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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by formerdukeathlete View Post
    I say, if Neuheisel would take the job, we have to interview him and seriously consider him as a candidate.
    I agree 100%. Look, we are talking about a job perceived to to one of the toughest jobs in college football. If you want to shoot for something exceptional, you will have to look outside the box (or just be very lucky). A guy who was very successful at major programs, but made mistakes and is somewhat of an outcast is exactly who we should be considering. I don't know enough about the violations to assess the degree of concern, and, like Jim said, his explanation for those situations would be of critical importance. Maybe he's the right guy, maybe not, but I think it would be foolhardy not to seriously consider candidates such as this.
    "Just like you man. I got the shotgun, you got the briefcase." Omar Little

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by killerleft View Post
    OK, I signed the petition. Why not interview him? Check his story, re-check the facts, make a decision about that. If he passes the test, then decide whether he is the man for the job. What's the problem?

    Agree completely. I do not understand, given the recommendations from sterling, successful football people, why we wouldn't interview RN.

    If we don't, Duke comes off with both the arrogant tag we get all the time and a "holier than thou" attitude.

    It seems that some people want to ensure Duke football success...but only on a modest level. That's the sense I get from who they've interviewed so far (Johnson excepted).

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Parts Unknown
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post

    Yes, I want Duke to field a championship football team. I've been going to Wade since Johnson (Lyndon not Andrew) was president, so I've seen the long, slow decline at first hand. But I also am proud of the fact that Duke football has always been run under the highest ethical standards and I darn well want to make absolutely certain that it continues to be run under those standards. I trust that the people responsible for hiring Duke's next football coach share that sentiment.
    He was 22-15 over his last few years, and it appears he was dropping off. That doesn't sound like a championship coach to me.

  4. #44
    I think the CU and Washington communities know a lot more about RN than most of us, and when I have talked to alums of both those schools, they are happy that he is gone. That is not the kind of candidate I am excited about... someone who was disliked at his last two jobs.

    There's plenty of reasons why this guy has not been given a third chance. I don't know why anyone thinks he is the anaswer for Duke. If he's our best hope, we don't really have a chance.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeb View Post
    I think the CU and Washington communities know a lot more about RN than most of us, and when I have talked to alums of both those schools, they are happy that he is gone. That is not the kind of candidate I am excited about... someone who was disliked at his last two jobs.

    There's plenty of reasons why this guy has not been given a third chance. I don't know why anyone thinks he is the anaswer for Duke. If he's our best hope, we don't really have a chance.

    Interesting insights. I don't know enough about the man to judge. However, I see nothing to lose in hearing what RN has to say. The more people they listen to and consider, the more informed their final decision will be.

    I am most concerned however about the rather low threshold for who appears to be in contention for the HC job.

    Hopefully, there's stuff going on that's completely off the radar. I would actually prefer Hatcher or Clawson but ....

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by diablesseblu View Post
    If we don't, Duke comes off with both the arrogant tag we get all the time and a "holier than thou" attitude.

    It seems that some people want to ensure Duke football success...but only on a modest level. That's the sense I get from who they've interviewed so far (Johnson excepted).
    We're so bad we have to take a chance on someone with a less-than-good reputation. That iseems to be the general theme here and on local sports radio.

    I think the simple answer to that is, "no we don't". As a football fan and season ticket holder who has only missed three games in five years I'm real clear on where I stand on this. You never have to willingly hire someone who has ethics and behavior you find questionable. You can if you choose to, and you may see short-term success more quickly, but you don't have to.

    If people want to perceive us as arrogant because we choose not to interview a coach who has a history of NCAA violations let them hold their opinion.

    It is not that we only want football success on a modest level, it is that we only want football success if it can be done in a respectable way.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Acworth, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by ugadevil View Post
    I'll sign the petition if Rick agrees to put Duke in the Final Four in his NCAA Tournament Bracket.

    OK - I get it - AND THAT'S FUNNY AS HELL!

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by allenmurray View Post
    We're so bad we have to take a chance on someone with a less-than-good reputation. That iseems to be the general theme here and on local sports radio.

    I think the simple answer to that is, "no we don't". As a football fan and season ticket holder who has only missed three games in five years I'm real clear on where I stand on this. You never have to willingly hire someone who has ethics and behavior you find questionable. You can if you choose to, and you may see short-term success more quickly, but you don't have to.

    If people want to perceive us as arrogant because we choose not to interview a coach who has a history of NCAA violations let them hold their opinion.

    It is not that we only want football success on a modest level, it is that we only want football success if it can be done in a respectable way.
    I agree Allen. Duke cannot sacrifice integrity in the name of winning. We have not done that in the past and should not now. I am always proud of the fact that the Duke way is by following the rules, all the rules.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Meeting with Marie Laveau

    Well said!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by allenmurray View Post
    We're so bad we have to take a chance on someone with a less-than-good reputation. That iseems to be the general theme here and on local sports radio.

    I think the simple answer to that is, "no we don't". As a football fan and season ticket holder who has only missed three games in five years I'm real clear on where I stand on this. You never have to willingly hire someone who has ethics and behavior you find questionable. You can if you choose to, and you may see short-term success more quickly, but you don't have to.

    If people want to perceive us as arrogant because we choose not to interview a coach who has a history of NCAA violations let them hold their opinion.

    It is not that we only want football success on a modest level, it is that we only want football success if it can be done in a respectable way.
    Well said indeed! It's time that the expectation of excellence is applied to our football program. Clean programs are expected at Duke. We should look for nothing less.

    I, too, am a season ticket holder and have made a point of supporting the football program by my presence in Wallace Wade for 30 years. The football players we recruit deserve the same high level of coaching we try to provide in other sports.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    I don't see what Duke has to lose by talking to him.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Parts Unknown
    Quote Originally Posted by killerleft View Post
    I don't see what Duke has to lose by talking to him.
    I don't see what they have to gain?

  12. #52

    wait a minute

    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    I agree Allen. Duke cannot sacrifice integrity in the name of winning. We have not done that in the past and should not now. I am always proud of the fact that the Duke way is by following the rules, all the rules.
    Many of us do not know Neuheisel from adam. At U Dub he was fired for participating in a NCAA bb bracket, and whatever else was going on behind the scenes. And, a compliance person had told him it was ok to participate in the bracket.

    However, Joe Paterno does know this guy. I would submit that Joe Pa is an honest person of good judgment. He is also generous, agreeing to work for 500k a year. So, what would have prompted him to make the call to DB? I submit it is because he believes in Neuheisel.

    with our NCAA compliance staff, and tight reins on the athletic department, we have little to lose with a Neuheisel hire. Neuheisel has something unique to sell this go around. He has instant street cred. We have little to lose and a lot potentially to gain. He is an OC in the NFL. He is still young. He can coach. Our current players will listen to this guy, be in awe, no more "family" this and that. Just work hard in the classroom, succeed on the field, maybe make it to the NFL (guess what kids, I, "RN," will help you get there if anyone can) and then succeed in the game of life.

    Nothing in our hiring him suggests that we plan on breaking rules. In fact the unlikelihood that he would break rules at Duke makes Duke a potentially perfect place for him to become a head coach again.

    Interview the guy. What would K say? I think he would say interivew the guy.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Parts Unknown
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil in the Blue Dress View Post
    Well said indeed! It's time that the expectation of excellence is applied to our football program. Clean programs are expected at Duke. We should look for nothing less.

    I, too, am a season ticket holder and have made a point of supporting the football program by my presence in Wallace Wade for 30 years. The football players we recruit deserve the same high level of coaching we try to provide in other sports.
    yes it was...

    In a different thread an article was posted by David Glenn. Although I question his accuracy I found this quote interesting:

    Duke made an excellent presentation and left no doubt they are committed to restoring Duke football to national prominence," Jack Reale, Johnson's agent, said Sunday. "They made clear their willingness to allocate whatever resources are necessary to accomplish this objective. The next coach will be coming into a very attractive circumstance.
    Last edited by Bluedawg; 12-11-2007 at 10:28 AM. Reason: spell check

  14. #54

    the integrity of Duke football

    Have been attending games at WW since the late 50s. I in no way want Duke to compromise the standard of excellence and integrity that we all are proud of.

    That being said, given the recommendations of people like Joe Pa, I see no downside in at least talking to RN. Maybe the members of the committee might at least learn something that would help them in their search.

    Have interviewed tens of thousands of candidates for competitive positions over the years. I always learned something from each one...even the ones I knew we would not be hiring. Quite often, they had done the most "homework" and offered insights & suggestions that we later considered.

    I simply don't "get" why if we are (understandably) reaching out to groups like the BCA, we wouldn't extend at least a courtesy interview to RN given who has called on his behalf.

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedawg View Post
    I don't see what they have to gain?
    Possibly a very good football coach? There seems to be conflicting info regarding his "evilness".

    Anybody remember Pressler? Not the same situation by any means, but it does show how coaches can be fired for things beyond their control, or because of dubious reasons.

  16. #56

    No, no, a thousand times NO!

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeDevil View Post
    I do not know Jim Sumner, but based on the opinions and insights he has posted on this this board I respect him tremendously. Jim, you wrong about this one. Your argument is essentially a moral one: Neuheisel did bad ergo he is bad. If there ever was a situation in need of redemption--as is Neuheisel himself--it is Duke football. Neuheisel should be chastened by now, His "sin' was that he irritated Barbara Hedges with his cutesy around the margins response to whether or not he placed bets in a basketball pool. Clearly this kind of behavior will not fly at Duke, nor should it. But I emphatically repeat, this should not disqualify him from consideration. The infractions were, in fact, fairly minor and he was completely exonerated of any gambling infractions.
    This is so much BS that it makes me want to hurl.

    I definitely favor giving people second chances. But the accumulation of Neuheisal's transgressions has him on his umpteenth chance so far.

    Start with the 51 violations at Colorado. Yes, many of them were minor -- some were not. But the total accumulation of violations is a concern and did earn Colorado two years of probation.

    If that was it, I could see giving him a second chance.

    Did Neuheisal learn from his mistakes and admit his errors?

    Well, no, as soon as he arrived at Washington, he was caught making illegal contacts with recruits during a dead period. Not only that, he contacted several players who had committed to him at Colorado and tried to lure them to Washington instead -- not in itself an NCAA violation (except the contacts occurred during a dead period), but a breach of coaching ethics.

    The University of Washington admitted the violations and imposed its own recruiting sanctions of Neuheisal, reducing his allowed off-campus visits from 29 to 9. Neuheisal later brags about how he "creatively" got around the penalty (his favorite trick was to drive past a player's house, use his cell phone to call the kid out and have a "bump")

    On Jan. 9, 2003, Neuheisal is officially censured by the American Football Coaches Association for "lack of remorse" for his documented recruiting violations (so much from learning from your mistakes). Neuheisal brags again that when it comes to the rules, he's not a cheater, hut "creative".

    A month later (just after signing day), Neuheisal is linked in print to the San Francisco 49ers coaching job. Neuheisal flat out lies to the media, denying any contact and any interest in the job. It turns out that he was lying ... which is not any kind of violation, but it's also reported (but not confirmed) that Neuheisal lied to his bosses at UW. The University President gives a weird interview where he refuses to address the question and also refuses to discuss whether the university considered firing him over the incident.

    It's two months later when the NCAA betting pool story explodes. While it is a clear NCAA violation, Neuheisal's defense is that he got permission from the school's compliance officer to participate (although the school's compliance officer does not have the right to give that permission).

    He's where it gets hairy. This fact is not in dispute: When first confronted by an NCAA investigator, Neuheisal lied about his participation in the pool. It's not clear whether he initially lied to Washington officials or not -- but eight days after lying to the NCAA, Neuheisal was suspended and given termination notice at Washington.

    Later, he sued the university of Washington for wrongful termination. The lawsuit was settled ... he did NOT win the lawsuit and he was NOT exonerated.

    Seriously, the level of denial about this guy's long track record of dishonesty reminds me of Carolina fans who keep trying to convince themselves that Larry Brown never cheated and it wasn't his fault that he got UCLA and Kansas both put on probation.

    And for what? Neuheisal inherited a Colorado program that was at the top after Bill McCartney's tenure ... after back-to-back 10-2 records with McCartney's players, he went 5-6 and 8-4 the next two years. At Washington, he inherited a program that had dominated the Pac 10 most of the 90s and had one great season -- an 11-1 Rose Bowl year. His other three years were 22-15 -- finishing with a 7-6 mark in his last two seasons.

    Both times he's been a head coach he lied and cheated. Both programs he headed were worse off at the end of his tenure than when he took over.

    To quote Jonathan Chait of Slate Magazine:

    "The real crime, though, is not that Neuheisel was fired. It's that he was
    fired in such a way as to preserve his reputation. Here is a man so richly
    deserving of a pink slip that his dismissal on such minor grounds leaves a
    sour taste. It's sort of like nabbing Al Capone for tax evasion. They got
    the right guy for the wrong reason."

    There's a reason his alma mater, UCLA, refuses to consider this guy. There's a reason Georgia Tech refused to interview him.

    I pray that Duke has the same good sense.

  17. #57

    Agree Completely And

    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    This is so much BS that it makes me want to hurl.

    I definitely favor giving people second chances. But the accumulation of Neuheisal's transgressions has him on his umpteenth chance so far.

    Start with the 51 violations at Colorado. Yes, many of them were minor -- some were not. But the total accumulation of violations is a concern and did earn Colorado two years of probation.

    If that was it, I could see giving him a second chance.

    Did Neuheisal learn from his mistakes and admit his errors?

    Well, no, as soon as he arrived at Washington, he was caught making illegal contacts with recruits during a dead period. Not only that, he contacted several players who had committed to him at Colorado and tried to lure them to Washington instead -- not in itself an NCAA violation (except the contacts occurred during a dead period), but a breach of coaching ethics.

    The University of Washington admitted the violations and imposed its own recruiting sanctions of Neuheisal, reducing his allowed off-campus visits from 29 to 9. Neuheisal later brags about how he "creatively" got around the penalty (his favorite trick was to drive past a player's house, use his cell phone to call the kid out and have a "bump")

    On Jan. 9, 2003, Neuheisal is officially censured by the American Football Coaches Association for "lack of remorse" for his documented recruiting violations (so much from learning from your mistakes). Neuheisal brags again that when it comes to the rules, he's not a cheater, hut "creative".

    A month later (just after signing day), Neuheisal is linked in print to the San Francisco 49ers coaching job. Neuheisal flat out lies to the media, denying any contact and any interest in the job. It turns out that he was lying ... which is not any kind of violation, but it's also reported (but not confirmed) that Neuheisal lied to his bosses at UW. The University President gives a weird interview where he refuses to address the question and also refuses to discuss whether the university considered firing him over the incident.

    It's two months later when the NCAA betting pool story explodes. While it is a clear NCAA violation, Neuheisal's defense is that he got permission from the school's compliance officer to participate (although the school's compliance officer does not have the right to give that permission).

    He's where it gets hairy. This fact is not in dispute: When first confronted by an NCAA investigator, Neuheisal lied about his participation in the pool. It's not clear whether he initially lied to Washington officials or not -- but eight days after lying to the NCAA, Neuheisal was suspended and given termination notice at Washington.

    Later, he sued the university of Washington for wrongful termination. The lawsuit was settled ... he did NOT win the lawsuit and he was NOT exonerated.

    Seriously, the level of denial about this guy's long track record of dishonesty reminds me of Carolina fans who keep trying to convince themselves that Larry Brown never cheated and it wasn't his fault that he got UCLA and Kansas both put on probation.

    And for what? Neuheisal inherited a Colorado program that was at the top after Bill McCartney's tenure ... after back-to-back 10-2 records with McCartney's players, he went 5-6 and 8-4 the next two years. At Washington, he inherited a program that had dominated the Pac 10 most of the 90s and had one great season -- an 11-1 Rose Bowl year. His other three years were 22-15 -- finishing with a 7-6 mark in his last two seasons.

    Both times he's been a head coach he lied and cheated. Both programs he headed were worse off at the end of his tenure than when he took over.

    To quote Jonathan Chait of Slate Magazine:

    "The real crime, though, is not that Neuheisel was fired. It's that he was
    fired in such a way as to preserve his reputation. Here is a man so richly
    deserving of a pink slip that his dismissal on such minor grounds leaves a
    sour taste. It's sort of like nabbing Al Capone for tax evasion. They got
    the right guy for the wrong reason."

    There's a reason his alma mater, UCLA, refuses to consider this guy. There's a reason Georgia Tech refused to interview him.

    I pray that Duke has the same good sense.
    First of all Neuheisal appears to be interested in the Duke job. I am not sure if Duke is interested in him.

    Secondly, when Washington hired Neuheisal they were getting a coach with baggage. He promised to be honest. He then lied. How could Duke trust him?

    As for as giving him a second or third chance, look he is an offensive coordinator in the NFL. Not a bad gig.

    I really doubt if JA wants to hire a guy that he will have to watch like a hawk.

    SoCal

  18. #58

    Read more about him; started as a walkon; 3.4 GPA before grade inflation

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalDukeFan View Post
    Secondly, when Washington hired Neuheisal they were getting a coach with baggage. He promised to be honest. He then lied. How could Duke trust him?

    I really doubt if JA wants to hire a guy that he will have to watch like a hawk.

    SoCal

    about participating in a NCAA b ball bracket which apparently a compliance advisor at the athletic department had ok-ed in advance?

    and, watching Neuheisel like a hawk? come on. We have compliance people who track, audit recruiting practices, itineraries, expenses.

    Folks on the board have their opinions, preferences, however, I see little harm in interviewing this man.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Neuheisel

    I suggest read more about him.

    This guy went to UCLA as an out-of-state studen from Arizona, without an athletic scholarship. So, he got in, he had high SATs, and while at UCLA, notwithstanding working his way to a starting position as QB his senior year, he earned a 3.4 GPA before grade inflation.

    So, he would have been the kind of guy Duke would have liked to attend our University and play Football. Smart, hard-working.

    He did it, he has to value it.

    Interview the guy. I say hire the guy.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    This is baffling. When did Rick Neuheisel become Amos Alonzo Stagg?

    The guy was mediocre at best at his last two stops. Why would we take a chance on seeing if he's cleaned up his act when he wasn't that great a coach to begin with?

  20. #60
    His "creative" recruiting tactics sound a lot like the ones Billy Donovan caught so much heat for on these boards a few years back.

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