Bonds Indicted

[Channing]

On perjury and obstructing justice. When the Vick case was in full swing there were stats that the feds win something like 95% of their cases. Not to good for Barry. Apparently the punishment for this type of offense is "years not months" (as per Roger Cossack)

[billybreen]

You beat me to it.

[DevilAlumna]

Links

Reminder, this is only an indictment.

<sniff>Why do I smell ham sandwiches?</sniff>

[wilson]

I gotta say, I'm pretty surprised that this actually happened. I don't like Barry and I rue the day he broke two of baseball's most hallowed records, but I think this is the strongest exhibit yet that his defenders aren't too far from the truth when they decry the whole BALCO/steroids saga as a "witch hunt."

[billybreen]

Links

Reminder, this is only an indictment.

<sniff>Why do I smell ham sandwiches?</sniff>

Google News? Oh DA, I expect something more like this from you

[Channing]

I gotta say, I'm pretty surprised that this actually happened. I don't like Barry and I rue the day he broke two of baseball's most hallowed records, but I think this is the strongest exhibit yet that his defenders aren't too far from the truth when they decry the whole BALCO/steroids saga as a "witch hunt."

I dont know . . . perjuring yourself to the feds is a big deal . . . they dont take that sort of thing lightly.

[wilson]

I dont know . . . perjuring yourself to the feds is a big deal . . . they dont take that sort of thing lightly.

I understand that, and I'm not at all saying they should. But if Barry were just some schmo taking steroids at the local Gold's Gym, would this have come about? I hardly think so.

[EarlJam]

If he were to go to prison, would there be any chance (not saying I want that) that a chunk of his home runs, and hence the record would be taken from him?

Is that even possible?

-EarlJam

[Channing]

I understand that, and I'm not at all saying they should. But if Barry were just some schmo taking steroids at the local Gold's Gym, would this have come about? I hardly think so.

I honestly do believe it would happen to Joe Schmoe. Now, it wouldnt be breaking news on ESPN, but if Joe Schmoe lied to a federal grand jury I honestly beleive they would go after him.

Also, drawing an analogy to my personal area . . . the IRS makes no bones about the fact that they make an effort to make an example out of high profile people that run afoul of the tax laws. I am sure there is some of that sentiment going on here as well.

[wilson]

Also, drawing an analogy to my personal area . . . the IRS makes no bones about the fact that they make an effort to make an example out of high profile people that run afoul of the tax laws. I am sure there is some of that sentiment going on here as well.

Fair enough...also, I must say that I have basically zero expertise in these matters. But I still think that this has been carried much further than it would have been for almost anyone else (even another baseball player) given Barry's popularity.
To reiterate, I'm not exactly shedding a tear for Barry right now, but I also don't think this really represents an even-handed application of justice.
It will be fascinating to see what MLB does with this, especially with the release of the Mitchell Report looming.

[JMorgan99]

Fair enough...also, I must say that I have basically zero expertise in these matters. But I still think that this has been carried much further than it would have been for almost anyone else (even another baseball player) given Barry's popularity.
To reiterate, I'm not exactly shedding a tear for Barry right now, but I also don't think this really represents an even-handed application of justice.
It will be fascinating to see what MLB does with this, especially with the release of the Mitchell Report looming.

The government has relatively limited resources when it comes to combatting steroid use. By going after Bonds, the most high-profile person ever accused of using the drugs, and potentially winning a case against him, they are able to scare many potential steroid users away from ever using the drug as well as getting some people to stop using the drug. To what effect this occurs, I do not know, but I can assure you a much higher number of people are scared if it is on headline news of ESPN (ie - Bonds indicted) than on the back page of the local paper (ie - Joe Schmoe indicted). Does that suck for Barry? Yes. But if he broke the rules, as long as the court doesn't apply a more strict punishment than is prescribed in the law books, then he's fair game. Kinda like Paris Hilton with the DUI. But she had it coming

[DevilAlumna]

Poor Joe Schmoe. He gets so abused. And since I know the guy (really, I do), I can guarantee he's never lied to a federal grand jury. Nor does he juice. But he does play a mean mellophone.

Oh, and BB, news.google.com has a much better homepage experience. We are actually allowed to use other products.

[YmoBeThere]

IIRC, they went hard after Martha Stewart and ultimately nailed her on conspiracy, obstruction, and making false statements. Hardly the insider trading they probably wanted to get her for.

Similarly for Bonds, they can't get him for what they would really like to get him for, but they should be able to get a conviction on what they have brought.

[dkbaseball]

I'm assuming both charges are based on his statement that he didn't use steroids. If so, it's about as blameworthy, from a common sense standpoint, as Bill Clinton saying he didn't have sex, and about as deserving of prison time. I'm with Wilson -- smells like a publicity-seeking witch hunt.

To the point that the feds can get more bang for their buck by making an example of a big fish -- that would violate one of the fundamental precepts of criminal justice. It's supposed to be parceled out even-handedly, whatever the status of the defendant. Having thus sermonized, I probably should point out that I said the same thing about Michael Vick.

[greybeard]

I'm assuming both charges are based on his statement that he didn't use steroids. If so, it's about as blameworthy, from a common sense standpoint, as Bill Clinton saying he didn't have sex, and about as deserving of prison time. I'm with Wilson -- smells like a publicity-seeking witch hunt.

To the point that the feds can get more bang for their buck by making an example of a big fish -- that would violate one of the fundamental precepts of criminal justice. It's supposed to be parceled out even-handedly, whatever the status of the defendant. Having thus sermonized, I probably should point out that I said the same thing about Michael Vick.

Well said. Looking at the Vick model, how come they are no conspiracy charges against the guys who were paying BB the money that they knew he used to buy drugs so he could hit home runs and make them even more money. I see this thing going all the way up to Bud himself. How come the Buck stops with Barry? Is it any less certain that the guys who ran the Giants during Barry's run that he was using enhancers that they were paying for than it was that Vick knew that the money he was giving his buddies were being used on dog fighting?

If this were a real federal prosecution they would get Barry to roll on his bosses, or go after them as the bigger fish in this steroid game. Certainly managers and owners who knew what was going on had far greater culpability as far as creating an atmosphere of not only permissiveness towards steroids use, but outright encouragement, in the game.

Nope this is not a normal get the biggies so the littles will be scared. This is cherry picking headlines in connection with the real profiteers to obfiscate who the real responsible parties are. That would be you Bud, for starters.

[snowdenscold]

But he does play a mean mellophone.

Yeah mellophone! O ye great trumpet on steroids... (oops, did I say steroids?)

[YmoBeThere]

If this were a real federal prosecution they would get Barry to roll on his bosses,

Can't do more if everyone is lying or won't say anything. This was likely the best they could do. Unfortunately, they didn't do this before the season began.

[Channing]

Well said. Looking at the Vick model, how come they are no conspiracy charges against the guys who were paying BB the money that they knew he used to buy drugs so he could hit home runs and make them even more money. I see this thing going all the way up to Bud himself. How come the Buck stops with Barry? Is it any less certain that the guys who ran the Giants during Barry's run that he was using enhancers that they were paying for than it was that Vick knew that the money he was giving his buddies were being used on dog fighting?


If this were a real federal prosecution they would get Barry to roll on his bosses, or go after them as the bigger fish in this steroid game. Certainly managers and owners who knew what was going on had far greater culpability as far as creating an atmosphere of not only permissiveness towards steroids use, but outright encouragement, in the game.

Nope this is not a normal get the biggies so the littles will be scared. This is cherry picking headlines in connection with the real profiteers to obfiscate who the real responsible parties are. That would be you Bud, for starters.

(1) They already got the bigger fish in the steroid game - that would be Victor Conte.

(2) I hope you are not serious about imposing criminal liability on managers and owners. They may be, and imo, certainly are, morally culpable. But you need this little thing known as an action to commit a crime. Now, if the managers were providing the steroids, that a whole different story.

(3) The definition of a criminal conspiracy is: an agreement with another to to break the law at some point in the future. Michael Vick was charged with dogfighting. That was clearly a criminal act and they had evidence that he and his cohorts had made plans to sponsor dog fights in the future. Barry Bonds was charged with perjury and obstruction of justice. I am not sure what the foundation of the obstruction charge is, but it would be very difficult to prove he made an agreement with another person to lie to the feds again in the future. They are not going after him drug usage. The charge I was more surprised to see missing was some sort of tax related charge.

(4) Unless I missed sarcasm in your post, it sounds to me like you are actually incredulous that Bonds has been indicted for this. I can't understand how. Unless the charges are totally baseless (and there is no evidence to support them), its the justice system at work. These are the same charges that would come against your or I if we lied to a federal grand jury

[cspan37421]

Evil is that which one believes of others. It is a sin to believe evil of others, but seldom a mistake. -- Henry Louis Mencken

If he gets convicted, there ought to be a National Schadenfreude Day.

[knights68]

Forget OJ, meet the century's new "Juice Man"!