fits the Duke profile...

    NYC will probably produce only two NBA draftees this year, Brian Laing ( ranked way lower than DeMarcus Nelson) and Gary Forbes.

    Levance Fields was always a comparable player to Greg Paulus, but it would be naive for a Duke fan to think that players don't benefit in the rankings from a) the schools they sign with, and b) a North Carolinian bias (Gibbons, Telep, Oettinger, etc.).

    Other than by Clark Francis, Burrell was severely under-ranked.
    Nobody is saying that NYC hasn't produced any good players, only that the talent level isn't high enough (based on Duke's criteria) for it to be a given that you would recruit that area on a consistent basis. True Landesberg fits the Duke profile, but does he fit it better than Elliot Williams a player who is also very solid academically and is generally considered a better wing.

    And maybe Laing and Forbes will be drafted. But was Forbes such a great player that you would not sign JJ the year before and instead focus on Forbes? Or was JJ the more talented player?

    As for Paulus getting a bump in the recruiting rankings because of the North Carolina bias of the guys doing the reviewing, is that bump worth the 60 spot difference in the two players? How about when he was ranked way higher than Fields months before Paulus committed to Duke. How did that NC bias work then? Some sort of special proactive approach in anticipation of him signing? Or is it that maybe when they were in HS most observers felt Paulus to be a better player?

    5) Some poster named Carlos actually wrote, "Finally, many of these kids from NYC seem to have trouble qualifying."
    What a truly uninformed and assanine statement, but, alas, it does unfortunately fit the unfortunate and very misguided reputation of Dukies as being (to put it mildly) "condescending elitists."

    Virtually none of the Catholic school products (where the vast majority of NYC basketball talent goes to school-the exception being Lincoln, where the Marbury clan and future NBA player Lance Stephenson have been students) have "trouble qualifying." Between yesterday's mistake and that callous and ignorant remark, it would simply be a waste of my time to give any more attention to that person's writing.
    Except that many of those Catholic schools are in NJ so it hardly qualifies as recruiting NYC. But, tell me, did Justin Burrell who you cited above have to go to prep school? How about Taj Gibson? Theo Davis?

    BTW - I've heard there's that reputation about Dukies being condescending elitists and I'm very hurt that you feel I've contributed to it. Of course, there's also a certain reputation that New Yorkers have...

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