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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Coach K is One Of The Best Coaches

    I emphasize ONE of the best, because at one time I considered him to be THE best coach.

    Nobody can blame him for Livingston deciding not to come or for Deng being a one and out player, or for Brandon Wright choosing UNC , or for John Brockman choosing to stay home and play.. However, he has to take some of the blame for the team not playing defense for several games now, and the reason rightly stated in other posts as to why Duke has lost.

    He has to take some of the blame for the non-developement of Lance Thomas, Brian Zoubek and Marty Pocius.

    I know that it might be sacreligeous to criticize Coach K for all that he has accomplished, but sometimes it is OK to state the truth, as long as it is not mean-spirited and I don't think that this post is.

  2. #2
    oh, i think he is still the best. one difficult year doesn't change that. he is not infallible and i never thought he was. this is a very young team with some gaps in the talent profile. they need to mature. they will.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Duke Fan View Post
    He has to take some of the blame for the non-developement of Lance Thomas, Brian Zoubek...
    Don't you think that maybe, just maybe, you should wait more than a year to make judgments on a player's development? These two guys are freshmen, for crying out loud. Not all players develop at the same rate. Some of the expectations here are so warped that I feel like vomiting in my mouth, swallowing it, then puking it back up again.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    MKE
    maybe we missed out on jon brockman, but at least we got john brockhardt.

    http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.db...&ATCLID=224174

    way to go john.

  5. #5
    He DID take the blame for the lack of defense over the last several games.

    Agreed that Thomas and Zoubek get a bit more than one year before we can say they haven't developed.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham
    Wow Jumbo, that was a bit harsh.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York City
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Duke Fan View Post
    I emphasize ONE of the best, because at one time I considered him to be THE best coach.

    Nobody can blame him for Livingston deciding not to come or for Deng being a one and out player, or for Brandon Wright choosing UNC , or for John Brockman choosing to stay home and play.. However, he has to take some of the blame for the team not playing defense for several games now, and the reason rightly stated in other posts as to why Duke has lost.

    He has to take some of the blame for the non-developement of Lance Thomas, Brian Zoubek and Marty Pocius.

    I know that it might be sacreligeous to criticize Coach K for all that he has accomplished, but sometimes it is OK to state the truth, as long as it is not mean-spirited and I don't think that this post is.
    I am posing what I think is an interesting question -- if we get Brandan Wright instead of UNC, how much are the respective teams' fortunes reversed. I ask because most people thought we were the favorite to get him last year.

    I think with Brandan Wright, Duke is a top 5 team this year (geez, we were for a while there - seems like a long time ago). I think without Brandan Wright UNC might have been looking at a 8-8, 9-7 or even 7-9 season.

  8. #8

    Marty?

    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Duke Fan View Post
    I emphasize ONE of the best, because at one time I considered him to be THE best coach.

    Nobody can blame him for Livingston deciding not to come or for Deng being a one and out player, or for Brandon Wright choosing UNC , or for John Brockman choosing to stay home and play.. However, he has to take some of the blame for the team not playing defense for several games now, and the reason rightly stated in other posts as to why Duke has lost.

    He has to take some of the blame for the non-developement of Lance Thomas, Brian Zoubek and Marty Pocius.

    I know that it might be sacreligeous to criticize Coach K for all that he has accomplished, but sometimes it is OK to state the truth, as long as it is not mean-spirited and I don't think that this post is.
    If anything- yesterday's game showed that SOPHOMORE Marty Pocius is a better player than FRESHMAN Marty Pocius. And there have been several games where his D was pretty good. I expect JUNIOR Marty Pocius to be better. Give K at least another year to develop two freshman.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC
    I totally agree with Jumbo; he is right on this one (though we probably could have done without the vomiting in his mouth sequence.

    If you look at any of our very good to great players, the development comes across all four years, never just in one. This is especially true of big men. There have been other Dukies who weren't "developed": Greg Newton comes particularly to my mind. Was that K's fault?

    Is Coach K infallible? Absolutely NOT (and I think he would be the first person to agree with that). Is he a great coach? Take a look at his record. And look at that record with the players he's had. We've had a few that have been truly great; Johnny D, Christian, Grant Elton come to mind. But others who stepped up big weren't great players. We don't win the championship (I think in 92) without Marty Clark stroking free throws in the game against Indiana. We don't beat Vegas without Billy McCaffery's shooting. We don't beat UNC in 1998 in Cameron when we were down 19 at the half without playing magnificent D from that point on.

    This team doesn't appear to have coalesced. Once in a great while, you'll see someone in college hoops crash into a screen that he didn't see. That has happened a couple of times because our guys are not communicating on defense. Coach K cannot run out on the court and do that for them.

    Josh made a thundering dunk near the end of the game, but that wasn't enough to make up for the 2 assist, 5 turnover performance in which he didn't block a single shot despite the many points in the paint.

    The coaches can teach and can excite, but they can't play the game. And until the Devils learn that and do play defense as they did against Gonzaga, for example, we're done winning.
    DukeDevilDeb

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Carolina Beach NC
    That sounds really sick!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Coach K

    I never said that Coach K was not a great coach...He is !!!

    But why can't he be criticized somewhat. When Duke is very successful he gets lauded...when they are not as successful as everyone would like, why is it so terrible to place some blame.

    If I remember last year, UNC was suppose to very young, but I challenge anyone to say that Roy did not do an outstanding job with his team.

  12. #12

    I think Jumbo's Right (even if a bit scary in how he worded it)

    It's too early to judge this team. Another year of maturity, strength and experience should make a very big difference.

    Think of how many games we lost this year that we were in a position to win. We had a shot at almost every game we lost.

    Marquette: we were tied with 7 minutes to play but lost by 10.
    Va. Tech: tied with 5 minutes to go, lost in overtime
    Ga. Tech: down only 2 with 5 to play, lost by 11.
    UVA: up by 8 with 3 to play, lost in overtime.
    FSU: down 2 or 3 in last 5 minutes, lost by 1.
    UNC: tied with 5 minutes left, lost by 6.
    Md.: scratch back from huge deficit to 6 down before losing.
    Md. (no. 2): down by 2 with 5 minutes to play, lost by 8.
    UNC: all but tied mid-way through the second half, lost by 14.
    NCSU: up by 1 with 2 minutes to play, lost in overtime.

    With a little more experience we probably would win at least half of those games and this season (and I hope next season) would look very much different.

    I hope it's not too Pollyanna-ish to say I think we're on the verge of being a really good team. I don't know if we'll reach that level in the NCAAs, but I'm confident we will next year.

    Hope Jumbo's feeling better by then!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Duke Fan View Post
    I never said that Coach K was not a great coach...He is !!!

    But why can't he be criticized somewhat. When Duke is very successful he gets lauded...when they are not as successful as everyone would like, why is it so terrible to place some blame.

    If I remember last year, UNC was suppose to very young, but I challenge anyone to say that Roy did not do an outstanding job with his team.
    He did, but hell, I think this year's Duke team would've gone 12-4 against last year's ACC as well.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Duke Fan View Post
    I never said that Coach K was not a great coach...He is !!!

    But why can't he be criticized somewhat. When Duke is very successful he gets lauded...when they are not as successful as everyone would like, why is it so terrible to place some blame.

    If I remember last year, UNC was suppose to very young, but I challenge anyone to say that Roy did not do an outstanding job with his team.
    He can be critcized. No one is saying otherwise. The criticism just has to make sense.

  15. #15
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    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeDevilDeb View Post
    (though we probably could have done without the vomiting in his mouth sequence.
    Sorry, I've been kind of nauseous since lunch.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    We Just Differ

    You think that Coach K deserves no criticism this year. I think otherwise. I think that he has to take some blame for the team not playing good solid defense over the last several games. You even pointed out, and rightly so, that the team lost recently because they did not play defense. You are "preaching to the choir", on that score . I understand that sometimes a coach gets too much credit when his team does well and probably takes too much blame when his team does not. Coach K got tremendous credit when Duke was successful, ( maybe too much), so maybe now he has to take some criticism when the team is not so successful. We just have a difference of opinion. At least we both agree that he is a great coach.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Duke Fan View Post
    You think that Coach K deserves no criticism this year. I think otherwise. I think that he has to take some blame for the team not playing good solid defense over the last several games.
    Jumbo can certainly defend himself here, but, having read his comments in this and other threads, he certainly does not believe "that Coach K deserves no criticism." In fact both he and Coach K agree with the criticism of the defense.

    His dispute with you is that you "blame" Coach K for the lack of development of Thomas, Zoubek, and Pocius. I agree with Jumbo on that point, that its too soon to place "blame" on anyone for the so-called lack of development on 2 freshman and a sophomore. I think that's a ridiculous charge even some of our best players who became #1 picks in the NBA (Battier, Abdelnaby,

    I think there is a legitimate debate to be had on the type of coaching job Coach K has done this year. I think Coack K had a harder time "getting" this team than he has had in a long time. I also think that dismissing the idea that this is very much a transition year in terms of recruiting philosophy.

    It strikes me that black and white arguments about blame and who is above criticism are misplaced and counter productive.

    One last point, since 1997, the following teams other than Duke have won National Titles: Arizona, Kentucky, UConn, Michigan State, Maryland, Syracuse, UNC, and Florida. Notice anything? With the exception of the last two (and maybe UMD) all have legendary coaches and "down" years. So, who are they gonna blame?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    No, you're not reading.

    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Duke Fan View Post
    You think that Coach K deserves no criticism this year. I think otherwise.
    That's blatantly false. I have never said Coach K deserves no criticism. I said it's ridiculous to criticize anyone for some perceived lack of development by Thomas and Zoubek, when some players need more than one season to develop.

    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Duke Fan View Post
    I think that he has to take some blame for the team not playing good solid defense over the last several games.
    I agree. So does he. What are we arguing about?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Duke Fan View Post
    You think that Coach K deserves no criticism this year. I think otherwise. I think that he has to take some blame for the team not playing good solid defense over the last several games. You even pointed out, and rightly so, that the team lost recently because they did not play defense. You are "preaching to the choir", on that score . I understand that sometimes a coach gets too much credit when his team does well and probably takes too much blame when his team does not. Coach K got tremendous credit when Duke was successful, ( maybe too much), so maybe now he has to take some criticism when the team is not so successful. We just have a difference of opinion. At least we both agree that he is a great coach.
    the whole olympic team commitment issue has been raised here and is a fair question. i just don't know whether coaching the olympic team and not being around for much of the summer matters. maybe someone who knows more about what a college coach does over the summer could comment. do players usually hang around campus and train over the summer? if they do, does it matter if the coach is around? fwiw, 2 summers ago melch played pick-up all summer long at my gym in nyc so i'm not sure having k in durham would have mattered that much for him.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lexington, NC
    I still think Coach K is the best out there. Granted, he does deserve some of the blame for the lack of defense. As for developing the players, I think a year of seasoning will help us judge Thomas and Zoubek better.

    My question is, do you guys think Coach K has lost a little touch on recruiting? I know we've lost out on some big names in the past, Wright being the most recent example. I heard Wright chose UNC due to their up-tempo style. Granted we have Singler coming in, who's ranked 3rd best in the nation by some sites.

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