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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City

    Karl admits that K key in Melo's Improvement!

    Well, not quite. But he admits:

    The evolution of Nuggets forward Carmelo Anthony, from great to greatness, can be attributed to his NBA maturity. But even his coach, George Karl, said Anthony's development with Team USA has been vital.

    "No question - capital letters, underlined," Karl said before Wednesday's Nuggets-Celtics game. "His professional maturity, respect for the game, respect for his teammates, respect for basketball. There's no question he's more aware of how hard it is to be a special player, and the responsibility that comes with being a special player."


    http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_7399686

    Sounds like Karl recognizes that there has been some special coaching going on at team USA.

  2. #2
    Hi,

    I think coaching team USA has improved Coach K. He has reinvented himself, yet again.

    -Jeffrey

  3. #3

    Regrets, I've had a few . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
    Hi,

    I think coaching team USA has improved Coach K. He has reinvented himself, yet again.

    -Jeffrey
    I have an ugly feeling that I'm gonna regret this, but I'll bite . . .

    Elaborate.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by dw0827 View Post
    I have an ugly feeling that I'm gonna regret this, but I'll bite . . .

    Elaborate.
    Well, for one thing, he has basically adopted Mike D'Antoni's offense. Sure, Duke will have its own wrinkles, but he's basing the stuff he's running off that Phoenix system. Push the ball at every opportunity, spread the floor and a lot of pick-and-roll action.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
    Well, for one thing, he has basically adopted Mike D'Antoni's offense. Sure, Duke will have its own wrinkles, but he's basing the stuff he's running off that Phoenix system. Push the ball at every opportunity, spread the floor and a lot of pick-and-roll action.
    That I understand.

    Guess I'm hung up on the word "reinventing" . . .

    To me, what you describe is simply a guy who continues to learn and adapt and evolve . . . I don't see it as a fundamental change in his coaching philosophy (which is what I'd call a "reinvention")

    I just wasn't sure what the original poster meant when he asks "He has reinvented himself, yet again." That's why I asked. Because IMO Coach K has been consistent throughout the years in his basic overall approach to the game and coaching. Getting older and wiser and learning stuff along the way doesn't strike me as "reinventing" oneself . . .

    Now Madonna . . . that's a different story.

    Semantics, I suspect . . . not worth debating.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
    Well, for one thing, he has basically adopted Mike D'Antoni's offense. Sure, Duke will have its own wrinkles, but he's basing the stuff he's running off that Phoenix system. Push the ball at every opportunity, spread the floor and a lot of pick-and-roll action.
    I'm really curious to see how well this works for us. Greg is a great guy to run the pick and roll with b/c of his passing and 3pt shooting but i just wonder how good we are going to be in our first season running a new offense. And its not just the players' 1st season, its the coaches 1st season doing this at the college level, so we'll see...I think if we keep a lot of players around we will run the same offense next year and be even more effective.

  7. #7

    How about Zone?

    In addition to adopting D'Antoni's offense, he also has indicated a desire to have the team be proficient at zone. Zone D is prevalent in international ball. K wanted Boeheim on the staff to prepare the team to score against it as well as use it, even though the US team didn't play zone much that I saw.

    I think going away from Knight's motion and incorporating zone are some pretty huge changes for K, who has been pretty consistent in his offense and his defense over the years. Certainly not static--he has done a great job of incorporating the talents of his individual teams with his system--but if he truly changes both his offense and defense this substantially I don't think calling it a reinvention is out of line. Add to that his change in recruiting philosophy to adjust to NBA defections and I'd say he's gone through his most significant re-org since he shook up the coaching staff upon his return from back surgery.

  8. #8
    The offense won't be remarkably different than what we ran during the Jwill/Battier years. Those teams spread the court, they pushed the ball, they shot threes, and they ran the high-pick like crazy. The defense will be pressure defense, some full-court press, a lot of picking people up at halfcourt. All stuff we've done before. If he mixes in a little bit of zone for like 2 minutes a game, even that is something that K used to do. I think this season is much more about returning to roots than about reinvention.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    From my perspective, it is less pick and roll then pick to free the guard for penetration and kick. Rather than look for the guard to "break his man" down, the pick is used to create space. Even if the big shows to slow the guard down, his defender will have to be recovering which creates penetration options that otherwise would not be there.

    The penetration is not meant to create an immediate shot (in contrast to the normal concept of pick and roll) but rather require defensive adjustments that become ever more vulnerable the more the ball moves and new adjustments for old ones have to be made.

    Nope, I absolutely will not use the word, I get that you all "get it."

    "And yet there are still some people who insist that there is no such thing as progress." KV, The Sirens of Titan

  10. #10

    Zone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeb View Post
    In addition to adopting D'Antoni's offense, he also has indicated a desire to have the team be proficient at zone.
    I'm not going to say you are wrong about K wanting the team to be "proficient" at zone because I honestly don't know. But yes, I would be stunned if the zone became an integral part of our defensive scheme. Sure, play it once in a while for strategic purposes in isolated instances. . . but thats all.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by SilkyJ View Post
    Greg is a great guy to run the pick and roll with b/c of his passing and 3pt shooting but i just wonder how good we are going to be in our first season running a new offense.
    My biggest concern about it, actually, is Greg running the pick-and-roll. He is a good stand-still shooter, but he is not a good shooter off the dribble. His passing has been suspect so far, and his handle is questionable. I'm not sure how well he'll do setting up other guys, which is why I imagine Duke has its own wrinkles to make up for those weaknesses.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
    The penetration is not meant to create an immediate shot (in contrast to the normal concept of pick and roll) but rather require defensive adjustments that become ever more vulnerable the more the ball moves and new adjustments for old ones have to be made.
    Actually, the Suns' offense is built to get a quick shot. Mike D'Antoni's philosophy is that the best shot is usually available within the first seven seconds of the shot clock.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeb View Post
    In addition to adopting D'Antoni's offense, he also has indicated a desire to have the team be proficient at zone. Zone D is prevalent in international ball. K wanted Boeheim on the staff to prepare the team to score against it as well as use it, even though the US team didn't play zone much that I saw.

    I think going away from Knight's motion and incorporating zone are some pretty huge changes for K, who has been pretty consistent in his offense and his defense over the years. Certainly not static--he has done a great job of incorporating the talents of his individual teams with his system--but if he truly changes both his offense and defense this substantially I don't think calling it a reinvention is out of line. Add to that his change in recruiting philosophy to adjust to NBA defections and I'd say he's gone through his most significant re-org since he shook up the coaching staff upon his return from back surgery.
    I do not think K plans to play much -- if any -- zone with this group.

  14. #14

    Not much zone maybe...

    ... but certainly some. From the horse's mouth:

    http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=23730
    “But what about that zone defense that Duke used so extensively against Shaw and for a half-dozen possessions against Barton?

    “We’re going to use it - we want to be good at it,” Krzyzewski said.
    Obviously time will tell if he follows through, but to act today like Duke won't be using any zone is out of sync with K's comments.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeb View Post
    ... but certainly some. From the horse's mouth:



    Obviously time will tell if he follows through, but to act today like Duke won't be using any zone is out of sync with K's comments.
    You're right, time will tell. But it would be quite a departure for Coach K. Despite the quote you cite, I'm still dubious . . . it just seems out of sync with the uptempo offensive system that everyone is talking about since zones, by their nature, are inherently passive (IMO).

    Which is not to say that we might use it for a minute here and a minute there and, hey, for that minute let's play it well. Maye that's what he meant.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    Zones needn't be passive. I remember watching a few Duke-Temple games, and thinking how much alike Chaney's matchup zone and K's switching man-to-man were.

    Now Foster's zones - those were more passive. He changed up 2-3 with 1-2-2 with 1-3-1, and so forth, keeping the other team off balance. G-man was quite an anchor in the middle, and with no 3, it worked quite well. But we certainly ran when we had the ball.

    Deano used a lot of full-court and 3/4 court trapping zones, then frequently dropped back to man.

    -jk

  17. #17

    Agreed

    I definitely think zone's use will be limited. Many times last season people wondered if Zoubek's mobility on D would be less of a factor if we played a zone, and those thoughts were shot down with a host of "Duke doesn't play zone!" comments. Perhaps Zoubek is part of the reason K has added this. I think more likely is that K wants this option to handle big teams when we have a smaller lineup on the floor--let the biggest Duke player anchor the 2-3 zone and not worry so much about wings getting posted up.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    Zones needn't be passive. I remember watching a few Duke-Temple games, and thinking how much alike Chaney's matchup zone and K's switching man-to-man were.

    Now Foster's zones - those were more passive. He changed up 2-3 with 1-2-2 with 1-3-1, and so forth, keeping the other team off balance. G-man was quite an anchor in the middle, and with no 3, it worked quite well. But we certainly ran when we had the ball.

    Deano used a lot of full-court and 3/4 court trapping zones, then frequently dropped back to man.

    -jk
    Ok, I'll concede the full-court and 3/4 court zones . . . I was really thinking about the half-court set . . . and Temple's zone notwithstanding, I still maintain that zones are inherently passive . . .

  19. #19
    Let me put it this way and avoid the "passive" judgment . . . if I want to force and maintain an untempo game, I'm not going to play a zone.

    I gather we very much want to play an uptempo game this year, so I will therefore be very surprised if we play zone any more than we have in the past . . . which is to say rarely, and in very specific strategic circumstances . . .

  20. #20
    Well, lets see what it looks like come February. Probably its not going to be a total transformation, but an incorporation. Three reasons for it, IMO:

    a) The offense had become a little too predictable, especially to conference foes who have seen it so much. This will enable K to mix it up. Remember, a lot of coaches have studied what K does. To continue to win big, he has to stay ahead of them, something he has proven he is proficient at time and again. Same for the defense, although i think the zone will be used sparingly (is that a word?). Over a period of years he will probably use numerous zones (again, selectively - man will always be primary). This year it will be plain vanilla and used as a surprise to facilitate shifts in momentum.

    b) All the guys recruited have watched plenty of NBA games and hope (or expect) to be there some day. They like to incorporate what they see. K will 'discourage' a lot of that, but maybe throwing a bone to that desire in a way that would be a positive fit to his system will play well in the psychology he so well employs. With so many Duke games televised, displaying some Phoenix style offense would be another factor that might be the difference in landing a recruit we want who is otherwise undecided (it is also a whole lot o' fun to play that style, as anyone who has played will tell you).

    c) Third, it plays into what he enjoys most about coaching - the teaching part - he really loves that, and it is a key factor in his desire to continue coaching.
    "What am i doing in a state of consciousness where THIS is real?"

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