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  1. #1

    Semi Ojeleye and Duke

    http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/c...e_with_celtics

    I just read this article in the Boston Herald which chronicled Semi's life: his parents immigrating from Nigeria, Ojeleye growing up in Kansas, his experiences at Duke and SMU as well as his growth which resulted in his current role with the Celtics.

    His parents clearly didn't see eye to eye with Nate James and Coach K on his role while at Duke. This was posted on a UK board where they used it to rail on Coach K's character but it's tough to read between the lines sometimes in journalism. His parents seem to have exaggerated their accounts of meeting with the Duke coaching staff but its tough to say.

    What are the board's thoughts? Was Semi just a victim of the "churn and burn" of the OAD process or did we not properly utilize or evaluate his talent?

    Ojeleye is turning into one of the better wing defenders in the NBA and Stevens is utilizing him as the primary defensive stopper on star players like Giannis and Ben Simmons so I'm very happy for him, even if he was only at Duke for a short while.

  2. #2
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    Well, as far 2014-15 goes, I'm pretty sure no one outside of Semi's parents believe things should have been done differently. It was unfortunate for Semi that a more talented version of himself (Justise Winslow) came to Duke, and pushed him out of the rotation. However, I thought Semi could have been a really important guy on the 2015-16 team. He would have been the 6th or 7th man by my calculations, especially after Amile went down with that foot injury. He certainly could helped that team on the defensive end, where we were an absolute disaster.

    Still, you can't totally blame his parents for wanting to transfer. He was spectacular in his 1 year at SMU, won conference player of the year, and got drafted by one of the best sports franchises in the world. I'm happy for him, and I'm glad he he's living out his dream.

  3. #3
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    The article definitely portrays K and James in an extremely negative way. Hard to know how much happened in the way the parents described versus how much was embellished. I always felt like we tried to use Semi as a post player and he wanted to be a guard. He really blossomed after leaving, but maybe the struggles he faced at Duke were part of what drove him to improve.

  4. #4
    From an SI article written last year:

    "A lack of maturity stalled him; as Ojeleye puts it, he never learned a skill as small as taking the two or three minutes after class to clear his mind for the day’s work. “Not knowing how to bring my best every day, not knowing how to prepare myself mentally, to get myself to a point where you can play at the highest level,” Ojeleye says. “I did not handle that.” He says he grew anxious about what was ahead on a daily basis. He couldn’t find the “peace about everything” that has come naturally with age. And he wouldn’t stick around long enough to find it in Durham, where he amassed 143 minutes and 46 points in barely more than one season.

    “We always felt, and it’s proven to be true, that he’s an outstanding young man,” Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski says. “He came from a real small environment basketball-wise. There was going to be a process of adjustment, and he was making that progress. And obviously he’s made it. We’re happy for him.”

    In his own words he wasn't ready or able to play at the highest level. I would discount everything else as salt or the standard anti-Duke sentiment.

    source: https://www.si.com/college-basketbal...e-smu-mustangs
    Last edited by fraggler; 05-02-2018 at 10:49 AM. Reason: added source

  5. #5
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    That whole scene in coach K's office that mama and papa recount, if true, is kind of weird and creepy sounding. She knelt in front of K after he yelled at her repeatedly? Just sounds weird man.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    Well, as far 2014-15 goes, I'm pretty sure no one outside of Semi's parents believe things should have been done differently. It was unfortunate for Semi that a more talented version of himself (Justise Winslow) came to Duke, and pushed him out of the rotation. However, I thought Semi could have been a really important guy on the 2015-16 team. He would have been the 6th or 7th man by my calculations, especially after Amile went down with that foot injury. He certainly could helped that team on the defensive end, where we were an absolute disaster.

    Still, you can't totally blame his parents for wanting to transfer. He was spectacular in his 1 year at SMU, won conference player of the year, and got drafted by one of the best sports franchises in the world. I'm happy for him, and I'm glad he he's living out his dream.
    Of course that spectacular year came after 2 years of development at Duke and one year developing as a transfer-redshirt at SMU. Based on his own statements, it sounds like maybe he needed all that time. I always liked Semi and was not upset when he transferred (I was disappointed to lose him, but had no problem with him for doing it), very cool to see him doing so well in the NBA, especially alongside Tatum and (sometimes) Kyrie.

  7. #7

    To defend Coach K

    My parents live near Ottawa, KS and I imagine the Frontier League (the high school conference Ottawa is in) is probably less competitive than the high school leagues of most Duke basketball players. Ottawa is a small town and they play teams from other small Kansas towns. Coach K was dead on with the "He came from a real small environment basketball-wise" comment.

    Also, I could see the culture shock of going from Ottawa to Duke as being more pronounced as say coming to Duke from DC, NY, or the Triangle.

    Glad everything has worked out for all concerned and note that Semi himself took the high road. The story itself was a fascinating look into an immigrant's journey.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    The article definitely portrays K and James in an extremely negative way. Hard to know how much happened in the way the parents described versus how much was embellished. I always felt like we tried to use Semi as a post player and he wanted to be a guard. He really blossomed after leaving, but maybe the struggles he faced at Duke were part of what drove him to improve.
    I never thought we tried to use Semi as a post player, considering that nearly all of the shots he took were 3s. His Fr. year he hit like 5 of 9 3s, and in his 1 So. semester he hit like 22%, which caused him to get increasingly less playing time, ie he wasn't doing the one thing well that he was being asked to do or insisted on doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by left_hook_lacey View Post
    That whole scene in coach K's office that mama and papa recount, if true, is kind of weird and creepy sounding. She knelt in front of K after he yelled at her repeatedly? Just sounds weird man.
    Sounds rather fabricated to me. Also, K has always been vocal about not having it when parents try to make playing time decisions, see: Kris Humphries.

    Anyway, I'm glad that Semi made his way to the Celtics and that he's started some playoff games despite not being a huge part of their regular season. His build and athleticism go with his defensive aptitude quite well, so he'll be getting paid a lot of money over time.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    Of course that spectacular year came after 2 years of development at Duke and one year developing as a transfer-redshirt at SMU. Based on his own statements, it sounds like maybe he needed all that time. I always liked Semi and was not upset when he transferred (I was disappointed to lose him, but had no problem with him for doing it), very cool to see him doing so well in the NBA, especially alongside Tatum and (sometimes) Kyrie.
    Well, 1.5 years at Duke and 1.5 years at SMU. He transferred midseason, then redshirted the second half of his first full year at SMU.

    But yeah, like Gbinije before him, some guys just take longer for it to click. And for both, they felt their opportunities were best elsewhere. Can't blame them or fault them. Duke is a tough place to play, and only a few guys get to experience being a star player while at here. Clearly, it worked out well for both guys, as they became eventual stars at other D1 schools and made it to the NBA.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DukieInBrasil View Post
    I never thought we tried to use Semi as a post player, considering that nearly all of the shots he took were 3s. His Fr. year he hit like 5 of 9 3s, and in his 1 So. semester he hit like 22%, which caused him to get increasingly less playing time, ie he wasn't doing the one thing well that he was being asked to do or insisted on doing.



    Sounds rather fabricated to me. Also, K has always been vocal about not having it when parents try to make playing time decisions, see: Kris Humphries.

    Anyway, I'm glad that Semi made his way to the Celtics and that he's started some playoff games despite not being a huge part of their regular season. His build and athleticism go with his defensive aptitude quite well, so he'll be getting paid a lot of money over time.
    That's the part I'm struggling with. It's the story of a deeply religious immigrant family that made all their dreams come true through hard work, faith, and determination. But they made up, or embellished their encounter with Coach K?

    Either their whole story is embellished, which is totally possible, or they didn't embellish any of it, also possible.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by left_hook_lacey View Post
    That's the part I'm struggling with. It's the story of a deeply religious immigrant family that made all their dreams come true through hard work, faith, and determination. But they made up, or embellished their encounter with Coach K?

    Either their whole story is embellished, which is totally possible, or they didn't embellish any of it, also possible.
    Also possible that their interpretation of what happened is different than how someone else might of interpreted it, for some of the reasons you mention at the beginning of your post. Certainly potential for some cultural misunderstandings. In other words, there may be no (intentional) embellishment on the part of the family, but Duke/Coach K might still be able to truthfully dispute the events as described. Just to add a third possibility.

    To me it seems like K possibly got annoyed with the line of discussion (and it was not the first time the discussion was had) and probably responded as such. And that annoyance/frustration may well have been interpreted as rage by the family. But only the folks in the room know for sure.

  12. #12
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    The fact that an article like that appears in a major American newspaper is a horrible look for K. The vision of him jumping out of his chair saying, "Am I a liar?" and Semi's mother dropping to her knees and crying at his feet seems insane...and exactly what the haters already suspect "the true K" is like.

    Like any story, there are 3 sides...one side, the other side and the truth. It is hard to imagine that it went down the way they say, I can't imagine K treating anyone's mother that way...a father, maybe.

    For those interested, this was the Duke Bball response to the reporter, included in the article, “While we are not going to comment on specific conversations between parents and members of our coaching staff, we understand that transfer situations are sometimes emotional. Our entire Duke Basketball staff enjoyed Semi Ojeleye’s year-and-a-half as a member of our program, and since granting him his full release, we have followed his career as he progressed into the professional player our staff envisioned him to be. We wish him nothing but the best.”

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DukieInBrasil View Post
    I never thought we tried to use Semi as a post player, considering that nearly all of the shots he took were 3s. His Fr. year he hit like 5 of 9 3s, and in his 1 So. semester he hit like 22%, which caused him to get increasingly less playing time, ie he wasn't doing the one thing well that he was being asked to do or insisted on doing.

    .
    Actually, that was one of the problems. Ojeleye was strong, quick and could jump out of the proverbial gym.

    But his ball skills were raw and unrefined.

    Duke thought he could best help the team close to the basket, while refining his perimeter skills over time and eventually moving outside.

    He wanted to come in and jack up 3s.

    Note also that in his admittedly small sample size at Duke, Ojeleye had three assists and five turnovers in 143 minutes. One assist every 48 minutes does not scream ACC perimeter player.

    So, there was some friction.

    I suspect he would have been a rotation player at Duke in 2016 and 2017 had he stayed. But he almost certainly would not have gotten the touches and opportunities he got at SMU. He ended up with a degree from a quality institution and a role on one of the NBA's better teams. I wish he had stayed. But it's hard to argue with his decision.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by left_hook_lacey View Post
    That whole scene in coach K's office that mama and papa recount, if true, is kind of weird and creepy sounding. She knelt in front of K after he yelled at her repeatedly? Just sounds weird man.
    That is just very hard to believe. And yes, utterly bizarre.

  15. #15
    Its great that people here, or Duke fans in general, are willing to question Coach K, when appropriate. I would be embarrassed, if, for example, Fans and, most importantly, the University as a whole, was willing to turn a blind eye to the academic fraud that took place at UNC. So I read this article with an open mind, and a realization that people can get angry and respond inappropriately, etc.


    Its very difficult to discern the truth about events you didn't witness. Different people view the same situation differently. With that said, I call BS on this story. Although I would normally be reluctant to challenge the veracity of someone in this situation, this story is so ridiculous and over the top that I am confident in saying this did not happen as it is being portrayed.


    There is no way Nate James called up the family of a player (or former player depending on the timing) just to denigrate their son. It did not happen. He may well have called to say "We have asked Semi to work on his rebounding, his defense. He wants to shoot 3's. He has things to work on. He has only been here 1 year. He has 3 left. Things will get better, but he has to develop". Or something similar. (In fact, I recall Semi saying something similar during the draft process. That when he was at Duke he wasn't mature enough to realize the things he needed to work on, etc.) But I am extremely confident that he did not call to denigrate the kid. Is it possible a hypersensitive parent could misinterpret the call this badly? I guess so. Its also possible they could take offense to legitimate criticism and grossly exaggerate it in order to hurt the party they felt aggrieved by.


    There is no way that Coach K jumped out of his chair and screamed at a woman who was kneeling in the floor before him with tears running down her face. It did not happen. Even if you are willing to accept this ridiculous story, it is clear that Mrs. Ojeleye is a very emotional person if she dropped to her knees, crying and asking for forgiveness. As such, every comment that she made needs to be looked at through the lens of someone very quick to take offense and prone to very emotional responses. Given what little I can gleam from this interview, I have no trouble believing that encounters with the Ojeleye family were very emotional.


    I am sure that there are significant cultural differences that may have caused confusion or heightened emotions here. Mrs. Ojeleye may be an extremely humble person who only wanted to ask a question and was so dismayed that she may have caused offense that she dropped to her knees and begged forgiveness. But I have a very difficult time squaring away that individual with the one who spoke to a reporter so confidently and freely about Coach K's terrible behavior. She trashed him. And not reluctantly.

  16. #16
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    The truth is most likely somewhere in between the parents account and what we expect from Coach K.

    First, Coach K has always expressed the view that everyone gains playing time by the way that they practice. He also has expressed the view that he is helping young men mature. Part of maturing is being told the truth about your skills without the comments being "sugar-coated" and second is taking responsibility to express your grievances on your own and not through an intermediary (parents).

    So I could absolutely see Coach K saying "Am I lying?" to a parent or a player. He is going to tell you what he thinks, even more so in a private setting. Would he also be a bit irritated himself if he were explaining a situation to a parent rather than to the player? Of course because the issue is between a player and a coach.

    Semi actually seemed to recognize this in his comments about not being able to turn off the rest of his day and focus at practice.

    Now as a parent I most definitely want the best for my kids and will stick up for them if I feel they are being unfairly treated. However, you also need to assess the situation and at Duke, Coach K is building relationships with the players and wants them to stick up for themselves. Any parent walking into Coach K's office to plead the case for their son might well get a hostile reception. That does not mean Coach K is not concerned about the player.

  17. #17
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    I believe the reporter may have taken some liberties with what ever conversations he had with the Ojeleye family.truth stretched to provide sensationalism. I'm sure that isn't the way it all happened. semi's own accounts don't mesh with that story.
    you see parents all the time proclaiming their child the next star in any sport you choose.(drives me nuts) .very few are right.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    Also possible that their interpretation of what happened is different than how someone else might of interpreted it, for some of the reasons you mention at the beginning of your post. Certainly potential for some cultural misunderstandings. In other words, there may be no (intentional) embellishment on the part of the family, but Duke/Coach K might still be able to truthfully dispute the events as described. Just to add a third possibility.

    To me it seems like K possibly got annoyed with the line of discussion (and it was not the first time the discussion was had) and probably responded as such. And that annoyance/frustration may well have been interpreted as rage by the family. But only the folks in the room know for sure.
    This may be the case more so than I first realized. I was just talking to a co-worker of mine about this article. He's is a UNC grad and is from Africa and he had read about it this morning. He said her kneeling during the argument was a cultural thing. It meant that she was showing respect to coach K's position, and also, that she was coming in peace, not looking for a fight. In his opinion though, Coack K must have really been aggressive for her to feel she needed to go to that move to make peace.

    But like you said, I wasn't there, so who knows how it really went down.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    Well, as far 2014-15 goes, I'm pretty sure no one outside of Semi's parents believe things should have been done differently.
    At the risk of having this derail into the age old discussion of the short bench and/or the OAD...Semi is one of the players that I thought should have been given more court time. When you have a OAD and a less skilled player who's going to be here multiple years there's a balance between winning games and getting court time for the multi-year player. I thought that was something we did rather poorly this past season as well.

    I'm happy for Semi, wish he would have stuck it out at Duke. I think he would have been successful here as well. It's bothersome that his parents report so poorly on communication with our coaching staff. I also caught the line in the article about the older Duke players not communicating well with the younger players (of course we've solved that now by not having older players).

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by elvis14 View Post
    At the risk of having this derail into the age old discussion of the short bench and/or the OAD...Semi is one of the players that I thought should have been given more court time. When you have a OAD and a less skilled player who's going to be here multiple years there's a balance between winning games and getting court time for the multi-year player. I thought that was something we did rather poorly this past season as well.

    I'm happy for Semi, wish he would have stuck it out at Duke. I think he would have been successful here as well. It's bothersome that his parents report so poorly on communication with our coaching staff. I also caught the line in the article about the older Duke players not communicating well with the younger players (of course we've solved that now by not having older players).
    I agree with everything here. Semi was a product of getting "recruited over". Semi's sophomore year in 2014-15 came with competing with Amile Jefferson and Justise Winslow. No way Semi gets minutes over those guys. And if he stuck around in 2015-16, he'd compete against a senior Jefferson and a freshman Ingram. No one Semi plays over them. And as a senior in 2016-17, Semi would compete with Amile Jefferson, Jayson Tatum, and Harry Giles.

    And yes, Coach K would absolutely still go after Ingram, Giles, and Tatum with Semi on board. Coach K would be foolish not to.

    Semi absolutely made the right move by transferring. He would have been the poster child for "recruiting over".
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

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