most undergrads don't take summer classes. i wasn't saying that a class that is offered both in the summer and during the normal school year will be different depending on when you take it. however, the quality of the students in the summer class is going to be much lower. how many students graduating phi beta kappa are taking summer classes? it therefore is a lot easier to get better grades in summer classes.
I understand your points, but I'm afraid I disagree that the quality of the student is going to be lower. Again, I see many students taking summer classes to advance more quickly, to cope with university/department requirements/offerings, to manage their schedules while coping with pre-professional demands (pre-med, pre-vet, etc...), and to get courses in to qualify for special study abroad/fellowship programs. And frankly, 6 of the last 7 Phi Beta Kappa students I have advised all took summer courses.
Cheers,
Lavabe
i thought you live in georgia? are you referring to duke PBK students because duke students generally hightail it out of durham in the summer? i don't recall any regular students taking summer classes when i was there. i know that some do but the overall quality of students in the summer classes was a big step down. think about it, if you have a class of 20 students and half of them are football and basketball players, how hard is it to get a good grade in it?
and pretty much spot on in the above.
football playes and basketball players have it a bit easier than other athletes with (in the past anyway) full access to tutors, summer school, throw training table in there, and whatever.
but out football players and basketball players work more at school (and have to do so) than many other schools with which we compete.
Here is where a Paul Johnson comes in I think - we go after smarter kids. Johnson sits in the living room with the kid and parents and says: "I assure you mr. and mrs. smith that your son will work like heck at Duke. He is going to practice harder, get stronger, put in more time in the library than you can imagine. And, if he slips up, and skips class, I will boot him off the team. As long as I am convinced he is doing everything in his power to develop as a football player he will keep his scholarship. And when he graduates, he will have good grades and interview for good jobs or go to graduate school, and Duke will help a bit in the admissions process there. I am not interested in just having someone graduate. I want them to excell."
This is basically Johnson's shtik right now, but throw in a military service commitment.
What a difference from when Roof met with Lewis and asked "How are the ladies treating you?"
Johnson's kids will have immense social opportunities as alpha males making it happen, getting prepared to excell in life after football. Paul knows this already from his Naval Academy kids. No need to ask.
I remember Summer I having an enrollment of about 500 when I was there taking intensive Greek 1-2. That's around 8% of the total Ugrad enrollment. And that doesn't include study-abroad programs that occur in the summer sessions.
I knew several people, non athletes, who finished in three years so as to save their parents exorbitant tuition in that 4th year.
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Nick was irregular in more ways than one
Just kidding. Nick was a very serious student. I talked with him briefly during his injury red shirt year and he said he planned to stay for 5 years and take some graduate level courses. He was, and is, a credit to Duke University.
Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!
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I was talking about where I am. I could swear that I saw an article in Chronicle of Higher Ed mentioning a national trend similar to what throaty just mentioned ... a lot of students today are taking summer school to get ahead in the process, and to cut down cost.
Cheers,
Lavabe
I think it is a number of factors. Cost, no summer job or only part-time work available, smaller classes, graduate early, complete a double major(or more!), a shade easier(?). I graduated in 3 1/2 years with a couple summer sessions(1 course each session), and 5 courses for each of 2 semesters and saved about $1250 in tuition costs by finishing 1 semester early. Plus, I was able to work those extra 4-5 months and make a few Franklins. Guess my year of graduation . OZZIE is not allowed to have a guess(hint). OTOH, my son studied abroad for 2 summer sessions at a cost of $5K or $6K total for the 8 weeks, had some AP credits, took several 1/4 or 1/2 credit courses during his stay and had an extra P/F course or two and graduated in 4 years, costing us the extra 5-6K instead of saving us about 15K in tuition . Lots of variables. Good discussion here.
When I started teaching in 1984 (not at Duke), there were some, but not a lot of students, who wanted to go to summer school. Therefore the teaching slots were rationed. When I retired in 2001, there were plenty of summer teaching jobs, and adjuncts were even used. I never actually taught in the summer, but according to the students I advised, there were three reasons: 1) It was good to take a really tough course in SS, because you could focus most of your energy on it with fewer diversions, 2) economics (early graduation), and 3) SS courses were sometimes a little easier.
Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!
Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
9F 9F 9F
https://ecogreen.greentechaffiliate.com
Awww, c'mon OZZIE, you know I graduated from Duke in 19xx . The $2500 or so for annual tuition then was still quite a chunk of change, though somewhat of a bargain now compared to $34,xxx for annual tuition for the current students. I talked to one our friends recently who graduated from NCSU that year and his tuition was $600 for the year. Yikes.