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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC

    North Carolina State

    just lost to East Carolina.

    Seriously.

    75-69

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Chapel Hill

    State loses to ECU

    I just watch the Wolfpack lose to ECU at ECU. The Pirates are likely a good team and State is clearly just generally out of sync. However, the Pack was uninspired, mentally soft and not playing well as a team most of the way. Tonight they played well below their ability. It made me think about the Blue Devils last year. We too were out of sync and not playing well together as a team. However, last year's Devils showed heart and toughness game in game out that was completely missing from State tonight. I think we will find that the trials of last season will be lessons well applied this season. I can't wait to find out.
    GTHC

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Watching carolina Go To HELL!
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    just lost to East Carolina.

    Seriously.

    75-69
    At the end of the game (color commentator) Tony Haines said State needs to learn that it is going to get every teams best shot, and they have to be ready. Welcome to our world!
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    https://ecogreen.greentechaffiliate.com

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    If I can ready body language through a really bad TV picture, State's body language looked terrible.

    The low point came with State down 69-64 and Costner at the foul line. Costner is a 90 percent foul shooter. Not only did he miss both, but he shot an airball on the second. An airball.

    I know it's December and lots of teams have turned around bad Decembers into good Marches but State appears to have been terribly overrated at the beginning of the season. And yes, I thought they were a top-25 team.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Chapel Hill

    No kidding about the body language

    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    If I can ready body language through a really bad TV picture, State's body language looked terrible.
    I tell my eleven year old that you can't play basketball with your arms hanging down at your sides. Tonight I repeatedly saw State players away from the ball on offense with their hands below their waist watching their teammate with the ball instead moving and being ready to make a play. It was like they were waiting for someone else to do the work.
    Last edited by Bob Green; 12-09-2007 at 02:49 AM. Reason: Fix quote tag
    GTHC

  6. #6

    state flops

    I've been defending NC State, but this was horrible.

    The end of this game was excrutiating to watch.

    Jim mentions Costner's two misses. The whole thing started with two minutes left and the game tied at 64-all. Grant (9-of-9 for the night) goes to the line to put State ahead ... he bricks both.

    ECU comes down and hits an unguarded 3 (the guy, who has already hit five 3s, is dribbling the ball just outside the line. Nobody guards him, so he knocks it down). I saw ECU steal a lazy inbounds pass ... I didn't get to see the score because the TV station doing the game switched to a replay of the go-ahead 3 and when we came back, the teams were in timeout and ECU is up 69-64, but still with 96 seconds left.

    Okay, State comes down and Hickson blows a layup. Costner rebounds and gets fouled. He goes to the line for two. A 90 percent FT shooter. He bricks the first. Air balls the second.

    ECU comes down and draws a foul. The guy misses the first of a 1-and-1 ... but State loses the rebound and has to foul again. This time, the ECU shooter makes both and it's 71-64.

    State comes down and Grant goes to the line again. Okay, State was 21-of-23 at the line going into the last two minutes before missing four in a row. This time Grant hits one, but misses the second. Hickson gets the rebound and, doing his best Cozel McQueen imitation, launches a six-footer. Unfortunately, he's three feet from the basket, so the ball misses everything.

    ECU rebounded and at that point, I switched over to Marquette-Wisconson.

  7. #7
    I love it myself... some wolfpack fans can be worse than UNC ones

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Two words for everyone:

    DERECK WHITTENBURG!!

    I still cannot believe State did not even interview him for the job. Grrrrr.

    Sidney Lowe may be finding that living up to expectations with a good team is a bit harder than exceeding expectations with a lousy team.

    Should State be surprised at this? I mean, were they aware that Lowe's career coaching record was 79-228 (a winning percentage of .257) prior to taking the State job?

    I am intrigued at how much trouble they are having adding a stud freshman like Hickson. He is putting up big numbers but it is at the expense of their two stud big men from last year. Costner and McCauley are mere shadows of the players they were a year ago.

    Code:
    Name (year)             PPG     FG%    RPG       
    Costner (2006-07)     16.8    47.4    7.3
    Costner (2007-08)     10.5    33.3    5.7
    McCauley (06-07)      14.4    58.4    6.9
    McCauley (07-08)       4.3    37.0    3.0
    Folks, that is not what is supposed to happen to upperclassmen.

    I know State's guard play has been horrid and the inability of the guards to get it to the post players in good position is clearly a lot of what is behind State's problems but still... sheesh!! State's top two players have gone from averaging a combined 31 ppg and 14 rpg to 14 ppg and 8 rpg. Gaaaack!!

    --Jason "I know Hickson is getting some of Cost and McC's minutes, but not enough to justify this much of a falloff in production" Evans

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    As an aside, this loss will hurt State if it is a bubble team come March. ECU was only 1-5 against Division I opponents coming into this game with losses to Liberty and Winthrop. They were rated #280 by Sagarin and #241 by the RPI. I know it is still early but it would seem extremely likely that ECU will end the season as one of the bottom 100 teams in college basketball (there are 341 Division I teams). A loss to a team like that is BAD LOSS on your NCAA tourney resume, make no mistake about it.

    If NC State goes 8-8 or so in the ACC and is a big-time bubble team, this is just the kind of loss that can turn the committee against you. Really, really bad.

    --Jason "the way things look now, Miami, BC, FSU, and Virginia have to be considered stronger ACC contenders than NC State and Ga Tech" Evans

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2007

    Maybe Sidney should enroll his players this summer

    at a school like Duke that has a terrific Chemistry department.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Jason, you're right about the bubble team aspect. But if the State team I saw last night goes 8-8 in the ACC, then the ACC is worse than any of us could possibly imagined.

    I know, I know, it was one game. State could turn it around and I alluded to that in my original post. And I hope they do. But last night did not look like an off-night to me, it looked like a very troubled team heading in the wrong direction and doing so in a hurry.

    BTW, OF alluded to missing a key part of the game. The game was a local broadcast and I cannot begin to tell you how bad the production values were. Cameras, sound, graphics, lighting, production decisions, pretty much the whole ball of wax. I suspect there are high schools that could have done a better job.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Western North Carolina

    Getting in Bed with the Devil

    I think this NCSU team is a prime example of the potential downside of a one-and-done player. Hickson is a great talent, no doubt. But, his prime position is the same one occupied by NCSU's best returning players in Costner and McCauley.

    And Hickson is clearly showcasing his talents for the NBA draft next summer. I am not saying the losing is his fault per se, but he does not seem to be willing to sublimate himself for the betterment of the team. As long as he gets his, and he WILL get his, he seems to be OK.

    Not that it is all his fault. McCauley and Coster both seem unwilling to step sideways in the face of a vastly superior talent, which Hickson is. It makes Nate-Dogs sacrifice all the more significant and noteworthy. When K moved Duhon to the starting lineup, Nate could have made a huge stink, but didn't.

    A top notch, pass first PG could right this ship. Unfortunately, there aren't any of those on NCSU's roster. NCSU might be nowhere near close to 8-8 this year. I only see WFU, GT, Miami, and BC as being clearly beatable by NCSU, and NCSU will drop some of those as well.

    Patrick Yates

  13. #13
    Certainly appears to be serious chemistry issues with that team. I guess it could be just a bumpy stretch to be worked out. Or maybe Lowe was the beneficiary of the discipline instilled by Sendek, a discipline he is failing to teach the new players? I could even see where disciplined players might have flourished under Lowe's lightern hand on the reins last year. But now he's trying to bring in new players who haven't been drilled with Sendek's fundementals.

    Hard to be sure, but this team just looks uncertain of what to do and when to do it. Maybe they just got to bigheaded from last year's success and the predictions for this year and forgot just how hard they still have to work?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Mebane, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Sixthman View Post
    I just watch the Wolfpack lose to ECU at ECU. The Pirates are likely a good team and State is clearly just generally out of sync. However, the Pack was uninspired, mentally soft and not playing well as a team most of the way. Tonight they played well below their ability. It made me think about the Blue Devils last year. We too were out of sync and not playing well together as a team. However, last year's Devils showed heart and toughness game in game out that was completely missing from State tonight. I think we will find that the trials of last season will be lessons well applied this season. I can't wait to find out.
    I no that people want to think that ECU is good, but they are not
    I was at the game and NCSU came out like they were the LA Lakers or the Boston Celtics. They have no rythm and it just looked like they were'nt playing like they wanted to win, once the big men start playing together they will be good and a threat to anyone, but now i would reather be the coach of a division 3 school than NCSU.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfpackdevil View Post
    I no that people want to think that ECU is good, but they are not
    I was at the game and NCSU came out like they were the LA Lakers or the Boston Celtics. They have no rythm and it just looked like they were'nt playing like they wanted to win, once the big men start playing together they will be good and a threat to anyone, but now i would reather be the coach of a division 3 school than NCSU.
    ECU is most definitely not a good team. Not even kind of. This team was 6-24 last year, including 1-15 in Conference USA (which itself is not good). They did not notch a conference win until senior night against UTEP, who themselves had a losing record last season. Their previous wins this season came against mighty Limestone, NC Wesleyan, and (somewhat mystifyingly) George Mason. They have lost at home this season to Richmond and Liberty. Liberty couldn't even beat Kentucky! To top it off, until the other night, ECU's all-time record vs. ACC teams was 0-57 (no, seriously...0-57). This is an unmitigated embarrassment for State (and the conference, if they're really our 3rd or 4th best team, though they pretty clearly aren't right now). Sidney Lowe should be utterly ashamed of his conduct before the game (there was no reason to be so nervous about a game like that, or any game for that matter), and his team's play during it. Pathetic.

  16. #16
    I'm not sure how you reconcile this with the win over Villanova in PR. If NCSU goes on to have a decent season, its probably a wash in the bubble analysis, which is too bad since the win should have gone a long way towards getting them in.

    If they don't have a good season, well... Villanova better hope it doesn't find itself on the bubble (it shouldn't but hard to say given their schedule so far), or the loss could hurt them more than they expected.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    It's time once again to turn to the trusty transitive property of sporting supremacy. State lost by 6 to ECU, who lost by 2 to Liberty. Liberty, of course, fell to Kentucky by 26. Kentucky, however, lost to Gardner-Webb by 16. Gardner-Webb came up 3 points short against Radford, who lost to Campbell by 17. That means, of course, that the mighty 2-5 Campbell Fighting Camels are 36 points better than Kentucky, and 70 points better than NC State. We'd better lay some serious smack down on State this year, or Campbell will get the ACC's automatic bid.

    And with that post, I think I've been around EarlJam too long...

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by wilson View Post
    It's time once again to turn to the trusty transitive property of sporting supremacy. State lost by 6 to ECU, who lost by 2 to Liberty. Liberty, of course, fell to Kentucky by 26. Kentucky, however, lost to Gardner-Webb by 16. Gardner-Webb came up 3 points short against Radford, who lost to Campbell by 17. That means, of course, that the mighty 2-5 Campbell Fighting Camels are 36 points better than Kentucky, and 70 points better than NC State. We'd better lay some serious smack down on State this year, or Campbell will get the ACC's automatic bid.

    And with that post, I think I've been around EarlJam too long...
    FEAR THE CAMEL!!!



    --Jason

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham
    There's something about NC State that I can't really understand. On paper, this teams looks like they're legit (weren't they picked to finish #2 or #2 in the ACC?). But like one of the ESPN.com editors said the other day, the sum of their parts don't seem to add up to the individual talent. That's why I think Patrick might be onto something with his Hickson comments.

    Despite the fact that he graduated last year, this team is still a mess without Engin Atsur. They have no reliable PG play and it continues to haunt them. They really got bailed out against Villanova with that phantom foul and they're still only a game above .500. I know a lot of people are questioning the decision to bench McCauley in favor of Hickson when the Pack was really starting to play well towards the end of last season. Nobody's denying Hickson's abilities but I'm starting to question it as well...

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by wilson View Post
    We'd better lay some serious smack down on State this year, or Campbell will get the ACC's automatic bid.
    Campbell was where a couple people named Redick had an impact on the basketball court. With that tradition, they're bound to be great.

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