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  1. #21

    Bingo

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil in the Blue Dress View Post
    Somehow the conversations about types of fans and the games last night remind me of conversations about political candidates these days.... similar elements. Somewhere in all the analysis and scrutiny the joy and excitement of college sports in the truest sense seems lost. I'll try to remember that when I watch LSU and Ohio State this evening!
    DITBD, hit it on the money. Though she may not have even intended to. Jason can call me or any ABCer NOT a true Duke fan. It bothers me not. Just as some would say any TRUE Duke fan would never pull for UNC in non ACC games particularly in the NCAA's. But many do.

    DITBD is sooo right when she compares it to politics and that was what my whole point was about. It's all relavite to perspective and a lot of people haven't figured it out yet. The Clinton camp wasn't happy after Iowa, but their next game in New Hampshire the Obama team may lose in a blow out. If candidate A is someone you think would do the country more harm than good and you think candidate B is going to do their best to help the country you pull for A and against B. At the same time another contingent may think B is the best and A is an idiot.

    I was simply admitting to myself and anyone who chose to read that I (we) should enjoy the victories Duke gets more than we do. And most any other school that has achieved what Duke has would. But we are in the unfortunate situation of looking a couple miles west. Both schools and fans are playing a game of keeping up with the Joneses and taking very little time to stop and smell the roses of their sucess. I guess the problem is given proxemity and familiarity, ones success often is cause / effect of the others failure. It's no different that the Cowboys competing against the Redskins to be top dog, or Yankees trying to keep the Red Sox down. I guess their hatred for one another means they aren't true fans either.


    Finally I have always and still think the success of either school or magic of the rivalry is contingent on both teams success. While they go head to head against each other in recruiting, it's a simple fact the more they win the harder it is for Duke to recruit and visa versa. Given the fact that in recruiting Duke can knock 40-50 potential players off their wish list due to academics alone. That in itself gives UNC an edge (that I never want Duke to lower their standards to attain) and a larger pool to sellect from. Everything is stacked against Duke and yet they have competed very, very well over the last 25 years.

    Yes people can be one of two or even three categories. But I dare say most fall mainly into one. And yes we can't help respect UNC, their program is crammed down our throats and flaunted in our faces. I think it's the attitude they always have been the best, are the best and always will be the best that makes ABCers want them taken down several notches.

  2. #22

    White Phantoms

    Quote Originally Posted by allenmurray View Post
    Which brings up another point - if they are the tar heels why is their mascot a ram? Any school that can't make up its mind about its identity should lose every game. I hereby suggest that until they have someone dressed up in a giant foot costume as their mascot no one should ever root for them again!
    They were known as the "White Phantoms" way back when but adopted the post civil war nickname "tarheels" after NC natives who fought in war between the states. I for one LOATHE NC being called the tarheel state, and when anyone calls me a tarheel I ask them to take that back and say something bad about my momma!

  3. #23
    Join Date
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    Atlanta, GA (Buckhead)
    Quote Originally Posted by Latta6970 View Post
    They were known as the "White Phantoms" way back when but adopted the post civil war nickname "tarheels" after NC natives who fought in war between the states. I for one LOATHE NC being called the tarheel state, and when anyone calls me a tarheel I ask them to take that back and say something bad about my momma!
    The White Phantoms? What the Hades is that? Sounds like a second cousin of the KKK. Either way, everything "mascot, colors, etc." about UNC sucks eggs.

    In fact, why don't they just change their mascot to an egg? Beware The Flaming Blue Eggs of UNC!

  4. #24

    Amen

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlJam View Post
    The White Phantoms? What the Hades is that? Sounds like a second cousin of the KKK. Either way, everything "mascot, colors, etc." about UNC sucks eggs.

    In fact, why don't they just change their mascot to an egg? Beware The Flaming Blue Eggs of UNC!
    Amen Earl, from that disgusting color (I guess pink and lavender were already taken.) to having a farm animal for a mascot. (Oh sure tell me it's a long horn ram, yada, yada, yada.)

    As for your deal with the devil to allow Duke to lose early season so UNC would lose in the first round of the NCAA's (Or not make it at all.) Well, let's just say Duke wouldn't make it out of December undefeated for the next 20 years. But then I'm not a true Duke fan.

    How about same deal for UNC but Duke loses 3 baseball games in a row. Or they lose two track and field matches in a row?

    My dad used to say he aught to bet $100 on UNC every game they played. If they won, he'd get money. And if UNC lost it was money well spent.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Meeting with Marie Laveau

    More thoughts on fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Latta6970 View Post
    DITBD, hit it on the money. Though she may not have even intended to. Jason can call me or any ABCer NOT a true Duke fan. It bothers me not. Just as some would say any TRUE Duke fan would never pull for UNC in non ACC games particularly in the NCAA's. But many do.

    DITBD is sooo right when she compares it to politics and that was what my whole point was about. It's all relavite to perspective and a lot of people haven't figured it out yet. The Clinton camp wasn't happy after Iowa, but their next game in New Hampshire the Obama team may lose in a blow out. If candidate A is someone you think would do the country more harm than good and you think candidate B is going to do their best to help the country you pull for A and against B. At the same time another contingent may think B is the best and A is an idiot.

    I was simply admitting to myself and anyone who chose to read that I (we) should enjoy the victories Duke gets more than we do. And most any other school that has achieved what Duke has would. But we are in the unfortunate situation of looking a couple miles west. Both schools and fans are playing a game of keeping up with the Joneses and taking very little time to stop and smell the roses of their sucess. I guess the problem is given proxemity and familiarity, ones success often is cause / effect of the others failure. It's no different that the Cowboys competing against the Redskins to be top dog, or Yankees trying to keep the Red Sox down. I guess their hatred for one another means they aren't true fans either.


    Finally I have always and still think the success of either school or magic of the rivalry is contingent on both teams success. While they go head to head against each other in recruiting, it's a simple fact the more they win the harder it is for Duke to recruit and visa versa. Given the fact that in recruiting Duke can knock 40-50 potential players off their wish list due to academics alone. That in itself gives UNC an edge (that I never want Duke to lower their standards to attain) and a larger pool to sellect from. Everything is stacked against Duke and yet they have competed very, very well over the last 25 years.

    Yes people can be one of two or even three categories. But I dare say most fall mainly into one. And yes we can't help respect UNC, their program is crammed down our throats and flaunted in our faces. I think it's the attitude they always have been the best, are the best and always will be the best that makes ABCers want them taken down several notches.
    I guess a Duke education is worth something after all.....

    As for being surrounded by aggressive Carolina fans, I can match anyone's story including seeing amazingly high positive correlations between such affiliations and hiring and promotions in various venues. I would say that the worst offenders often seem to be those who never stepped on the Carolina campus to enroll for any classes.

    I would also observe that Carolina and some other "rabid" institutions have done a much better job in embracing their colors, mascots, traditions, etc. and in marketing their schools, their programs and their traditions over the years. It's always amazed me that the use of school colors and other such devices to encourage what used to be called "school spirit" (an old term for creating loyalty) has lagged at Duke. It took years before the football stadium had any blue in it, royal or navy. In what used to be Indoor Stadium, blue was added only as a part of the last renovation. Even the chairs for the trustees to use during their meetings were black leather the last time I saw them. I don't think this is part of the difference between public and private institutions. I suspect that it's part of the premise that such matters are beneath Duke's self image as a stellar university.

    If you're a Duke fan, what do you do for Duke?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlJam View Post
    everything "mascot, colors, etc." about UNC sucks eggs.

    In fact, why don't they just change their mascot to an egg? Beware The Flaming Blue Eggs of UNC!
    Pastel blue uniforms with carolina printed across the butt.
    Argyle side panels.
    Designed by a fashion designer.

    My son and I refer to the team as "the boys in pastel".

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by feldspar View Post
    "I admit that it's not rational, my desire to see UNC fail at all things. But sports rivalries aren't supposed to be rational."
    AMEN!

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlJam View Post
    It's part of the UNC brand. They've been pulling that little irritating stunt for decades.

    -EarlJam
    And thats EXACTLY why it tastes so $^%* good to watch them crumble.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Latta6970 View Post
    After being very ill for over a week and taking care of my wife who has also been ill. I stopped by DBR to check all the postings, especially after last nights Duke game and UNC's game against Clemson. After adding 2 and 2 and 2 together I have come to figure out something about those of us who call ourselves Duke fans. As near as I can tell there are 3 types of Duke fans.

    1.Students / alums.
    2. Fans that want Duke to succeed above all else
    3.Duke fans who want UNC to fail more than anything else.


    The way I see it a person attending Duke or that graduated from there has the school spirit, proud alum rah, rah thing going. Duke IS such a great school that optimism about all aspects of Duke are going to shine through 99 times out of 100. The second category is a little skewed because if Duke succeeds, ultimately UNC is going to fail. (There are no co-national champions....at least in basketball!) But many people that fall into this second category want Duke teams to do their best and pay little or no attention to what any other schools accomplish.
    I don't like this at all. It's possible to be a Duke student/alum/faculty member and still also fall in either of the other categories. And I hate the way you categorize "Group 2" -- many people have the exact same school spirit as "Group 1," have family or other ties to the university, and is quite optimistic. And to decide that they "ant Duke teams to do their best and pay little or no attention to what any other schools accomplish" is ridiculous -- why on Earth would someone not care about the rest of the college basketball world, simply because they didn't go to Duke? If anything, I'd guess that there are more fans who only care about Duke among current students; that Duke basketball attracts some kids who ordinarily wouldn't follow college hoops. If you're going to pick up Duke basketball as a hobby and you didn't go there, chances are you love college hoops in general.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Latta6970 View Post
    They were known as the "White Phantoms" way back when but adopted the post civil war nickname "tarheels" after NC natives who fought in war between the states. I for one LOATHE NC being called the tarheel state, and when anyone calls me a tarheel I ask them to take that back and say something bad about my momma!

    uncch was known as the White Phantoms until just a couple of years before joining the ACC (used as late as 1950). I could be mistaken but I believe the football team was referred to as the Rams for quite some time prior to that.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    Atlanta, GA (Buckhead)
    Quote Originally Posted by dball View Post
    uncch was known as the White Phantoms until just a couple of years before joining the ACC (used as late as 1950). I could be mistaken but I believe the football team was referred to as the Rams for quite some time prior to that.
    I, EarlJam, have often referred to sports teams, namely the basketball team, from UNC through multiple monikers:

    G-- D(*& M@#$#@ ers!!

    Sons of B45u0g3=es!

    Bunch of $%@#$^@!

    Stinky heads

    Collective group of human beings with gold-plated horse shoes located up their rectums

    Nappy Headed Holes

    B@$@#$ds! (just last night, in fact)


    --------

    To name a few.

    -EarlJam

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    I root for whatever circumstance is good for Duke. That rule means that I would generally like Duke to win the NC by beating UNC in the FF--that circumstance would not only give Duke the championship but would enhance the overall allure of the rivalry, region, etc. In my fantasy scenario, I would like UNC to have an occasional losing season (which would interrupt their string of records) but I don't have overall hatred for them. Frankly, many of their players would have done just fine at Duke, considered playing for us, and are friends with some of our guys. And we have certainly had players who I'd have traded for some of theirs (not because of talent but from what I could tell of their personalities).

    I detest some coaches but not Dean: his perspectives on race and politics are admirable to me even if he was the face of the team that I felt most competitive with.

    Of course, one of the reasons that we are most competitive with Carolina is that the boys in pastel are probably the most similar team to Duke. To extend the game of conjecture, which other team is more similar in terms of being packed with academically competent McD's A-A's? They seem much more like us than Stanford, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Wake, or any other state school.

    Oh, and I agree with Jumbo: the divisions don't work if school attendance is the key variable.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by johnb View Post
    I would generally like Duke to win the NC by beating UNC in the FF--that circumstance would not only give Duke the championship but would enhance the overall allure of the rivalry, region, etc.
    I like the scenario, but I also recognize that I would have to have a fully equipped operating room staffed by a cardiologist, in my house during the game. Given that I can not afford that, the thought of them meeting in the National Championship game scares me and my family greatly. They don't make blood pressure medicine in a high enough dosage for allenmurray to survive that game.

  14. #34
    there's actually many different types of duke fans, IMO. i mean a person can be a student / alumni, and still want duke to exceed expectations, and they want to see carolina fail. you can't really seperate all of that into catergories, because some people fit into 1 or more of them.

    i wouldn't say there's "different" kinds of duke fans, there's just duke fans, and there's bandwagoners. and it's actually quite easy to pick them apart after reading some of the posts.

    if i had to "catergorize" duke fans, it'd look something like this:

    A: die-hard fans. those who watch every single game whether it's nationally televised or not, they find ways to watch every game in any way possible. they live for duke beating carolina, and they love to see carolina fail. they also feel that "rush" of never ending excitement after duke beats carolina. these fans could also tell you about basically any player to ever wear duke blue, whether it be someone as great as laettner or someone as mediocure as melechionni.

    B: fans who like duke, they see 1/2 to 3/4 of the games. they like seeing duke beat carolina, but it's just a good win to them, not neccasarily the greatest thing ever. they could name the great players to ever play at duke, but the mediocure ones would probably come as confusion to them.

    C: fans who enjoy watching duke. they don't root against duke, but if duke loses it's really not a big deal, there's always more games (or next year, in some cases) these fans could name players only like redick, laettner, brand, hill, maybe battier. a win against carolina is just a little clap for these folks, not really a huge deal.

    D: ... of course the bandwagoners. the type of fans who say "OH YEAH I LOVE DUKE, I WATCH THEM ALL THE TIME" ... yet they couldn't even tell you who grant hill is. normally they like duke, until they find another team that's #1 in the polls.


    myself, i fit into catergory A easily. where do you fit?

  15. #35
    Anyone ever meet someone who claimed to be a fan of both, Duke and UNC? I'm sorry to say that I have met many people who make this ridiculous claim. This should probably serve as an indication that I need to stop hanging out with people who are this ignorant, but I press on.

    Being a Duke AND Carolina fan. It's like being a Red Sox and Yankees fan, a Buckeye and Wolverine fan, an Auburn and Alabama fan. What a joke.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by ugadevil View Post
    Anyone ever meet someone who claimed to be a fan of both, Duke and UNC? I'm sorry to say that I have met many people who make this ridiculous claim. This should probably serve as an indication that I need to stop hanging out with people who are this ignorant, but I press on.

    Being a Duke AND Carolina fan. It's like being a Red Sox and Yankees fan, a Buckeye and Wolverine fan, an Auburn and Alabama fan. What a joke.
    well it is ridiculous, but most of those fans are just fans of ACC basketball, therefore it's understandable. although, the few that claim they love duke and carolina, and no other teams, i agree with you, it's ridiculous.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Dillon, Colorado
    Quote Originally Posted by ugadevil View Post
    Anyone ever meet someone who claimed to be a fan of both, Duke and UNC? I'm sorry to say that I have met many people who make this ridiculous claim. This should probably serve as an indication that I need to stop hanging out with people who are this ignorant, but I press on.

    Being a Duke AND Carolina fan. It's like being a Red Sox and Yankees fan, a Buckeye and Wolverine fan, an Auburn and Alabama fan. What a joke.
    A not trifling number of people have degrees from both places, and many parents have sent one kid to Duke and another to unc. Whom do they root for? For that matter, what about Terry Sanford? Was it OK for him to stop rooting for the place he received two degrees from once he became the president of Duke?

    I think these are the three types of Duke fans:
    (1) Those who can count, and
    (2) Those who can't.
    Sometimes I mistake this for a universe that cares. -- xkcd #625

  18. #38
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    Nov 2007
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    Meeting with Marie Laveau

    And don't forget...

    Quote Originally Posted by hurleyfor3 View Post
    A not trifling number of people have degrees from both places, and many parents have sent one kid to Duke and another to unc. Whom do they root for? For that matter, what about Terry Sanford? Was it OK for him to stop rooting for the place he received two degrees from once he became the president of Duke?

    I think these are the three types of Duke fans:
    (1) Those who can count, and
    (2) Those who can't.
    Don't forget the married couples of a one Duke graduate and one Carolina graduate!

  19. #39
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    Feb 2007
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    Lexington, KY

    Question Why a ram... and an ugly one at that

    Quote Originally Posted by Latta6970 View Post
    They were known as the "White Phantoms" way back when but adopted the post civil war nickname "tarheels" after NC natives who fought in war between the states. I for one LOATHE NC being called the tarheel state, and when anyone calls me a tarheel I ask them to take that back and say something bad about my momma!
    OK, so I get the Tar Heel business, honoring the folks who fought in the war of northern aggression (the war between the states, the civil war). Fine.

    So why a ram? A ram makes no sense if you're talking about white phantoms.

    According to Wiki, Cornell developed its alma mater in 1870, and it was later used by other schools, including UNCCH (which adopted its own version in 1897).

    Cheers,
    Lavabe

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham
    Judging by my name, you can tell I'm a recent Duke alum and I obviously don't like Carolina. But to be honest, I think Duke fans are way more rational towards Carolina than Carolina fans towards Duke. I know Carolina fans that still insist Duke's 2001 national title team wasn't anything special, which is just plain ignorant. I rarely see that type of sheer ignorance/hatred/mixture of both from Duke fans. Duke fans hate Carolina but they're also much more realistic, IMO.

    I personally want Duke to do well much more than I want to see Carolina lose. But if you're asking me whether or not I was rooting for Clemson last night, the answer is yessssss ...

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