#6 Seed against VCU

[feldspar]

This is interesting... I thought that the Billy "Thacker" was deliberate... kinda like all of the Hans, Hansbro, Hansblablah, etc stuff. Obviously, Jim Thacker was broadcasting well before I remember watching ACC hoops...

You forgot Hansbra.

[CDu]

It's a solid matchup. It could be better, but it could be worse. VCU is small and shoots 3s. They aren't going to beat us on the boards. We historically defend the 3 well, so that helps.

That said, they do have a very talented PG, and they have 3 gifted guards (and 5 good outside shooters). But they won't likely be able to make Paulus pay with a mismatch, because all of their guards are small. And they don't have an interior presence to put pressure on McRoberts. And if they press, you'll see a lot of McRoberts with the ball, which is a good thing.

If we get to play Pitt, that's again not a terrible matchup. They like to muck it up, and they don't have a take-over-the-game type of player. Gray is good, but can be defended. Their backcourt isn't overwhelming.

Again, we could easily lose and lose badly to either team. But as matchups go, this isn't a bad set of opponents. For example, I wouldn't want Stanford/Texas A&M, or Winthrop/Oregon.

[devildownunder]

I think that normally we look further into the bracket than we are at the moment. Our perception of this draw relates to the first 2 rounds, while in past years we'd be upset that we had both Kansas and UCLA in our bracket.

fine point, you're right on the money. Only the first two rounds are ever gimmes no matter how high you are seeded. After that, you should absolutely expect to play someone tough, so if you're a 1 and your 2-4 are tough, fine. So are everyone else's, and that's the way it should be.

[Highlander]

Well, do remember that we had a home and home series with Georgetown and Indiana. We played BOTH on the road last year in hostile environments. This year we played both at home. I'm sure some of it was intentional, but Duke isn't going to give up their half of a home and home just to make their schedule harder.

I think we step out of conference and play pretty challenging teams most years. I was kind of disappointed we had so many home games and no real road games early, but with a young team that might not have been a bad thing. We could have easily lost Indiana and Holy Cross if we played those games on the road. And that could have tipped us off the bubble.

[dukie8]

Well, do remember that we had a home and home series with Georgetown and Indiana. We played BOTH on the road last year in hostile environments. This year we played both at home. I'm sure some of it was intentional, but Duke isn't going to give up their half of a home and home just to make their schedule harder.

I think we step out of conference and play pretty challenging teams most years. I was kind of disappointed we had so many home games and no real road games early, but with a young team that might not have been a bad thing. We could have easily lost Indiana and Holy Cross if we played those games on the road. And that could have tipped us off the bubble.

indiana was courtesy of the big 10/acc challenge so we had no control over that. i'm not sure what the rules are for assigning home games in that challenge. we did have full control over littering our schedule with home games against the likes of davidson, holy cross, gm, kent st and temple. you can't tell me that we would not have been better prepared for road acc games had we gone on the road for at least one of them. it's time to dump st john's and temple and get some better teams on the road-and-road circuit. the way that those teams play one of these years one of our guys is going to suffer a broken arm on one of their fouls.

[Jumbo]

Hopefully, big Z will see a lot of minutes in this game. I think we should slow it down, play halfcourt and pound it inside all day.

Have you seen VCU play? If you had, trust me, you'd know this isn't a good matchup for Big Z.

[Jumbo]

i completely agree about the scheduling and have been saying it for the past few years. scheduling the butlers, valpos, gms and kent sts at home does not, contrary to what k says, prepare the team for the ncaas. play them on the road and that will be much better preparation. k gets a pass this year because the team was young. hopefully we get some real ooc road games on the schedule for next year so it's our guys aren't shell shocked when they hit their first hostile crowd in january. playing in msg and the meadowlands is basically playing at home because the crowd is 90% duke. however, our nov/dec schedule sure was better than uconn's...

Next year includes a trip to Maui, which features another strong field. So, Duke will get some good neutral-floor experience against tough competition.
BTW, everyone overlooks the Air Force/Marquette neutral-floor combo this year. That was not easy, by any means. G-Town was a home game this year; next year Duke will have to go to their place.

[devildownunder]

Next year includes a trip to Maui, which features another strong field. So, Duke will get some good neutral-floor experience against tough competition.
BTW, everyone overlooks the Air Force/Marquette neutral-floor combo this year. That was not easy, by any means. G-Town was a home game this year; next year Duke will have to go to their place.

I was fully aware that we played Air Force and Marquette on a neutral floor this year when I was complaining about the schedule earlier.

[devildownunder]

Have you seen VCU play? If you had, trust me, you'd know this isn't a good matchup for Big Z.

no, sadly, I can only go by what I have been told about their lineup. They don't have a man above 6'7". I have to believe Z can do some rebounding against a team with that kind of personnel and my thought was that's why he belonged in the game (yes, i know i mentioned zoubek in the same post I mentioned throwing the ball inside). But no, I haven't seen them.

[devildownunder]

At the same time, you have to weigh everything. A loss to a mid-major hurts, and will affect your seeding come tourney time -- i mean, look how much importance they place on OOC. So what's more valuable, when the ultimate goal is to win the NCAA? An extra "preparation" game or two, which could result in losses, which doesn't exactly help confidence, and will lower your ultimate NCAA seed? Or some wins that will help your seeding in the long run? I'd rather end up with a better seed, than a lower seed but have that "mental edge" from playing some mid-major 4 months ago.

I agree, playing road games against good teams will help your team get better at playing on hostile courts...but at what cost?

Then go play the road games against high majors. That's what we used to do. And quite successfully, I might add.

[devildownunder]

i completely agree about the scheduling and have been saying it for the past few years. scheduling the butlers, valpos, gms and kent sts at home does not, contrary to what k says, prepare the team for the ncaas. play them on the road and that will be much better preparation. k gets a pass this year because the team was young. hopefully we get some real ooc road games on the schedule for next year so it's our guys aren't shell shocked when they hit their first hostile crowd in january. playing in msg and the meadowlands is basically playing at home because the crowd is 90% duke. however, our nov/dec schedule sure was better than uconn's...

Yeah, what is calhoun's winning percentage against quinnipiac anyway?

[devildownunder]

Well, do remember that we had a home and home series with Georgetown and Indiana. We played BOTH on the road last year in hostile environments. This year we played both at home. I'm sure some of it was intentional, but Duke isn't going to give up their half of a home and home just to make their schedule harder.

I think we step out of conference and play pretty challenging teams most years. I was kind of disappointed we had so many home games and no real road games early, but with a young team that might not have been a bad thing. We could have easily lost Indiana and Holy Cross if we played those games on the road. And that could have tipped us off the bubble.

Again, there is no need to give up half of anything. There were plenty of cupcakes on the schedule this year who could have been knocked off in favor of beginning a home-and-home with somebody legitimate and playing that game on the road.

Aren't people tired of our guys looking shell-shocked (thank you dukie8, perfect word) when they go to maryland, gtech or wherever for that first real road game -- in late january?

Someone else already touched on the Indiana scheduling. ACC/big-ten challenge, not a home-and-home contract between the schools. Georgetown has turned out to be a pretty good opponent. I hope they stay on now that it looks like they are on the rise. That would be good.

[devildownunder]

Have you seen VCU play? If you had, trust me, you'd know this isn't a good matchup for Big Z.

OK. Why not?

[Jumbo]

no, sadly, I can only go by what I have been told about their lineup. They don't have a man above 6'7". I have to believe Z can do some rebounding against a team with that kind of personnel and my thought was that's why he belonged in the game (yes, i know i mentioned zoubek in the same post I mentioned throwing the ball inside). But no, I haven't seen them.

VCU is really quick. They don't really have anyone Zoubek can guard effectively. I would not expect to see him play much.

[devildownunder]

Next year includes a trip to Maui, which features another strong field. So, Duke will get some good neutral-floor experience against tough competition.
BTW, everyone overlooks the Air Force/Marquette neutral-floor combo this year. That was not easy, by any means. G-Town was a home game this year; next year Duke will have to go to their place.

do you know who we play on the road out of conference next year and where? I assume we'll have g'town and somebody from the big ten (although the big ten game may be neutral site). Do you know who else we have?

[Jumbo]

do you know we play on the road out of conference next year and where? I assume we'll have g'town and somebody from the big ten (although the big ten game may be neutral site). Do you know who else we have?

No, the schedule isn't released yet. I know the Georgetown series continues. I'm almost positive the St. John's series continues (next year will be at Cameron). I wouldn't mind ending the Temple series, and I have no idea how many years are left on it. But with Maui, Georgetown and the Big 10/ACC Challenge alone, the guys will get a good test.

Honestly, I don't understand the complaints about this year's schedule. I think it's one of the better schedules Duke has played in a while. Seriously, the complaints (especially at this point in the season) boggle my mind.

Fact: Duke faced six Tourney teams OOC (Marquette, Davidson, Indiana, Georgetown, Holy Cross, Gonzaga), and that doesn't include Air Force, an excellent team that suffered and inexplicable collapse.

Fact: Duke's home record in the ACC was 4-4. So was its road record. so, it's hard to say Duke was "shell-shocked" by going on the road in the ACC. More to the point, the ACC was a ridiculously tough conference this year. Everyone was good. I find it difficult to believe one tough road game would have prepared the team any differently than facing a team of Georgetown's caliber anywhere or teams like Marquette, Air Force and Gonzaga on neutral floors.

Fact: Regardless of who Duke's lack of OOC road games, it just played a brutal ACC schedule, including a host of tough road games. This team is nothing if not battle-tested by this point.

Fact: It takes two to tango in terms of scheduling. Duke has discussed series with different schools, and some of those schools demand things Duke isn't willing to do. Others want no part of the Cameron half of the series. You can't get on K for scheduling when you aren't aware what other schools are willing to do:

Fact: Series deals can cover a span of years, and there's no way to predict how good a team would be. Some fans had suggested a home-and-home with Syracuse. Well, Cuse missed the Tourney this year. People would have written that game off the same way they wrote off playing at Indiana last year. Other perennial powers like Kentucky, Arizona and Michigan State were all seeded eighth or lower. Simply put, if you sign a deal with a team, just about any team, in fact, you run the risk of that program declining in quality.

I really, really think that at this point, scheduling is a non-issue. And I'll fight anyone tooth and nail who claims Duke played a weak schedule this year.

[Bob Green]

it's time to dump st john's and temple and get some better teams on the road-and-road circuit. the way that those teams play one of these years one of our guys is going to suffer a broken arm on one of their fouls.

I agree with pursuing different match-ups in place of Temple and St. John's (even though I love us playing at MSG). Those two teams no longer bring the level of competition that we need. In years past, we had home and away series with Notre Dame, Arizona, and UCLA late in the year. We need that big OOC test at the end of the year as well as a true road game early. I would relish a series with teams such as Florida, Kansas, or USC.

I am sure that scheduling games involves tough negotiations. How many schools, from power conferences, desire to travel to CIS and face Duke, in the middle of their conference schedule home stretch?

Additionally, you negotiate to place a tough team on your schedule and then that team experiences some defections to the NBA, a key injury, or a bad recruiting year and you end up with a game against a power conference door mat.

Bob Green
Yokosuka, Japan

[dukeisawesome]

Since VCU is weak inside, McRoberts had better step up and play like a big man. I hope that isn't too much to ask.

[devildownunder]

No, the schedule isn't released yet. I know the Georgetown series continues. I'm almost positive the St. John's series continues (next year will be at Cameron). I wouldn't mind ending the Temple series, and I have no idea how many years are left on it. But with Maui, Georgetown and the Big 10/ACC Challenge alone, the guys will get a good test..

Maui should be pretty good competition. It's been better but that's a positive. Neutral site though. G'town on the road is excellent. Big 10 challenge will be on the road next year. Let's see if it's a true road game.


Jumbo said: Honestly, I don't understand the complaints about this year's schedule. I think it's one of the better schedules Duke has played in a while. Seriously, the complaints (especially at this point in the season) boggle my mind.


I ended up steering this thread around toward scheduling when someone asked me to clarify why I wasn't thrilled with the way K, imo, worked the system with our OOC sked this year. This didn't start as a thread to predict a first-round loss because of scheduling.


Jumbo said: Fact: Duke faced six Tourney teams OOC (Marquette, Davidson, Indiana, Georgetown, Holy Cross, Gonzaga), and that doesn't include Air Force, an excellent team that suffered and inexplicable collapse.

And not a single one was in the opponent's home arena, which is a big part of what we have been talking about. In fact, all except marquette and air force were at Cameron, except Gonzaga, which was at MSG, a home away from home when a west coast team is the opposition. Also, Indiana was not by choice.

Jumbo said: Fact: Duke's home record in the ACC was 4-4. So was its road record. so, it's hard to say Duke was "shell-shocked" by going on the road in the ACC. More to the point, the ACC was a ridiculously tough conference this year. Everyone was good. I find it difficult to believe one tough road game would have prepared the team any differently than facing a team of Georgetown's caliber anywhere or teams like Marquette, Air Force and Gonzaga on neutral floors.

"Shell-shocked" refers to how they reacted early in the conference season, when they had to play their first real road game all year at Georgia Tech. I think it's fair to say we were not ready for that contest. A road game against a major-conference opponent early in the season would have helped immensely in that regard. At this point, yes, they've got some experience but I'm saying why wait until the conference season, when the games are so much more important?

Jumbo said: Fact: Regardless of who Duke's lack of OOC road games, it just played a brutal ACC schedule, including a host of tough road games. This team is nothing if not battle-tested by this point.


this is largely true. I argue that they'd be even better prepared had they seen more tough competition early but there is no doubt that this year's ACC was quite the crucible.


Jumbo said: Fact: It takes two to tango in terms of scheduling. Duke has discussed series with different schools, and some of those schools demand things Duke isn't willing to do. Others want no part of the Cameron half of the series. You can't get on K for scheduling when you aren't aware what other schools are willing to do.


Again, there are two ways this works. In the case of duke scheduling a mid-major or low-major, K can completely call the shots. It's way too big an opportunity for them to say no to Duke. In any given year, K could play one and dones in the home gym of valpo, george mason, vcu and a hundred other teams if he wanted. Not saying that would be ideal but it's completely up to him. Now, with a power team, you quite correct, it's a negotiation. But the point is, K has had plenty of opportunities. And he has been involved in home-and-homes in the past. He has changed his philosophy on this in that he is no longer adding new ones and has allowed the st.john's and temple series to fester on (perhaps for recruiting purposes) despite the loooooong downtrend for both programs. For reasons already explained, I think this is a bad idea. Now you may say "how do you know what he has tried to do?" But I ask you, what is more likely, that NOT ONE TOP-TIER PROGRAM is willing to play us home-and-home or that K is the reason we're no longer playing those games?

Jumbo said: Fact: Series deals can cover a span of years, and there's no way to predict how good a team would be. Some fans had suggested a home-and-home with Syracuse. Well, Cuse missed the Tourney this year. People would have written that game off the same way they wrote off playing at Indiana last year. Other perennial powers like Kentucky, Arizona and Michigan State were all seeded eighth or lower. Simply put, if you sign a deal with a team, just about any team, in fact, you run the risk of that program declining in quality.


Absolutely correct. And K has shown that he will get out of them when a long-standing contract no longer suits his needs. Perfect case in point, the end of the michigan series. But that didn't happen because Michigan had fallen on hard times. It happened because Amaker took the job there. Series over. Review: St. John's falls off, we keep playing. Michigan falls off, we only stop when one of K's former players becomes the coach.



Jumbo said: I really, really think that at this point, scheduling is a non-issue. And I'll fight anyone tooth and nail who claims Duke played a weak schedule this year.

It's not just who you play, it's where you play them; and when it comes to discerning schedule philosophy, it's also why.

[devildownunder]

VCU is really quick. They don't really have anyone Zoubek can guard effectively. I would not expect to see him play much.

what if, and i'm seriously just throwing this out here, we played some zone and let him rebound and try to block shots? better defense against dribble penetration, maximize our height advantage, etc? Don't say it can't happen!