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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Lavabe View Post
    Point of clarification: I doubt that summer courses are easier than during the rest of the year. Course selection is usually limited, and that may cut down on the kinds of courses that get taught. You're not going to find as many of the upper level courses, given their smaller enrollment. In that respect, sure, it's easier to take an intro than an advanced class.

    On the other hand, courses like a Calculus series, Orgo series, basic intro and core classes in other departments stay pretty close to form throughout the year (at least where I am, they are). My premed advisees (I'm in a DIII school) often remark about taking intense daily orgo in the summer, vs. the normal orgo during the school year. Upper level and core courses offered in the summer maintain their rigor. It seems that that summer classes can be much more intense than during the normal school year.

    Many of my advisees take summer courses to get done with general education requirements, or to move on with department requirements so that they can take advantage of study abroad options, or so they can graduate early (or on time). It's not as though summer students are any less intense.

    Just what percentage of Duke students take classes during the summer at some point in their academic career?

    Otherwise, I agree completely with the comments about the wonderment about JWill. I've never met him, but in all respects, he seems like an incredibly gifted individual.

    Yeah, and that one time he had in Maryland makes me smile.

    Cheers,
    Lavabe
    most undergrads don't take summer classes. i wasn't saying that a class that is offered both in the summer and during the normal school year will be different depending on when you take it. however, the quality of the students in the summer class is going to be much lower. how many students graduating phi beta kappa are taking summer classes? it therefore is a lot easier to get better grades in summer classes.

  2. #22

    math/science starters

    Quote Originally Posted by merry View Post
    Trajan was a math major I think. Not sure if there've been any other science/math type majors among the starters on the men's BB team since then, but there have been for the women.
    Horvath doubled in Physics and English, I believe, but I'm not sure he was ever a regular starter.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Quote Originally Posted by dukie8 View Post
    most undergrads don't take summer classes. i wasn't saying that a class that is offered both in the summer and during the normal school year will be different depending on when you take it. however, the quality of the students in the summer class is going to be much lower. how many students graduating phi beta kappa are taking summer classes? it therefore is a lot easier to get better grades in summer classes.
    I understand your points, but I'm afraid I disagree that the quality of the student is going to be lower. Again, I see many students taking summer classes to advance more quickly, to cope with university/department requirements/offerings, to manage their schedules while coping with pre-professional demands (pre-med, pre-vet, etc...), and to get courses in to qualify for special study abroad/fellowship programs. And frankly, 6 of the last 7 Phi Beta Kappa students I have advised all took summer courses.

    Cheers,
    Lavabe

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Lavabe View Post
    I understand your points, but I'm afraid I disagree that the quality of the student is going to be lower. Again, I see many students taking summer classes to advance more quickly, to cope with university/department requirements/offerings, to manage their schedules while coping with pre-professional demands (pre-med, pre-vet, etc...), and to get courses in to qualify for special study abroad/fellowship programs. And frankly, 6 of the last 7 Phi Beta Kappa students I have advised all took summer courses.

    Cheers,
    Lavabe
    i thought you live in georgia? are you referring to duke PBK students because duke students generally hightail it out of durham in the summer? i don't recall any regular students taking summer classes when i was there. i know that some do but the overall quality of students in the summer classes was a big step down. think about it, if you have a class of 20 students and half of them are football and basketball players, how hard is it to get a good grade in it?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by dukie8 View Post
    i thought you live in georgia? are you referring to duke PBK students because duke students generally hightail it out of durham in the summer? i don't recall any regular students taking summer classes when i was there. i know that some do but the overall quality of students in the summer classes was a big step down. think about it, if you have a class of 20 students and half of them are football and basketball players, how hard is it to get a good grade in it?
    That is rather disgustingly elitist.

  6. #26

    dukie 8 is breakin it on down - excell academically

    Quote Originally Posted by dukie8 View Post
    i wasn't referring to duke -- duke is at the apex of academics as applied to athletics. i was more expressing my disgust that excellence in academics for athletes generally is measured by graduation rates, which, to me, isn't exactly impressive. the schools that don't graduate nearly every athlete are disgraceful.

    with respect to be being blown away by duke basketball players passing classes and being on the team, you shouldn't be. what they accomplish is what most other athletes at duke accomplish in anonymity. moreover, many athletes put in a lot more time than the basketball players and do it year round (i don't consider pick-up games in card gym in april and may year round). swimmers put in the most hours week in and week out and runners train and compete year round. moreover, most of the other sports don't have the luxuries that the basketball players have -- they are traveling in vans for many hours (not chartered flights) and don't take summer classes.

    what jwill did is impressive vis-a-vis what your typical d1 basketball player does (or doesn't) do in the classroom but it wasn't like he was taking 5 or 6 classes a semester to graduate in 3 years. he had 3 full summers to pile up classes, which usually are much easier than classes held when the rest of the school is in session and which more than equals an entire academic year. i'm not knocking him, because it is such a rare accomplishment, but in the big picture, it really shouldn't be that big of a deal and should happen much more frequently.
    and pretty much spot on in the above.

    football playes and basketball players have it a bit easier than other athletes with (in the past anyway) full access to tutors, summer school, throw training table in there, and whatever.

    but out football players and basketball players work more at school (and have to do so) than many other schools with which we compete.

    Here is where a Paul Johnson comes in I think - we go after smarter kids. Johnson sits in the living room with the kid and parents and says: "I assure you mr. and mrs. smith that your son will work like heck at Duke. He is going to practice harder, get stronger, put in more time in the library than you can imagine. And, if he slips up, and skips class, I will boot him off the team. As long as I am convinced he is doing everything in his power to develop as a football player he will keep his scholarship. And when he graduates, he will have good grades and interview for good jobs or go to graduate school, and Duke will help a bit in the admissions process there. I am not interested in just having someone graduate. I want them to excell."

    This is basically Johnson's shtik right now, but throw in a military service commitment.

    What a difference from when Roof met with Lewis and asked "How are the ladies treating you?"

    Johnson's kids will have immense social opportunities as alpha males making it happen, getting prepared to excell in life after football. Paul knows this already from his Naval Academy kids. No need to ask.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    That is rather disgustingly elitist.
    and painfully true. please remove your head from the sand if you have a problem with it.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    I remember Summer I having an enrollment of about 500 when I was there taking intensive Greek 1-2. That's around 8% of the total Ugrad enrollment. And that doesn't include study-abroad programs that occur in the summer sessions.

    I knew several people, non athletes, who finished in three years so as to save their parents exorbitant tuition in that 4th year.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Two miles south of Cameron
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    I remember Summer I having an enrollment of about 500 when I was there taking intensive Greek 1-2. That's around 8% of the total Ugrad enrollment. And that doesn't include study-abroad programs that occur in the summer sessions.

    I knew several people, non athletes, who finished in three years so as to save their parents exorbitant tuition in that 4th year.
    I finished in three and a half for that reason.

    I did one summer at Beaufort, which I guess isn't exactly the same thing as the kind of summer school we're talking about here.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Watching carolina Go To HELL!

    Nick Horvath

    Quote Originally Posted by devil_in_NL View Post
    Horvath doubled in Physics and English, I believe, but I'm not sure he was ever a regular starter.
    Nick was irregular in more ways than one

    Just kidding. Nick was a very serious student. I talked with him briefly during his injury red shirt year and he said he planned to stay for 5 years and take some graduate level courses. He was, and is, a credit to Duke University.
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    http://www.EGLEW.com


  11. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Quote Originally Posted by dukie8 View Post
    i thought you live in georgia? are you referring to duke PBK students because duke students generally hightail it out of durham in the summer? i don't recall any regular students taking summer classes when i was there. i know that some do but the overall quality of students in the summer classes was a big step down. think about it, if you have a class of 20 students and half of them are football and basketball players, how hard is it to get a good grade in it?
    I was talking about where I am. I could swear that I saw an article in Chronicle of Higher Ed mentioning a national trend similar to what throaty just mentioned ... a lot of students today are taking summer school to get ahead in the process, and to cut down cost.

    Cheers,
    Lavabe

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh

    summer school

    I think it is a number of factors. Cost, no summer job or only part-time work available, smaller classes, graduate early, complete a double major(or more!), a shade easier(?). I graduated in 3 1/2 years with a couple summer sessions(1 course each session), and 5 courses for each of 2 semesters and saved about $1250 in tuition costs by finishing 1 semester early. Plus, I was able to work those extra 4-5 months and make a few Franklins. Guess my year of graduation . OZZIE is not allowed to have a guess(hint). OTOH, my son studied abroad for 2 summer sessions at a cost of $5K or $6K total for the 8 weeks, had some AP credits, took several 1/4 or 1/2 credit courses during his stay and had an extra P/F course or two and graduated in 4 years, costing us the extra 5-6K instead of saving us about 15K in tuition . Lots of variables. Good discussion here.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Inman, SC & Melbourne Beach, FL
    When I started teaching in 1984 (not at Duke), there were some, but not a lot of students, who wanted to go to summer school. Therefore the teaching slots were rationed. When I retired in 2001, there were plenty of summer teaching jobs, and adjuncts were even used. I never actually taught in the summer, but according to the students I advised, there were three reasons: 1) It was good to take a really tough course in SS, because you could focus most of your energy on it with fewer diversions, 2) economics (early graduation), and 3) SS courses were sometimes a little easier.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Watching carolina Go To HELL!
    Quote Originally Posted by devildeac View Post
    I graduated in 3 1/2 years with a couple summer sessions(1 course each session), and 5 courses for each of 2 semesters and saved about $1250 in tuition costs by finishing 1 semester early.
    I didn't know you graduated from Appalachian State in 2002! That ($1,250.) is what it cost there for a semester, including tuition, book rental and student activity fees in the 2001-2002 school year.
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    http://www.EGLEW.com


  15. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh

    graduating

    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    I didn't know you graduated from Appalachian State in 2002! That ($1,250.) is what it cost there for a semester, including tuition, book rental and student activity fees in the 2001-2002 school year.
    Awww, c'mon OZZIE, you know I graduated from Duke in 19xx . The $2500 or so for annual tuition then was still quite a chunk of change, though somewhat of a bargain now compared to $34,xxx for annual tuition for the current students. I talked to one our friends recently who graduated from NCSU that year and his tuition was $600 for the year. Yikes.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by devildeac View Post
    Awww, c'mon OZZIE, you know I graduated from Duke in 19xx . The $2500 or so for annual tuition then was still quite a chunk of change, though somewhat of a bargain now compared to $34,xxx for annual tuition for the current students. I talked to one our friends recently who graduated from NCSU that year and his tuition was $600 for the year. Yikes.
    When I went to Duke law the tuition was $775 per semester.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh

    tuition

    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    When I went to Duke law the tuition was $775 per semester.
    Might that have something to do with the '66' part of your name

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