How About Reason to Discuss the Merits of OAD?

[BD80]

calipari asks NBAPA to eliminate OAD.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...-and-done-era/


Maybe we can cleanse all other threads of OAD discussion and move it here.

[MCFinARL]

calipari asks NBAPA to eliminate OAD.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...-and-done-era/


Maybe we can cleanse all other threads of OAD discussion and move it here.

Yes, and then we can take this thread and drop it in the bottom of the ocean.

Seriously, I like the concept, but I doubt we can all exercise the self-restraint to keep from turning every thread into either a discussion of the merits of OAD or a discussion of minutes.

[cruxer]

Nice idea, but OAD is such an overwhelming influence in MBB that almost any off-season thread would have reason to touch on it. There's another thread about the commission report that's due Wednesday. Another good reason to discuss OAD! Recruiting? OAD! Who will win next year? OAD!

[drummerdevil]

FWIW, the take I got on the Calipari article was that he wants players to have to stick around longer, and I’m pretty sure that it’s because Cal is jealous he isn’t getting the top recruits anymore and doesn’t want anyone to have them if he doesn’t get them. Did I miss anything?

[Troublemaker]

FWIW, the take I got on the Calipari article was that he wants players to have to stick around longer, and I’m pretty sure that it’s because Cal is jealous he isn’t getting the top recruits anymore and doesn’t want anyone to have them if he doesn’t get them. Did I miss anything?

College basketball coaches have to be salesmen. Whether Calipari in his heart wants OAD or doesn't want OAD, the outward image he has to project is of someone who doesn't want OAD and wants players to be able to go straight to the league out of high school. He's on their side, in other words. That's the main driver of his comments, imo, and it'll be hard to find any power conference coach who is on record as supporting forcing players to go to college.

[weezie]

Perhaps an OAD Vigil is in order?

What was really behind the FBI investigations anyway? Tax evasion on the big wigs and connecting influence peddling to the shoe companies? The money paid to college players was peanuts.

Now that the G League is announcing "big" pay bumps for players, it's going to sway middling talent out of college far more so than the top prospects who might still want the chance to get national teevee exposure and up their draft value at the big programs while living in relative comfort. That's a bit different than the college baseball arrangement with MLB.

[elvis14]

I never really liked the OAD rule but I was more or less apathetic about it until we started to lose more and more of our players. Taking the temperature on the board, I don't think I'm in the minority. Losing guys like Tyus, Frank and Harry prior to this year and then losing our entire starting lineup (instead of just GA) this year has really effected how I feel about the OAD. And how I feel about it affects greatly what I think about it. When other teams were losing guys to the NBA, I didn't feel it and I didn't care. Now I feel it, it feels like crap and I don't like it.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I never really liked the OAD rule but I was more or less apathetic about it until we started to lose more and more of our players. Taking the temperature on the board, I don't think I'm in the minority. Losing guys like Tyus, Frank and Harry prior to this year and then losing our entire starting lineup (instead of just GA) this year has really effected how I feel about the OAD. And how I feel about it affects greatly what I think about it. When other teams were losing guys to the NBA, I didn't feel it and I didn't care. Now I feel it, it feels like crap and I don't like it.

In fairness, a lot of us predicted we were going to lose our 5 starters this year and most certainly Tatum and Giles last year. I was expecting Bolden on bounce and Frank to stay. I got the two reversed.

I have no problem with OADs; I even think it's more fun to follow them in the NBA. I mean, look how many alums we have in the playoffs!

However, there is no question that I do not have as much of an emotional attachment to these players, which likely lowers my overall interest in Duke basketball (which is probably a good thing). I loved the Redicks, Scheyers, Nolan Smiths, and Cooks of the world. It was so much more fun when you could see players develop from bench/role players to All-Americans. And for our returning players, I just kinda feel bad (referencing Bolden and DeLaurier). They are recruited over, which does make complete strategic sense because there are better players available (so why wouldn't you recruit better players?).

I'm excited about RJ, Cam, and Zion, but moreso because they are incredible talents rather than watching them develop. It's just a change in priority from focusing so heavily on OADs.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I have no problem with OADs; I even think it's more fun to follow them in the NBA. I mean, look how many alums we have in the playoffs!

I think "former players" is a better description than "alums" as, to my knowledge, none of these former players have graduated. I know Kyrie says that he plans to but one year of classes doesn't get you very far towards a degree, and by being a part of successful teams making deep playoff runs, he hasn't had much opportunity to take summer classes.

I really dislike the idea of OAD and hope it is eliminated as soon as possible. If you want to go to school, go to school. If you don't, don't. But don't force people to go to school when they don't have any desire to be there. I'm not saying this applies to our OADs, just the concept in general.

I admire that Coach K and Duke always want to be the best at everything and there are many players who arrive with every intention to stay for a few years and then get an offer they can't refuse from the NBA, but I am not a fan of OAD and though I love seeing the superstars pass through Durham every year, my love of Duke basketball that started well before I matriculated at the university is not what it once was. And though I greatly enjoy following recruiting, I do not enjoy the annual need to have a perfect class because the cupboard is bare - so far it has worked out really well for us, but that could change very quickly.

I have mixed feelings about whether the plan to replace OAD should require this who matriculate to be required to stay for a few years or not. But either way, I think that after a few years of everything sorting itself out, most players will end up either going straight to the NBA or sticking around for a few years.

Now get off my lawn...

[Sir Stealth]

I think "former players" is a better description than "alums" as, to my knowledge, none of these former players have graduated. I know Kyrie says that he plans to but one year of classes doesn't get you very far towards a degree, and by being a part of successful teams making deep playoff runs, he hasn't had much opportunity to take summer classes.

By technical definition you are an alum from the first day you attend classes. You don't have to graduate to be an alumnus/a, just attend a school, so even current students are alumni. Kyrie would be an alum even if he played even fewer games than he did and never again set foot in North Carolina other than to play the Hornets.

Edit: I acknowledge that the technical definition does not necessarily match the way that the term is generally used/understood, but I think especially in the context of players going on to the NBA that it's correct to call them "alumni" even if they aren't Duke "graduates."

[CrazyNotCrazie]

By technical definition you are an alum from the first day you attend classes. You don't have to graduate to be an alumnus/a, just attend a school, so even current students are alumni. Kyrie would be an alum even if he played even fewer games than he did and never again set foot in North Carolina other than to play the Hornets.

Edit: I acknowledge that the technical definition does not necessarily match the way that the term is generally used/understood, but I think especially in the context of players going on to the NBA that it's correct to call them "alumni" even if they aren't Duke "graduates."

Thanks - I did not know that. My apologies to the original poster for the correction, though the rest of my comments still apply.

[Sir Stealth]

Thanks - I did not know that. My apologies to the original poster for the correction, though the rest of my comments still apply.

I actually went to the DAA bylaws out of curiosity (since I believe that any alumni association can set it's own requirements for membership) and found:

3.1 Qualifications. Members of this Association are all persons who have
completed at least two consecutive semesters of work towards a degree
from Duke University or its predecessor Trinity College.

https://alumni.duke.edu/bylaws

Hopefully even our OAD players are following through enough in their second semesters to qualify.

[NSDukeFan]

By technical definition you are an alum from the first day you attend classes. You don't have to graduate to be an alumnus/a, just attend a school, so even current students are alumni. Kyrie would be an alum even if he played even fewer games than he did and never again set foot in North Carolina other than to play the Hornets.

Edit: I acknowledge that the technical definition does not necessarily match the way that the term is generally used/understood, but I think especially in the context of players going on to the NBA that it's correct to call them "alumni" even if they aren't Duke "graduates."

Do you have to actually attend the classes on that first day, or just be enrolled in courses. Asking for a school.

[Reilly]

Do you have to actually attend the classes on that first day, or just be enrolled in courses. Asking for a school.

Those schools could follow the 'how much vermouth in a martini?' rule advocated by some -- where you just have the person wave in the classroom's general direction, and that's sufficient.

[Troublemaker]

And though I greatly enjoy following recruiting, I do not enjoy the annual need to have a perfect class because the cupboard is bare - so far it has worked out really well for us, but that could change very quickly.

I'm not sure why this would be a negative for you, though. If Duke happens to strike out on OAD recruits, then we would fill out the class with non-OAD players, which theoretically would be viewed as a positive. I mean, we're going to field a roster of 10-13 scholarship players every season regardless; it's just a matter of how many of those players are OADs.

That's why I've always advised not getting too bothered by the OAD era. It's impossible for Duke to continue recruiting at the level we're recruiting, and any slip in recruiting power will cause the "reset" into a more normal program (i.e. one that doesn't have multiple freshmen leave for the draft every year) that people theoretically desire. Now, would that first season after the reset potentially be relatively painful in terms of wins and losses? Maybe. But everyone keeps saying they miss the days when they could watch players develop and improve over more than one season. The proof will be in the pudding. Part of that process is watching the players struggle early in their careers.

[SoCalDukeFan]

I never really liked the OAD rule but I was more or less apathetic about it until we started to lose more and more of our players. Taking the temperature on the board, I don't think I'm in the minority. Losing guys like Tyus, Frank and Harry prior to this year and then losing our entire starting lineup (instead of just GA) this year has really effected how I feel about the OAD. And how I feel about it affects greatly what I think about it. When other teams were losing guys to the NBA, I didn't feel it and I didn't care. Now I feel it, it feels like crap and I don't like it.

I am not sure we have "lost" many to the NBA because of the one and done rule. Many of those who left Duke after one year would have gone straight to the NBA out of high school. Its really more like we "found" a year of Bagley, Carter etc. because of the rule. I think most, but not all, of those who left Duke recently after a year fit into that category.

I don't like the rule at all but with the rule I don't see what else K can do Obviously some players are ready for the NBA after high school so why force them to wait a year? If you are Coach K are you not going to recruit the Marvin Bagley's of the world because you will only have him for a year? And maybe have to play against him for a year? What would be the outcry here if Coach K had said before the early signing period that he was not going to offer a scholarship to Barrett, Williamson, Reddish and Jones because there was too high a likelihood that each would be here a year?

SoCal

[elvis14]

However, there is no question that I do not have as much of an emotional attachment to these players, which likely lowers my overall interest in Duke basketball (which is probably a good thing). I loved the Redicks, Scheyers, Nolan Smiths, and Cooks of the world. It was so much more fun when you could see players develop from bench/role players to All-Americans. And for our returning players, I just kinda feel bad (referencing Bolden and DeLaurier). They are recruited over, which does make complete strategic sense because there are better players available (so why wouldn't you recruit better players?).

I'm excited about RJ, Cam, and Zion, but moreso because they are incredible talents rather than watching them develop. It's just a change in priority from focusing so heavily on OADs.

That first paragraph above describes me and other people I have talked to quite well. For me, I want that emotional attachment, it's a big part of being a fan. After what happened the last 2 years (7 OAD players), I have to admit, I'm not yet excited about RJ, Cam and Zion. I'm more excited for AOC, Jack, Javin, Goldwire and Bolden.

I really dislike the idea of OAD and hope it is eliminated as soon as possible. If you want to go to school, go to school. If you don't, don't. But don't force people to go to school when they don't have any desire to be there. I'm not saying this applies to our OADs, just the concept in general.

Now get off my lawn...

Another paragraph that I agree with. Fix the G-League and give players a viable option other than pretending to be college students.

[Matches]

Another paragraph that I agree with. Fix the G-League and give players a viable option other than pretending to be college students.

I'm not sure there's really a way to fix the G-League that makes it a viable option for the MBIIIs of the world. No matter how you configure it, the G-League will always be the minor leagues. If guys are ready to play in the NBA, let them play in the NBA.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I'm not sure why this would be a negative for you, though. If Duke happens to strike out on OAD recruits, then we would fill out the class with non-OAD players, which theoretically would be viewed as a positive. I mean, we're going to field a roster of 10-13 scholarship players every season regardless; it's just a matter of how many of those players are OADs.

That's why I've always advised not getting too bothered by the OAD era. It's impossible for Duke to continue recruiting at the level we're recruiting, and any slip in recruiting power will cause the "reset" into a more normal program (i.e. one that doesn't have multiple freshmen leave for the draft every year) that people theoretically desire. Now, would that first season after the reset potentially be relatively painful in terms of wins and losses? Maybe. But everyone keeps saying they miss the days when they could watch players develop and improve over more than one season. The proof will be in the pudding. Part of that process is watching the players struggle early in their careers.

The 2017-2018 roster is a perfect example of the risks involved. Let me preface my comments by saying that I have no idea what was going on behind the scenes and our confidence level regarding signing different players. And no one can be certain of the cause and effect of one guy leaving influencing another to show up, and vice versa.

Tatum and Giles were guaranteed to leave the prior team. By the end of the season, it was highly certain that Luke was leaving, and that was not influenced at all by who we were signing. Grayson was up in the air. Jackson was the one wild card. Duval signed shortly after Jackson hired an agent, so one could argue that we basically traded Jackson for Duval.

But let's say that this didn't influence Duval to come to Duke. By then it is mid-May and there aren't a lot of players available who we would have felt comfortable playing major minutes. And let's say that Bagley isn't able to reclassify. I don't think any of us would have been very happy with this year's team if it didn't include Duval and Bagley. Those are the chances one takes in the one and done era, and fortunately it has worked out thus far. And this is also why Coach K is paid a lot more than I am - to calculate the risk and probability of different guys signing and hopefully hedging himself as much as possible. But occasionally even the best risk manager or trader has things blow up.

[elvis14]

I'm not sure there's really a way to fix the G-League that makes it a viable option for the MBIIIs of the world. No matter how you configure it, the G-League will always be the minor leagues. If guys are ready to play in the NBA, let them play in the NBA.

I agree about sending the MBIII's of the world directly to the NBA. The very top prospects don't need the G-League. But what about guys like Frank and Tyus or any one of the 100+ guys who have declared early? There are 60 draft spots for those guys (plus seniors and international players). Yes, the G-League will always be the minor leagues and that's exactly that the NBA needs is a proper, well funded minor league.