Survivor: Finale

[JasonEvans]

I think that Amanda had the votes going into the final faceoff with the jury, but Todd was so smooth in his jury answers. I knew it was a landslide the moment Todd answered Jean-Robert's question.

The best moment of the episode, heck best moment of the season, came when Amanda essentially admitted that she was about to backstab Denise and Todd made sure to point it out to the jury. He kept on saying it was an accident, but I am not sure I believe him. I think that moment won the game for him as it reminded everyone that Amanda was just as much a backstabber as Todd was.

I paused the TIVO when Todd made the comment about Amanda turning on Denise and said to my wife, "if Amanda has a brain, she needs to switch her vote to Todd right now!! I don't care if it just makes the vote 2-2, she cannot go up against Todd in front of the jury. He's too smart and will win the jury over."

I also think Amanda waay overplayed the sad looks at the jury. She may have thought it made her look sympathetic, but to the folks who got voted out it just reminded them that she had backstabbed them.

Someone explain to me how Amanda wrote Denise's name down after promissing not to? I mean, she could have still gotten Denise voted out by writign Courtney's name down (2-1-1 would have been the vote) and then she would have kept her word to Denise. Stupid!! I am really surprised that amanda played the game so poorly at the end.

I actually thought Courtney fared pretty well in her faceoffs with the jury and she deserved the votes she got. for a second my wife thought Courtney might have enough votes to win.

As an aside, was there anything more pathetic than Jamie's strange rant/questions? Damn, the people in this game hold grudges for a long time!! The only thing that came close was Denise's ridiculous "I'm a poor lunch lady with no life so you should pity me and take me to the finals" speech followed by her claim that she would have won the jury vote had she been up there. Uhhhh-- NOT!!!

--Jason "all-stars vs. fans in the next Survivor-- it has potential!" Evans

[feldspar]

I paused the TIVO when Todd made the comment about Amanda turning on Denise and said to my wife, "if Amanda has a brain, she needs to switch her vote to Todd right now!! I don't care if it just makes the vote 2-2, she cannot go up against Todd in front of the jury. He's too smart and will win the jury over."

I can see that, but I can also see Amanda not wanting to bring Denise to the jury debate and get whacked over the head over and over and over again with the "you said you had my back." You know that was going to get brought up again and I can understand Amanda wanting to stay as far away from that as possible. I think Amanda just underestimated how really sly Todd would be with his answers.

I probably didn't either. Todd just absolutely blew the jury away with his answer to Jean-Robert. I turned to my wife right after that and said "Todd just sealed the deal." He was very deserving.

I was also quite annoyed that Denise felt desperate enough to start piling on the guilt, and even continued that all over to the live finale. That was really annoying. I do feel sympathy for her and all, but life is life and Survivor is a game.

Pretty good finish to what was a run-of-the-mill season, though. I really hope to see James in the all-star group next season.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I was also quite annoyed that Denise felt desperate enough to start piling on the guilt, and even continued that all over to the live finale. That was really annoying. I do feel sympathy for her and all, but life is life and Survivor is a game.

Yeah, but it got her a $50,000 gift from the show's producer. Maybe she'll use it to get some Continuing Education and better her life, rather than just getting a new car and big screen TV, and she could easily do both. Nah. Hope she proves me wrong.

[blublood]

Yeah, but it got her a $50,000 gift from the show's producer. Maybe she'll use it to get some Continuing Education and better her life, rather than just getting a new car and big screen TV, and she could easily do both. Nah. Hope she proves me wrong.

Did anyone else think that sounded weird enough to not be the entire truth? I mean, I know in most states you can be fired for no reason at all, but you'd think the school district - if anything - would be happy to have a "celebrity" working with them. They had to know that she was going to be doing TV interviews and that if they fired her for being on Survivor, it was going to come out sooner or later and then they would look like jerks for beating up on poor ol' downtrodden Denise.

[mr. synellinden]

I think that Amanda had the votes going into the final faceoff with the jury, but Todd was so smooth in his jury answers. I knew it was a landslide the moment Todd answered Jean-Robert's question.

...

I paused the TIVO when Todd made the comment about Amanda turning on Denise and said to my wife, "if Amanda has a brain, she needs to switch her vote to Todd right now!! I don't care if it just makes the vote 2-2, she cannot go up against Todd in front of the jury. He's too smart and will win the jury over."

I thought Denise could have made a very smart/strategic play if she had done the following:

Pushed Amanda harder on her word not to write her name down at the final vote and, if necessary, plant the seed in her head that she could just vote for Courtney to keep her word. Then tell Amanda that as long as she doesn't write her name down, she has her jury vote, but if she does she is giving it to Todd. Let Amanda keep thinking that she wanted to vote out Todd. Assume that Amanda is smart enough to put Courtney's name down - she really takes no risk by doing so. Then Denise votes for Courtney and ends up in a tie with her - she has to think she is a better shot to beat Courtney in a tie-breaker than Todd anyway.

Of course, Denise blew the whole game by not flipping with Peih-Gee and Erik when she had the chance, as Jeff pointed out during the reunion. I thought it was interesting that Denise revealed Peih-Gee's stubbornness about flipping on Todd rather than Courtney and how that could have got Denise to flip and how that probably would have won Peih-Geeh the game.

I too was surprised that Amanda got beat so badly by Todd and got less votes than Courtney but she did a very poor job of answering jury questions and I think deserved to lose because of that. I got the sense from listening to her conversations that she wasn't as bright as Todd - that she could think one step ahead but not more than that, whereas Todd seemed to have a plan five steps ahead at all times.

I am happy to be done with this group and look forward to the next edition.

[JasonEvans]

Yeah, when Amanda pledged not to write Denise's name down, I said to the wife, "Denise needs to vote for Courtney, not Todd." I also thought Denise fell into the trap (sorta like PG did) of only thinking of one other potential boot. Why didn't Denise approach Todd and say "hey, rather than the two of us worrying about which of us is going to go, we should just get together and vote out Courtney. In fact, I think I can get Amanda to go along with that." But Denise was married to the idea of "Todd or me," which was a losing proposition for her.

I am not sure why you and Probst are so intrigued by the possibility of Denise flipping over to PG and Eric. If she had done that she would have really burned herself with the jury. There was no way she could win a jury vote after having backstabbed every single person on the jury like that. Denise made the only play that could allow her to win, it just did not work out. Flipping would have guaranteed her loss even if it would have taken her one step further in the game.

What's more, a Denise flip would have only given them a tie. I am not sure what tiebreaker they would have used but there is no guarantee that Denise's side would win the tiebreaker. I think it was a no-brainer for Denise not to switch sides.

The moment you really saw Amanda dying on the vine was when someone (I forget who) asked her how she was different/more deserving than Todd and she began discussing her strategy for taking out James and the she started stammering and stumbling a bit. I could tell she realized she had fallen into a trap and was making herself look bad while also eliminating any chance that James (or anyone sympathetic to him) would vote for her. Her mind was racing, trying to figure out how to get out of it but she could not come up with anything. In the end, she didn't even answer the question or make a case for her superiority to Todd but she certainly alientaed a large section of the jury. It also came only moments after Todd had totally outwitted Jean-Robert and silenced the arrogant poker player to the delight of everyone on the jury. The game was over at that point.

--Jason "I am sure the show will send James on the all-star edition... and probably PG too, even though I think she is a terrible player" Evans

[kexman]

I watched survivor 1 and I have caught bits and pieces since...less each year. Last nights 15 minutes was the first for the year. I watched the jury trial and everyone complained that people backstabbed and lied...isn't that the game?

I was just curious how the show has played out over the seasons...

has anyone been completely honest and won?

does the jury normally see backstabbing as part of the game or do they hold it against them in the jury votes.

Curious to what is the stereotypical winner or strategy after several seasons...I'm guessing it is very different now that contestants have see several years of shows to choose strategy.

[mr. synellinden]

Yeah, when Amanda pledged not to write Denise's name down, I said to the wife, "Denise needs to vote for Courtney, not Todd." I also thought Denise fell into the trap (sorta like PG did) of only thinking of one other potential boot. Why didn't Denise approach Todd and say "hey, rather than the two of us worrying about which of us is going to go, we should just get together and vote out Courtney. In fact, I think I can get Amanda to go along with that." But Denise was married to the idea of "Todd or me," which was a losing proposition for her.

I am not sure why you and Probst are so intrigued by the possibility of Denise flipping over to PG and Eric. If she had done that she would have really burned herself with the jury. There was no way she could win a jury vote after having backstabbed every single person on the jury like that. Denise made the only play that could allow her to win, it just did not work out. Flipping would have guaranteed her loss even if it would have taken her one step further in the game.

What's more, a Denise flip would have only given them a tie. I am not sure what tiebreaker they would have used but there is no guarantee that Denise's side would win the tiebreaker. I think it was a no-brainer for Denise not to switch sides.

The moment you really saw Amanda dying on the vine was when someone (I forget who) asked her how she was different/more deserving than Todd and she began discussing her strategy for taking out James and the she started stammering and stumbling a bit. I could tell she realized she had fallen into a trap and was making herself look bad while also eliminating any chance that James (or anyone sympathetic to him) would vote for her. Her mind was racing, trying to figure out how to get out of it but she could not come up with anything. In the end, she didn't even answer the question or make a case for her superiority to Todd but she certainly alientaed a large section of the jury. It also came only moments after Todd had totally outwitted Jean-Robert and silenced the arrogant poker player to the delight of everyone on the jury. The game was over at that point.

--Jason "I am sure the show will send James on the all-star edition... and probably PG too, even though I think she is a terrible player" Evans

I think Denise made a mistake because she knew she was #4 in her alliance and could only get to the top 3 by winning immunity. Whereas with PG and Erik, she is in the top 3 for sure - and as Jeff pointed out, that's where you have the chance to win the money and make your case. She may have been turning on Amanda, Courtney and Todd, but those three turned on enough people that they couldn't have taken the high road and held it against her. I think she would have gotten those three votes. And I think she would have gotten James's and Jean Robert's votes and won the whole thing. Remember, she didn't even know that JR was being voted out and I don't recall if she voted for James. I don't think she did but I still think she had a bond with James and he would have voted for her. Jamie would have voted for Erik. Frosti would have probably voted for Erik too. But I don't see any other guaranteed votes for PG or Erik. Maybe Todd or Courtney or Amanda would have not voted for her out of spite, but I think she would have had their sympathy and understanding because she was #4 and that was her best chance to win. The 50% chance in the tie vote scenario was better than the 25% chance she had to win the final four immunity.

I would be very disappointed to see PG in the next edition because she was a horrible player IMO and a whiner and very annoying. I would like to see James as well as Rafe, Terry, Ozzie, Jonathan, Yau Man, Sundra, Pavarti, Candice and Michelle(Fiji).

[DevilBen02]

Did anyone else think that sounded weird enough to not be the entire truth? I mean, I know in most states you can be fired for no reason at all, but you'd think the school district - if anything - would be happy to have a "celebrity" working with them. They had to know that she was going to be doing TV interviews and that if they fired her for being on Survivor, it was going to come out sooner or later and then they would look like jerks for beating up on poor ol' downtrodden Denise.

Interesting press release from Douglas Public School District: http://www.douglas.k12.ma.us/

Press Release: Mrs. Denise Martin
December 17, 2007
Douglas Public Schools

On the “Survivor China” television program that aired on December 16, 2007, Mrs. Denise Martin, an employee of the Douglas Public Schools, stated that she was demoted from her position as a cafeteria worker upon her return from taping the show. This statement is false. In fact, Mrs. Martin held a full-time position as a custodian prior to her participation in the series, and she returned to this same position upon her return from China. Mrs. Martin was granted - at her request - an unpaid leave of absence so that she could participate in the “Survivor” program. We were pleased and excited to support Denise, and have enthusiastically cheered her on throughout the duration of the show.

Although Mrs. Martin was a cafeteria employee prior to her selection as a contestant, she asked to be considered for a promotion to full-time custodian, and was promoted to this position on March 30, 2007. This promotion came with additional benefits and a higher salary. Following her leave, she then returned to this same position.

Regretfully, the Douglas Public School District was inaccurately portrayed as failing to be accommodating to an employee during what the District viewed as a “once-in-a-lifetime” opportunity. This is far from the case. On the contrary, we granted all requests made by Mrs. Martin so that she could participate in the “Survivor” series. Since Mrs. Martin was on an approved leave, her position was held open for her, and she returned to this same position upon her return from China. As a District, we make every effort to support our employees, and will continue to do so.

Nancy T. Lane
Superintendent of Schools

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Interesting press release from Douglas Public School District: http://www.douglas.k12.ma.us/

Press Release: Mrs. Denise Martin
December 17, 2007
Douglas Public Schools

On the “Survivor China” television program that aired on December 16, 2007, Mrs. Denise Martin, an employee of the Douglas Public Schools, stated that she was demoted from her position as a cafeteria worker upon her return from taping the show. This statement is false. In fact, Mrs. Martin held a full-time position as a custodian prior to her participation in the series, and she returned to this same position upon her return from China. Mrs. Martin was granted - at her request - an unpaid leave of absence so that she could participate in the “Survivor” program. We were pleased and excited to support Denise, and have enthusiastically cheered her on throughout the duration of the show.

Although Mrs. Martin was a cafeteria employee prior to her selection as a contestant, she asked to be considered for a promotion to full-time custodian, and was promoted to this position on March 30, 2007. This promotion came with additional benefits and a higher salary. Following her leave, she then returned to this same position.

Regretfully, the Douglas Public School District was inaccurately portrayed as failing to be accommodating to an employee during what the District viewed as a “once-in-a-lifetime” opportunity. This is far from the case. On the contrary, we granted all requests made by Mrs. Martin so that she could participate in the “Survivor” series. Since Mrs. Martin was on an approved leave, her position was held open for her, and she returned to this same position upon her return from China. As a District, we make every effort to support our employees, and will continue to do so.

Nancy T. Lane
Superintendent of Schools

Sounds like she "embellished" her situation. Wonder if the producers will reconsider their "gift" to her since it appears she lied to them. Oh, wait, this IS Survivor. Liars prosper - that's the game! Kudo's to Denise.

[JasonEvans]

I watched survivor 1 and I have caught bits and pieces since...less each year. Last nights 15 minutes was the first for the year. I watched the jury trial and everyone complained that people backstabbed and lied...isn't that the game?

I was just curious how the show has played out over the seasons...

has anyone been completely honest and won?

does the jury normally see backstabbing as part of the game or do they hold it against them in the jury votes.

Curious to what is the stereotypical winner or strategy after several seasons...I'm guessing it is very different now that contestants have see several years of shows to choose strategy.

The winner almost always has members of the jury who see them as backstabbers. You have to have an alliance of 5 or 6 at some point to get to the point where you can backstab some of the 5 or 6 to get down to being the final 3. Generally, the backstabbing comes before the other folks expect it, otherwise it would not work, and that always leaves people mad. It is the same almost every season.

The only season that stands out as different was Survivor Palau when a guy named Tom won it all. Tom was an older NYFD fireman who was in great shape. He dominated in challenges so much that his tribe elminated every single member of the other tribe before a single member of his tribe was taken out (I think one really old guy left but I forget why-- it may have been a "both tribes vote someone out" kinda thing). It was unreal domination. Then, once his tribe was pretty much all that was left in the game, he kept on winning immunity so his tribe never had a chance to turn on him. He won the whole thing in a walk and no one considered him a backstabber. In fact, the backstabber was Tom's best friend on the show, who ended up going out in 3rd place and volunteering to be eliminated because he felt so guilty about his backstabbing. It was surreal.

Aside from that, it is mostly backstabbers who make it to the end... mostly.

--Jason "I think Earl from Fiji was also well-liked and not a backstabber, though he would never have won if Dreamz had not pulled the biggest backstab ever and gotten rid of the beloved Yaoman" Evans