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  1. #41

    Duke hating

    The reaction that people have to someone who went or goes to Duke, and the image that people have built up about the university are not a joke. These views are often directly influenced by the negative feelings that have been drummed up about the basketball program, and it doesn't matter how completely irrational that is because it is reality. Being sensitive about that is not the reason why people hate Duke, just as overcritical microanalysis of depth in a key win on a Duke message board is not the reason why people hate Duke (as someone suggested after the Marquette win). If these were the reasons, it would be a lot less of a problem and certainly not confined to Duke. The Duke hating crap has gotten pretty out of control and it's not sensationalizing it to be p*ssed off about it. Bringing the lax thing into it in order to find some new reason why Coack K supposedly has no soul is a decent example of how being irrational about Duke's basketball program has spilled over into being irrational about Duke in real life -way beyond displeasure about fan heckling, negative effects on recruiting, or unfair officiating backlashes.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Stealth View Post
    The reaction that people have to someone who went or goes to Duke, and the image that people have built up about the university are not a joke. These views are often directly influenced by the negative feelings that have been drummed up about the basketball program, and it doesn't matter how completely irrational that is because it is reality. Being sensitive about that is not the reason why people hate Duke, just as overcritical microanalysis of depth in a key win on a Duke message board is not the reason why people hate Duke (as someone suggested after the Marquette win). If these were the reasons, it would be a lot less of a problem and certainly not confined to Duke. The Duke hating crap has gotten pretty out of control and it's not sensationalizing it to be p*ssed off about it. Bringing the lax thing into it in order to find some new reason why Coack K supposedly has no soul is a decent example of how being irrational about Duke's basketball program has spilled over into being irrational about Duke in real life -way beyond displeasure about fan heckling, negative effects on recruiting, or unfair officiating backlashes.
    Duke is the most successful basketball program in college basketball. That, way above everything else, is why the hating happens. If you'd like to see the hating stop, the only cure will be a lot of losses for Duke.

    I'd just as soon see the hating.

  3. #43
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post

    --Jason "oh, and the notion that there is an anti-Duke conspiracy at ESPN is laughable to those of us in the journalism biz" Evans
    Quote Originally Posted by tux View Post
    Jason,

    Re: that signature:

    Can you elaborate on how being in the "journalism biz" especially helps one root out media bias? (It just comes across as a fairly pompous line; I'm interested to see if you can write the next sentence to it...)
    How soon we forget. Anybody remember the story of media members celebration in a press room after the Duke loss to VCU last year? Nah, no bias there.

  4. #44
    Join Date
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    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    The success is a large part of it, but our collective high-and-mighty routine is also a contributor.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    The success is a large part of it, but our collective high-and-mighty routine is also a contributor.
    While I agree, I'd also note that the high-and-mighty routine is going to inevitably develop with the level of success we've had. It's human nature. (See "Dame, Notre" and "UCLA".)

  6. #46

    I don't think so

    You said all we have to do is start losing and people would stop talking, well we had our fair share of it last year and the end result is that the media talks more negatively than ever before. There are people out there who do not like us and want us to disappear. All of the evidence is there, this is no conspiracy, the sad thing is that no one from Duke seems to stand up about it. It is very frustrating.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by DBFAN View Post
    You said all we have to do is start losing and people would stop talking, well we had our fair share of it last year and the end result is that the media talks more negatively than ever before. There are people out there who do not like us and want us to disappear. All of the evidence is there, this is no conspiracy, the sad thing is that no one from Duke seems to stand up about it. It is very frustrating.
    A season in which a team goes 22-11 would only be considered a "fair share" of losing in the world of the spoiled Duke fan.

    Are there people that want to see Duke basketball disappear? Sure. Heck, there are thousands of them 8 miles down the road. But guess what? Jason Evans notwithstanding, there are lots of people that took great joy in seeing UNC completely meltdown six years ago. Why did we all take such joy? Mostly because the UNC program has enjoyed a great deal of success.

    It isn't a conspiracy for lots of people to want to see the downfall of a powerful sports program. It is just human nature.

  8. #48
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    New York City
    Quote Originally Posted by gvtucker View Post
    Duke is the most successful basketball program in college basketball. That, way above everything else, is why the hating happens. If you'd like to see the hating stop, the only cure will be a lot of losses for Duke.

    I'd just as soon see the hating.
    I don't think so. I don't remember Kentucky getting this kind of treatment in the mid 1990s when it was winning two out of three titles and losing in the title game the third year. And I don't recall UNC ever getting this treatment. And although I am not old enough to remember, I don't think UCLA had any of these issues. It's the media - and the media - especially ESPN - has changed a lot in the last 10 years (since Kentucky's run), which just happens to coincide with the development of the internet.

  9. #49
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    Northern VA

    "Human Nature" - yes, but unprofessional/dishonest coming so obviously from media

    Most mainstream folks assume/expect integrity from the media -- news media and also sports media. Most casual observers, who aren't huge b-ball fans like those of us posting here aren't always aware how the "news" is being colored. That is why integrity in the media is so very important -- people depend on and TRUST the media.

    So there are impacts if a major or dominant player like ESPN reports, often as "fact," that: (1) Duke gets all of the calls (even as part of their coverage - recall Stew Scott story a couple years ago after the FSU game) even when Duke is getting charged with 2x the fouls called on an opponent and fouling out their entire starting lineup; or that (2) Duke is a rich-kids elitist school with terrible relations with a mostly poor, black city (almost those exact words, again from any number of ESPN LAX stories where they were among the leaders in the anti-Duke stampede over a year ago); (3) ESPN diagramming in-detail (thank you again Mr. Scott) how G. Henderson "MUST" have run all the way across the court with the intent to harm Tyler Hansborough's nose (spot shadow and all); (4) The more recent spate of anti-Duke anti-K rif's posted in ESPN Magaazine.; etc, etc.

    Jason - I truly like your generally well-informed and reasoned "let's all put the toches down..." tone on this board - you clearly know your stuff - but I simply don't buy it. The anti-Duke bias (no, not conpiracy) at ESPN, through sheer volume and virility, couldn't be more obvious. I tend not to believe in conspiracy junk, as I think most professionals desperately like to think of themselves first and foremost as just that - professional. But I wonder if there isn't some sort of "groupthink" going on over there, given a critical mass of UCONN and UNC-CH alums/fans, that serves to "shape" the News department's view of the world.

    I live in the DC area now. Many MD and UVA and VPI friends used to grumble - usually after a loss to Duke - about Duke getting so many close calls, etc. It was generally a few grumbles and then gone (maybe MORE than just a few if in a large crowd of Terp fans, etc). But nowadays, I so often hear it much more persistently from these same people, who explain/justify the change by saying "even the Post..." or "even ESPN was talking about it..." I also hear this MUCH more from the casual fans who never cared about Duke one way or the other before...

    And I agree - somebody at Duke HAS to speak up about it. The same as you confront racial bigotry -- it cannot stand the light of day (or scrutiny).

    Just my thoughts. Go Duke!

    Regards,

    -BDBD

  10. #50
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    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by -bdbd View Post
    The same as you confront racial bigotry -- it cannot stand the light of day (or scrutiny).
    Please tell me you're not equating "Duke hating" with racism.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by mr. synellinden View Post
    I don't think so. I don't remember Kentucky getting this kind of treatment in the mid 1990s when it was winning two out of three titles and losing in the title game the third year. And I don't recall UNC ever getting this treatment. And although I am not old enough to remember, I don't think UCLA had any of these issues. It's the media - and the media - especially ESPN - has changed a lot in the last 10 years (since Kentucky's run), which just happens to coincide with the development of the internet.
    UCLA was subject to widespread villification by other fans. UNC never dominated nationally the way Duke has and was never so widely disliked. That said, the difference to day is the internet and 24 hour cycles. Familiarity breeds contempt.

  12. #52
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    Northern VA

    Unprofessionalism and Media Bias

    Feldspar -
    Re Duke-hating and racism. Of course not. (I'm sorry if I implied otherwise.) I was simply saying that neither can stand close (or even not-so-close) scrutiny. So this unprofessional, agenda-based approach by certain media members needs to be confronted and pointed out for what it is. What it is is unprofessional..... or worse.

    I would actually like to hear opinions from those on this board working in/with media. Is it past the realm of plausibility that a media outlet could pander to a certain group, such as Duke-bashers, in the interest of ratings and interest? Does it never happen elsewhere?

    -BDBD

    P.S. I noted, belatedly, a typo in my earlier note. I intended to say, "I wonder if there isn't some sort of "groupthink" going on over there (at ESPN), given a critical mass of UCONN and UNC-CH alums/fans, that serves to "shape" the News department's view of their world."

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    UNC never dominated nationally the way Duke has
    I dispute that. They were really dominant from late UCLA empire to 1984.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    One good thing about the Pessah article was the first section, about Prosser's funeral.

    Think about what a survivor K must feel like. Valvano's dead. Prosser's dead. Cremins is in the minor leagues again. Other age contemporaries like Odom have left the conference.

    Coach K is the Watcher.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  15. #55

    Link

    What's a guy have to do around here to get a link?

  16. #56
    Join Date
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    Washington, D.C.

    More Evidence of the ESPN Bias

    Kyle Singler named by ESPN as national player of the week:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/notebo.../weeklywatch03

    Sure, you're thinking this is pro-Duke, what is Chambers complaining about?

    See, it's really a thinly-veiled attempt to influence Kyle to go pro next Spring!

    Matt

    P.S. As Pynchon observed, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

  17. #57

    If it's true hatred, does it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by feldspar View Post
    Please tell me you're not equating "Duke hating" with racism.
    My only thought here is that if (a big if) "Duke haters" truly hate those who attend(ed) Duke, root for Duke, like Duke, etc. then there really isn't much difference. The hatred is just as baseless. There probably aren't many that fit that description but I would wager that there are some.

  18. #58
    And I thought I was out of a year plus preoccupation with the nightmare of the lacrosse case and could return to my first love of Blue Devil basketball!

    But here is Pessah of ESPN attacking Coach K on the lacrosse case because "by staying silent he lost some credibility”? Give me a break! ESPN broadcasted the lies that underlay the Lacrosse Hoax. In his 4/11/2006 piece in ESPN The Magazine, Eric Adelson reported an anonymous source who was “present at the hospital” as indicating that Mangum had bruising on her neck (supporting her story she was strangled), bruises on her face (supporting her story she was beaten) and pelvic injuries (supporting her rape and sodomy stories).

    All of these stories have been shown to be lies yet Adelson has never acknowledged he was suckered and never revealed his so-called source. (I’m excluding the possibility that he just made it up!) Nor has ESPN ever issued an apology for their role in thus propagating the Lacrosse Hoax.

    Since Pessah is ill-equipped and in the wrong company to write about the lacrosse case, might I suggest something that might be more suitable to his background as a Maryland graduate and basketball writer? Why doesn’t he use his inside knowledge to examine the reasons for and implications of the zero graduation rate for D1 basketball players entering his alma mater in the 1997-2000 period?

  19. #59
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    Indiana
    Quote Originally Posted by diesel View Post
    But here is Pessah of ESPN attacking Coach K on the lacrosse case because "by staying silent he lost some credibility”? Give me a break!
    From Pessah's article: “I’ve never been a fan of nondecisions,” says Tom Butters, the former Duke athletic director, who hired Krzyzewski, then a little-known coach at Army, in 1980. “If you can’t support these boys, who can you support? There are times when you have to put your [rear end] on the line....“Did I anticipate Mike would step forward?” {Butters] says. “Yes, because he has stepped forward so many times on so many issues, and because of the gravity of the situation. I am in no way critical of the way he responded, but I was surprised. He is so powerful, and he is not one to be shy about his views. I would have thought he would anguish in his silence.”
    Since Pessah is ill-equipped and in the wrong company to write about the lacrosse case....
    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2491696
    http://insider.espn.go.com/ncaa/insi...3fid%3d2563683

  20. #60
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by feldspar View Post
    Yeah. But I don't think it would have been as funny.
    Whereas I think it would have been hilarious! (Even more hilarious if they'd done it to Stuart Scott.)
    Last edited by Bostondevil; 11-26-2007 at 09:59 PM.

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